Tires, revisited.

[Deacon Patrick]

Finding a plush do everything tire is a challenge. Based on what is on the market today I would have an easier time in a smaller wheel size than 700c. The balance between volume v. weight and road v. trail will depend on you and the riding you do.

This has been a fascinating summer, riding Compass’ Snoqualmie 44mm el tires instead of my Schwalbe 2.1” Racing Ralph performance (no flat protection) tires. I just switched from the Snoqualmies to the Racing Ralphs yesterday because I shredded the rear Snoqualmie. Trail crews churned up the MUP that connects me to the back road that connects me to Woodland Park. Detrious accumulates on the MUP from Highway 24 right next door and up hill. Normally not a big deal as it either gets pushed off the path or dug in under the path with time. But fresh churned areas? PBffffffffffffft! Two flats in two two days. More than I’ve ever had except when they churn up the MUP each year. I should avoid it for a week or two. But I can’t. It’s the one way I can take to get to Woodland Park and other rides. So, I’d rather ride my $20 a tire (I got them on sale) Racing Ralphs than my $80 a tire Snoqualmie. Can’t blame the tire, but I also know the RR’s are more likely to survive a hit than the Snoqualmies. Yesterday's ride on the same road and trails gave me another direct comparison between the two, this time with two months riding experience on the Snoqualmies and a year on the Racing Ralphs.

In plushness, they are nearly identical, for the Racing Ralph makes up in volume the bit it’s short in sidewall suppleness. What does nearly mean? The RRs handle rocks and roots and wash board better but the general feel is equal.

Handling: again, the strengths and weaknesses nearly balance out here, at least in dry(ish) conditions. Snoqualmies are fleet and smooth. Fast and easy climbing and surprisingly grippy, they track a smoother line (I’m unsure why this is). RR’s do not require underbiking on trails. This makes for a smoother ride on descents, but they require more effort to climb because of the 29er big tire inertia law of physics.

The “cross” tire between these two, and the one I may go to next year as my summer tire is the Thunder Burt. I just nee to find a sale on the “no protection” version because the other versions are not supple enough for this "princess and the pea.” Grin.

Conclusion: I love the Compass Snoqualmie and wish there was a higher volume option available for those of us riding all terrains with 700c. Yet the overall “price” I pay shifting to the Racing Ralphs is small, and I gain a lot of confidence in wet and/or loose surface conditions. Next year, if I shift to a summer tire, it will likely be the Thunder Burt.

With abandon,
Patrick

www.CredoFamily.org
www.MindYourHeadCoop.org

[Jay Connolly]

Patrick, I have a similar issue, though a different use for the tires. I am going to be using my Joe as a hauler/commuter and so I want a tire that will make flats rare. I use the Snoqualmie Pass tires right now, but flats are inevitable with those tires, and I'd rather avoid the hassle on this particular bike.The problem is, I'm so spoiled by the ride of these tires that I'm loathe to use something that's going to feel sluggish. I have a set of Schwalbe Almotion 700 x 50s, but they weigh about 800 grams each, I believe, and both tires wobble on the rims. (After a similarly wobbly Kojaks a couple of years ago, I think I'm done with Schwalbe. Seems to be a common complaint.) I may go with the Clement Xplor 700 x 50.

Jay

[Conway Bennett]

Have you looked at the new soma cazadero in 700x50? It splits the difference between the compass and schwalbes you are currently using. I too have been on a tire walk about. I'm thinking the sweet spot for me would be Bruce Gordon R&Rs on my Quickbeam and the new Soma Shikoros in 700x48 on my Sam H. with Schwalbe Marathon Mondials in 28x1.75 as my tank treads.

[Christopher Cote]

Soma now offers the Supple Vitesse in 700x48. That should be worth a try.

Chris

[Mark in Beacon]

I would highly recommend getting removable core inner tubes and squirting in some orange seal. I've had zero flats on my RTP with this method, decent amount of mileage, all sorts of rough stuff. Maybe I would not have had a flat anyway, but worth a try if you are getting flats to see if it brings the number down.

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks for this useful comparison, which makes me want to swap out my Fur Freds for the Snoqualmie Pass, el of course, and tubeless.

What do your SP's actually measure in width? And on how wide a rim?

And, would you say that the Thunder Burts are closer in performance and feel to the SPs than to the RRs?

+ 1 for a 700C version of the Rat Trap Pass!

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[Patrick Moore]

Yes indeed to Orange Seal. I've blathered about it enough, but it makes possible the use of "fragile" tires that otherwise would be impossible due to flats; be it put in tubes (at least, above 30-35 psi; it wouldn't work for me in tubes at 20 or so) or of course tubeless.

Oh, and Patrick: what pressures do you find best for the Snoqualmie Passes for your combination of pavement and rough stuff? (I find ~23/26 good for the 50 mm F Freds here, but might go to 25-6/28-30 for rockier and rootier terrain.

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[Jay Connolly]

Patrick, I've been running Snoqualmie Pass tires on both my Joe and my Sam. They run 42mm on DT Swiss TK540 rims and 43mm on Mavic A719s. Both rims have an internal width of 19mm, I believe, and the difference may be nothing more than the time the tires have been on the rims. I've had them on the Sam for a shorter period of time.

Jay

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Jay. So, on my 27/35 mm Blunts, they should measure their full 44 mm -- that's 7 mm less than the F Freds. But the additional suppleness (tho' the F Freds weigh between the 2 SP models) might make up for that.

Sheesh, something else to spend money on ...

On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 8:58 AM, Jay Connolly <jayco...@gmail.com> wrote:

Patrick, I've been running Snoqualmie Pass tires on both my Joe and my Sam. They run 42mm on DT Swiss TK540 rims and 43mm on Mavic A719s. Both rims have an internal width of 19mm, I believe, and the difference may be nothing more than the time the tires have been on the rims. I've had them on the Sam for a shorter period of time.

Jay

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[Jay Connolly]

I haven't ridden the Fred's, but I'm not sure how much you'll gain in the swap. It's my understanding that the FF is a 300g tire with no protection. I assume that the low weight comes, in part, from a thin and supple sidewall.

Jay

[Chris Lampe 2]

I've found the Maxxis Torch 29 to be a really nice tire.  It's close to the Big Apple in it's tread so I'm sure it has limitations in the dirt.  

[Patrick Moore]

Someone who has used both F Freds (in the 26" size) and the Rat Traps, pretty much back to back, said that the RTs were a distinct improvement as to rolling resistance -- ie, they are faster. 

I'll not switch any time soon, unless Compass comes out with a 700C X 50 mm version of the RTP.

On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 9:06 AM, Jay Connolly <jayco...@gmail.com> wrote:

I haven't ridden the Fred's, but I'm not sure how much you'll gain in the swap. It's my understanding that the FF is a 300g tire with no protection. I assume that the low weight comes, in part, from a thin and supple sidewall.

Jay

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