Comparing Rivendell Bikes to the old Bridgestones: Has anyone here experienced both a Rambouillet and an RB-T?

[Nathan Mattia]

Has anyone here ridden both the Rambouillet AND an RB-T? 
Looking at it’s geometry, the RB-T is very similar to geometry of a Rivendell Rambouillet, more than a Hillborne or a Homer. 

My RB-T is 56cm, so that's what I'm comparing and I was struck by the similarities to the Rambouillet.  Note the level top-tube, similar Standover heights, Seat-tube and Head-tube angles,  bottom bracket drop, and chainstay lengths.  Do they ride similarly?  I don’t know.  But they look almost the same.

 In Rivendell Reader 32 from the Spring of 2004, Grant Petersen recalls his time at Bridgestone and makes these proclamations:

“Set up a scale from 1 to 100, and let’s agree to call our current Rivendell customs a 100, and a Magna (department store) mountain bike a 5.

The high-end Bstones were 45s, and the middle ones were 35s. [Let’s call an RB-T a “40” then, in Grant’s estimation]. Comparably priced production bikes in the late ‘80s and ‘90s were in the low 30s. Some of the better production bikes in the early ‘80s—especially ’81 through ’85 (Specialized Expedition, Sequoia, Centurion Dave Scott, Miyata 600)—were in the low 50s, about 55. The Toyo-built bikes are 87s. “  

Given this scale, I’d actually put the RB-T closer to a 75.  It's that good. 
If Grant wanted to place it in the Riv lineup today and move it up to an 87, he’d just add 2 cm to the stays, put more eyelets on the frame for racks and give it slightly bigger tire clearances.

Here’s what I know:  I like the flexiness of the RB-T frame.  I like how quickly it gets up to speed.  I like to push it around downhill curves.  It is NOT the work of art that is my Rivendell Sam Hillborne.   I take Samwise when I want to forget about the effort of the ride and become one with the beauty all around me.  I take the RB-T when I want to go fast and become one with my bike.

[Patrick Moore]

I've not ridden an RBT, but I have extensively ridden a blue-model (later one, I think, with more tire clearance) Ram and I think you'll find it spritely. Mine didn't "plane" for me that way that the best frames I've ridden have*, but it didn't at all feel sluggish in acceleration or for that matter handling, tho' I did prefer the slightly quicker turn-in of my 26" wheel road bikes.

I don't know the tubing specs, but I doubt they were especially thick-walled.

*I use "planing" provisionally; in my case it might not be planing as Jan describes it; it's just that some bikes encourage "1 cog smaller". The Ram didn't, but again, it didn't ever feel as if it held me back.

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[Nathan Mattia]

I had a 1992 50cm RB-T that was too small for me, no matter what I did to it.  It was my first Bridgestone.  It felt neither lively, nor spritely.  

But for some reason, this 56cm RB-T (same year) most definitely feels supple.  I haven't ridden enough to know if it's planing or not, but my guess would be no. It's just a lot faster than my Hillborne and my Expedition.   Both were 700c wheels with stock parts.  It may be counter-intuitive, but I think the larger frame helps with the feel.  

It's just interesting to me that the 92 Bridgestone Catalog describes the RB-T as being their Road-ish fire-trail capable bike, pretty much just like Riv is describing a Sam Hillborne now.  But the bikes are not the same.

I would like to try a Ram sometime, or even a Roadini.  I think I would still want Moustache bars, though.  I can't stand the posture of drops.

[Matt B.]

I have a '91 62cm RBT and agree it feels more sprite than my Rivendells, maybe with the exception of the 64cm Quickbeam.  I attribute the RBT's liveliness to standard diameter tubing (1" TT, 1 1/8" DT), since I have the same feeling on any the bikes I've owned or still own from the 80's when they all had this tubing diameter.   In smaller sizes like ~50cm I think the flexibility of the narrower tubing gets swallowed up by the compactness of the front triangle.

Matt

[Fullylugged]

Considering that the same person designed the RB-T and the Rambouillet within a few years of each other and they were both Japanese production, similarities in some respects are to be expected. Ram has a sloped TT, and uses heat treated material for the downtube and chainstays while the RB-T does not. The Ram feels stiffer but not unpleasantly so.  The differences in HT angle are enough to notice in handling characteristics. Ram is a neutral steerer that tracks though turns like it is on rails. Ram has 132.5 OLD to accept either road or mountain hubs. It can be set up with road wheels and 25mm Contis for a fast club ride, or CX wheels with 1 1/2" Paselas for Townie, cruiser, or country road riding. It does both well.  I ride mustache bars on mine and like them when canted for comfortable grip although in the past the bike had Nitto Noodles.  The RB-T is more roadish, sharper cornering, and at 126 OLD, intended for freewheel equipment. It's easy to spread the stays and pop a 130 road hub in there.  I found that I wasn't riding my Bridgestone much compared to the Ram so I sold it some years ago.

[Nathan Mattia]

Matt--That's an interesting theory about the smaller frames not flexing as much.  It's kind of what I figured.  I took the RB-T out this morning for 20 minutes and man, it just cycles up to speed so quickly for me compared to my 650b Sam with Fatty Rumpkins.

Bruce--Good to hear from someone who has ridden both!!  I had always assumed the Ram was a level TT but looking at the pics with that in mind, I see it now, though it is not nearly as pronounced as my generation of Hillborne.  

I also hadn't taken into account the rear spacing differences and what that means for tire choices.