Un-racer advice needed

[Michael]

I have a compact crankset that came on the Bleriot with 36/50 rings. I spend 95% of my time in the small ring because my area is rolling terrain and I am just not strong enough to stay in the big ring for very long around here.

So my question is:

 

Does one need to train to be strong enough to stay in the big ring alot?

 

I am under the impression that people stay in the big ring and only drop to the small ring for climbs. I am average size and build. What am I missing?

[Scott Henry]

What are you using in the rear?  What terrain do you ride in?  How fast to you go?

 

36/50 is sort of the new compact standard, which is still geared towards "fast/sport" riders.  

With my standard cassette (12x28), I tend to like compacts in the 34/46 range.  

Scott

 

 

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[Garth]

You're not missing anything Michael .  You ride .... as you ride.  There is no standard "way" or method to ride a bike !  

The "impression" of riders riding in the big ring most of the time .... may be true for a racing cyclist who's sole goal is to ride as fast as possible at any cost, but "they" are not "you".  Only you decide for you and celebrate that.

[PATRICK MOORE]

The first question is, does it make any real difference to you? That is, is there any good reason why you might want to use the big ring more, if the small is working for you?

That said, one can certainly change one's pedaling style and, therefore, preferred gearing. 20 years ago, in my late 30s, I regularly used my 36t or 38 t middle rings as my cruising rings, with preferred cruising gears about 65", in which I comfortably spun at 110-120 to maintain 20-23 mph on the flats. 

Now, at just-about-58, I am far slower and I prefer cruising gears from 70" to 75" to cruise at 17-19 mph on the flats at no more than 90 rpm. What's more, I also now prefer to climb in much higher gears at much lower cadences: I'd rather push at 50-60 rpm at 60" to 65" to maintain 10-13 mph on hills than twiddle a 40" gear at 90 rpm.

But unless you are for some reason dissatisfied with your riding, I don't see any need to change anything. After all, 36 t rings are pretty cheap to replace.

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[Michael]

Sorry, its a 34/50 crankset with 12-27 10-speed in the rear.

I ride on well maintained roads with rolling terrain. Short hill after short hill after short hill. Throw in a few long hills. Not many flats. And most flats are tilted up or down.

Usually I do about 15 mph. I just stay on the outer cogs for the flats and spin out on the downhills with the inner chainring. The 34 inner ring is not low enough for some the longer climbs.

 

 I had a triple before this bike. I stayed in the 39 tooth middle ring for 95% of the time. Dropped to the small ring for climbs. I think when this Bleriot's drivetrain is shot, I may go with a triple.

 

BTW:

Sorry if this is a little OT, but I wanted to hear ideas from fellow un-racers, and Riv-riders.

 

[Scott Henry]

I probably should have asked about the rear derailuer too, but why not swap out to a bigger cassette? 

 

Nashbar has a Shimano SLX 11-32 for fifty buck right now.

 

 

 

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[Michael]

@Patrick:

 

I guess my dissatisfaction is with the 34 ring being not low enough for climbs, while being too low for downhills. The big ring being too big for everything but downhills for me.

 

This drivetrain has been well used, and I think I will have to replace cogs/chainrings/and chain all at once when I need to. So I am starting to think about if I want to go compact next time, or just get a triple. I think a triple will be best.

[Jim Mather]

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Michael <john1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I guess my dissatisfaction is with the 34 ring being not low enough for
> climbs, while being too low for downhills. The big ring being too big for
> everything but downhills for me.

Triples are fine. I like sub-compact doubles -- I use a 46/30 on a
mostly road bike, and I use a 36/24 on a bike that goes on the trails
a lot. Both are triple cranks with rings in the middle and granny
position.

jim m
wc ca

[Jeremy Till]

I say, if you're rarely using the big ring, then it's too big!  Make the bike fit your riding style, don't change your riding style or feel like you have to "train" to use it properly.  That's part of the un-racer ethos, isn't it?

Go for a smaller big ring!  It's a relatively cheap mod to do.  I prefer a 48t big ring on my compact double for flat to rolling terrain (which puts me in the middle of my cassette), but I wouldn't be afraid to try even smaller--46, 44, or even 42t, if that's what lets you use it for more of the time. 

Don't forget to (or have a pro wrench) re-adjust your front derailleur father down the seattube to match the smaller big ring, or else your front shifting performance will be degraded.

[PATRICK MOORE]

OK, I get it. If I were in your position -- big ring not much use, middle ring good for cruising but lacking the highs and lows needed -- I'd carefully consider a wide range double, though this might mean finagling your cassette to a custom pattern. On my Fargo I recently switched to a 38/24 with (Big Apple wheelset) 13-15-16-17-19-22-26-34 8 speed cassette. Since the 38 is actually in the middle position for a triple (I've got a chain guard on the outer ring position) this allows me to use the 38 with the full cassette and gives me a high of 85", cruising gears of 69", 64", and 58" (the drop from 64" to 58" is particularly useful on dirt roads), dirt rollers gears of 58", 50", and 42", and a low on the big ring of 32" which is low enough to get me up most hills. The 24 takes care of anything else. I could reduce the jumps by going 9 speed, but I don't really care for the kind of riding I do.

Or do what I did to the Fargo before: 46/36/24 and a 7 sp 16-18-20-22-24-28-34 (29" wheels) that let me go from 83" down to 48" on the 46 and down to 31" on the 36. (I switched because, on dirt, I too often had to shift between 46 and 36 to stay in the dirt road gear range of 65" down to 40". But a large like that ought to be useful to you, and you could leave the middle for hills. 

Patrick "A custom cassette is merely parts for building a better one of your own" Moore

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[Toshi Takeuchi]

I wouldn't consider myself a "weak" rider, but I have no shame in
wanting and needing a triple crank on all my bikes--not only triples,
but compact triples with 24-38-48 or similar. Even on my go faster
bike, I like to do hills with 15%+ grades and have a much more
enjoyable time on my 24 crank than a 30 or 34 crank. Maybe if I were
20 years younger, then I could go with a 46-30, but I would imagine
it's all downhill from here and I am more likely to need lower gears
as I age :).

Toshi

[Ron Mc]

have you been through a gear calculator?  http://sheldonbrown.com/gears/  

put in the gears you know you're keeping, include the 50 chainring first, then vary the 50 (smaller) and check the results.  If you find a chainring size that gives you more useful gears and few overlaps, it's worth swapping out the big chainring to something (not randomly) smaller.  

[Lynne Fitz]

I have the Sugino triple on both my Riv and my Sweetpea (both are rando bikes, but the Sweetpea is getting the distance love now).  12-27 in back.  I spend very little time on the big ring.  I climb in the small ring.  Depends on your fitness level.  My riding partner climbs in the middle ring, but he's really, really strong.

[Garth]

I doubt it's worth changing a big ring from 50 to 46 if you ride in the 36 most of the time, it's just not worth it. And the difference between the 46 and 50 is essentially a half step. If you're running more than 7 cogs , the point becomes more moot.   If your 50 was needing replacing, that'd be the time to change it, or if you REALLY need those half steps, but as I said, with 7-10 speed cogs there's more than enough gears for recreational riding.  Even racing really .... it's not like the racers of yore suffered a lack of speed from gear choices ... lol. 

It's all mental and emotional anyways ... lol.   All of it.  Enjoy the be-ing.  BE-ing the bike, the ride ... all of "This" .  :)

[William]

I'm running a 44/30 double with a 12-27 9sp cassette on my raciest bike.  My days of running a 50T ring are over.  

On Wednesday, January 16, 2013 9:49:57 AM UTC-8, Michael wrote:

[Steve Palincsar]

Speaking of big rings and little rings without considering either the
number of teeth on the chain rings or the number of teeth on the
sprocket being used leads to nothing but confusion. Gear charts are
called for here.

Figure out the gear inches (or development) you as a rider need for the
various types of hills in your riding area, then figure out an effective
and efficient way to get that gear, considering issues such as chain
line, where the crossovers occur, how low a low and how high a high you
need, etc.

Here's Jan's approach:
<quote>
When I select my gearing, I think of three gears:

* Base gear: This is the gear I mostly use on flat roads when
spinning along.
* High gear: This is the largest gear that I use when I am
sprinting for a city limit sign with friends, or riding with a
powerful tailwind.
* Low gear: This is the smallest gear I need on the roads I
usually ride.

In addition to covering the range from low to high gear, a good gear
selection will do the following:

* Put the base gear in the middle of the rear freewheel/cassette,
so that I can adjust to changes in speed and terrain with a
simple shift or two in the rear.
* Provide small enough steps between gears, so that I can continue
pedaling seamlessly.

I don’t worry about duplicate gears, if they fall in the range where I
ride frequently. In fact, some overlap is not just OK, it’s desirable.
</quote>
--http://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/11/03/how-to-choose-your-chainrings/

34/50 seems to work for very strong riders, but recreational riders can
end up with gearing where the base gear is so far from the center of the
cassette a cross over in front (with attendant multiple shifts in back)
is required for even slight changes in grade. That's a recipe for
frustration. Staying on the small ring, however, can mean spending all
your time on 11, 12 and 13 tooth sprockets in back; those small
sprockets are inefficient and what's more, they wear quickly.

[René Sterental]

To the OP,

If you spend 95% of your time on the 34 or 36 front ring, why not consider the 32/40 crankset Riv sells? Sell the 34/50 and adjust the rear cassette if needed. They also have a 26/40 which would give you a wider lower range...

Don't know if this is worth doing for you...

René 

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[Joseph Hogg]

Hi Michael,

You would probably have to change crank sets, but you might consider a 40-46 large chain ring and a 26-32 small chain ring. I'd suggest 42 and 28, but I'm sure Rivendell could advise you and provide the crank and chain rings.

Joe
LA, CA

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[Jeff Lesperance]

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 12:55 PM, Scott Henry <ske...@gmail.com> wrote:

What are you using in the rear?  What terrain do you ride in?  How fast to you go?

 

36/50 is sort of the new compact standard, which is still geared towards "fast/sport" riders.  

With my standard cassette (12x28), I tend to like compacts in the 34/46 range.  

Scott

I have to agree with Scott, with the slightly rolling terrain I have around me (suburban Maryland, urban District of Columbia) and my lack of desire to cruise at absolute top-speeds, I like my big ring to be about a 46t, with some bikes running a 44 and one with a 48 - and for the most part these are paired with 12 -32 or 13 - 30 cassettes. 

 

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Michael <john1...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have a compact crankset that came on the Bleriot with 36/50 rings. I spend 95% of my time in the small ring because my area is rolling terrain and I am just not strong enough to stay in the big ring for very long around here.

So my question is:

 

Does one need to train to be strong enough to stay in the big ring alot?

 

I am under the impression that people stay in the big ring and only drop to the small ring for climbs. I am average size and build. What am I missing?

My knees just don't tolerate grinding it out on a hard gear. I like to take long rides and that means spinning as much as possible to keep the knees happy. I don't equate this to a strength issue as much as just the way my anatomy is. Even when I was in tip-top shape (which I'm not currently), I could not stand to mash the pedals in a big ring if I wanted to go for more than a few miles.

-Jeff 

[charlie]

I'll keep it simple....dump the 50 tooth and get a 44 tooth biggie.... at the same time convert to a 12-32 or 12-34 8 or 9 speed cassette. A triple using 24x34x44 is nice as is a 22x32x44 MTB crankset. My Hillborne is set up with a 24x34x44 12-28 seven and my Surly a 22x32x44 12-32 seven. I am old, fat and live in rolling/hilly country. These combos allow me to stay in the big ring for longer and the super low is great for the steep climbs and when I am tired.

On Wednesday, January 16, 2013 9:49:57 AM UTC-8, Michael wrote:

[Ted Shwartz]

I really like my 36/46 on Surley Cross Check with 12/32 for everything

On Wednesday, January 16, 2013, Tomio Tran wrote:

People are starting to realize that even compacts are geared pretty high for the average person. a 50 is fine for me if I'm going out on a serious ride or I am riding in a paceline, but for rides like the commute, I prefer going with a lower top end gear to prevent too much front shifting and cross chaining. I run a 48/34 on my commuting/trail 650B bike, and I even think I can use a 46.

On Wednesday, January 16, 2013 9:49:57 AM UTC-8, Michael wrote:

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[PATRICK MOORE]

After yesterday's fiasco on the Fargo (bumped the left shifter against a USPS counter, took it outside, mounted, stood, and immediately sucked the chain into the abyss, requiring admission into the bike shop ICU) I really, really, REALLY like the 46/16 and 46/15 on my Rivendells.

[And man, did the '03 feel fast today compared to the Fargo, even with ~15 lb in the Sackville, uphill and down.]