54.5 Homer: 700c or 650b?

[Robert Calton]

It's looking like I'll have the opportunity to purchase either bicycle within the next week or so, a 54.5 Homer in 700c or 650b. I'm 5'11" with a 83.8PBH, so spot on for both of those sizes. 

I'm curious what the wisdom of the community is in regards to making this decision, which should I consider more strongly? The price difference is negligible. They both have similar components on it (the 650 is a complete bike, the 700c I'd have to build up from a frameset and the cost is about equal for both). 

I mainly ride pavement and rail trails with the occasional wooded paths. 

Thoughts? :) 

[aeroperf]

I would think it would be all about the tires.

If you have more than one bike, what are the wheel sizes of the others?  You might want to standardize so you can swap tires.  Or if you have specific tires in mind, what size do they come in?
While there are now a lot of options for 650b tires, there are still a lot more for 700c.  If you shred a tire out on a tour, it might be easier to find a 700c to press on with.

[Bill Lindsay]

If it were me the decision is close enough that I'd probably leave it to the surrounding details of each transaction.  I'm a particularly snobby and self-absorbed curator of "builds" so that would be a huge vote in favor of the 700 because it's a frame, unless the curator of the 650b build did a lot of the things I would have done.  The effective "labor cost" of doing a build is essentially zero for me.  Is one a shop and the other a person?  That would have some weight for me.  If the shop was one that I could frequent, putting money in the register of a shop reaps benefits down the road.  If the person was one that I had particular respect for, that could tilt me a different way.  

Then there's color!  

but...if we took it to a purely hypothetical situation, and asserted they were both frames, both in identical condition, at the same price, and from the same seller, so the real and only difference was 650B vs 700, then I'd probably lean 700 because the 700 wheel on the 54.5 is "the latest", and probably has a tiny bit better future proof resale value.  If that wasn't the case and it really was completely wheel size then I'd personally probably lean 650B for a Hilsen, but it would be like a vote of 52 to 48, and my leaning may change on another day.

Both are great bikes.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Hoch in ut]

I agree with aeroperf. Both will work just fine for your usage. I’d just base it on the other bikes in your possession. It’s nice to swap tires and dynamo wheels between bikes. 

[Robert Calton]

Thanks Bill! That's helpful. The colors are the same on both offerings and the 650B's build is essentially what I would do to the 700c (with the help of my lovely LBS, of course). I'm not really too concerned with resale value, but rather the general riding experience. I suppose I could simply research the litany of 650b vs 700c threads out there to learn more about this. The geometry between the two are slightly different, however. 

The BikeInsights chart attached below shows the 700c to be quite a bit taller than the 650b, which I wonder if that translates into overall comfort with regards to standover and handling.  

[DavidP]

Robert - the geometry comparison highlights the point I was going to make that given your PBH, the 650b will likely have better standover clearance if you want to run tires at the larger end of the Homer's range.

My rough stuff road bike has disc brakes so could take either 650b or 700c wheels. Since I was wanting to run wider tires I went with 650x48 to get the extra 16mm standover in a frame size that is near the cusp of what I can clear.

That comparison shows a much larger difference in standover, as well as other differences that make it look to me like the 650b will be a better fit for your proportions.

-Dave

[Robert Calton]

@aero and @hoch: I am selling my customized Salsa Vaya 55cm (700c) to fund this purchase, and the Homer would be my only bicycle (I say that now). I don't have any specific tires in mind and I wouldn't have any other wheels to swap out. There seems to be several 42-44 tires that would fit my riding needs for 650b, and clearly a lot more for 700c. I wouldn't be doing any long touring on this where tire availability is a factor. 

[aeroperf]

All that considered, I’d say get the taller bike.
The folks at Riv do tend to put you on the tallest bike they think will clear your stand-over height.
The tiny bit extra chainstay length and wheelbase will add to the “Riv ride” feel.
And you won’t have so much seat post showing that you’ll think you've moved from a Salsa to a Brompton.

[Ahmed Elgasseir]

Hi all,

I’m curious about when the 54.5 650b is from? I thought all Rivs 54.5 Homers were 700c now. 

A

Ahmed Elgasseir

Department Chair, Visual and Performing Arts

Castilleja School

1310 Bryant Street

Palo Alto, CA 94301

P (415) 654-7977

E aelga...@castilleja.org

www.castilleja.org   

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[Piaw Na]

On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 7:56:30 AM UTC-7 nca...@gmail.com wrote:

@aero and @hoch: I am selling my customized Salsa Vaya 55cm (700c) to fund this purchase, and the Homer would be my only bicycle (I say that now). I don't have any specific tires in mind and I wouldn't have any other wheels to swap out. There seems to be several 42-44 tires that would fit my riding needs for 650b, and clearly a lot more for 700c. 

For me this is the big deal about 650b. There are basically no tires narrower than 38mm for the 650b, whereas if you want to run 28->32mm tires 700c has a huge offering.  For my wife and son commuting in suburban pavement 28->32mm is the sweet spot and 650b isn't a good option by comparison.

[Robert Calton]

@Ahmed: The 650b Homers look to be from 2019 MIT run and before. 

[Mathias Steiner]

Robert,

One consideration that hasn't come up explicitly is the rest of your stable. Do you already have other wheels in 650b? If you don't, think hard about adding a new size.

I donated the sewup wheels of my first road bike a few years back, and it was a wrench. But I had resolved to stick to one kind of tires, and that was a good decision.

I have since strayed and added one bike with 27" wheels -- easily fixed by switching to 700... and am setting up a Trek sport tourer with 650b.
If I like it, I'll get a road bike that I can ride with 700x38-42 wheels.

There's a lot to be said for keeping things simple.

cheers -m

[Cody Marvin]

I have a few bikes, including a Sam Hillborne 650b (51cm) and a Bridgestone RB-T 700c (53cm). For the kind of riding you describe I mostly ride the RB-T. I realize this isn't an exact comparison, but I've found 700x35c to be pretty ideal for pavement and rail trails, and I feel like I would probably ride the Sam more often if it was 700c. To me the Sam can feel a little sluggish at times, and I attribute that at least in part to the wheel size (this isn't universal, I have a couple other "fast" 650b bikes). I'm sure opinions are all over the place about this, and I'm not exactly trying to present an argument, but if I were in your shoes I'd go 700c.

Cody 

Chicago

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[Toshi Takeuchi]

Piaw,

There is a Grand Bois Cypres in 650b size 32 mm.  The same tire in 700c runs great on my Roadeo.  I run the extra light version (EL). 

I consider them the cheaper precursor to the Rene Herse tires and they ride great. 

Scott Davis in the 650b group purchases and distributes them in the US:

francopedia (you know the symbol)

gmail (you know the end)

He might have those in stock.  I also ride Hetre 650bx42 mm both EL and regular casing, so I sometimes order direct from Grand Bois.  The yen is still weak, and shipping is reasonable, so you can consider that route if you order multiple tires etc.

Toshi

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[Piaw Na(藍俊彪)]

Toshi that's good to know. We have only 2 650b bikes in the garage: my 8-year-old's Salsa Journeyman (shod with Pacenti Pari-Moto 38mm tires) and my wife's Santa Cruz 5010, which is a mountain bike with no need for skinny tires. The 8 year old won't take too many years to outgrow the Journeyman and will graduate to his brother's Roadini, and I'll be surprised if he puts in enough miles to wear out the Pari-Moto tires.

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[Ahmed Elgasseir]

Thank you!!! FWIW, I used to have a 650b homer and I sold it to fund another bike and I’ve regretted it ever since. 

Ahmed Elgasseir

Department Chair, Visual and Performing Arts

Castilleja School

1310 Bryant Street

Palo Alto, CA 94301

P (415) 654-7977

E aelga...@castilleja.org

www.castilleja.org   

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[Hoch in ut]

If this is your one bike, I’d say go for the 700c. You’re already used to that wheel size from the Vaya. Maybe you have some tubes and 700c parts as well. 

Additionally, I am the same height as you with a 83.3cm PBH and much prefer 700c. I like the handling and rollover when on rough roads. 

I had a Romanceur (650b) and a Hunqapillar (700c). Hunq was my favorite. 

[Drew Fitchette]

Hey Robert,

As someone with similar dimensions I'd suggest the 700c. The added height will make it much easier to get you bars up where you'd probably like them. 

I had a 53cm Atlantis from the last batch with 650b's and I had to max out the stem height being just under 6ft tall. I eventually sized up to a bigger frame with 700c wheels.

- Drew