What're the best cantilever brakes out there?

[Erik Wright]

I'm thinking about getting canti posts brazed onto my sidepull Sam Hillborne to fit a wider tire / make wide tire installation easier. Canti brakes would be replacing Paul Racers.

If I go this route, what are the best options out there? I figure top of the line is Paul, but what's a more affordable brake? I see a lot of chatter around Shimano CX70, but hear they're discontinued. Is there a comparable option available now, or does it make sense to hunt down a used set of CX70s? If I splurge on Neo Retros, am I gaining anything functionally over other options?

Thanks!

Erik, Philly

[Joe Bernard]

CX50s are still available and functionally the same as CX70. But the answer for power and ease of setup (and no cable stops at headtube and seat clamp) is linear pull 👍

[Steve Palincsar]

On 4/14/19 8:00 PM, Erik Wright wrote:

I'm thinking about getting canti posts brazed onto my sidepull Sam Hillborne to fit a wider tire / make wide tire installation easier. Canti brakes would be replacing Paul Racers.

If I go this route, what are the best options out there? I figure top of the line is Paul,

No, the top of the line is the Rene Herse cantilever.

but what's a more affordable brake? I see a lot of chatter around Shimano CX70, but hear they're discontinued. Is there a comparable option available now, or does it make sense to hunt down a used set of CX70s? If I splurge on Neo Retros, am I gaining anything functionally over other options?

Or a used set of the Shimano Deore XT wide profile cantilevers like the BR-M730

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SHIMANO-DEORE-XT-brakes-BR-m730/123718524215?hash=item1cce32dd37:g:hp0AAOSwCHBbHTSa

or this one

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-Deore-XT-Deer-Head-Cantilever-brakes-BR-MC70/123731334609?hash=item1ccef655d1:g:1b0AAOSwGHxcrrh0

?

But really, there's just nothing better than this one for a nice bike

since you can be sure the posts will be put in exactly the right place.

[Steve Palincsar]

I'd be very surprised indeed if the cx70 had more power than the Rene Herse cantilever.  The low profile design is noted for losing power as the pads get closer to the rim.

Low profile cantilevers like this are very sensitive to straddle cable adjustment, whereas mid-profile cantilevers like the Herse brake are insensitive to it.  All the complex documentation about canti adjustment is based on the low profile design's sensitivity to height of the straddle cable support.  None of that is applicable to the Herse design.

In both these cases, it should be noted, the straddle cable length isn't adjustable per se; with the Shimano style various lengths of straddle cable are available. A longer straddle cable was promised at one point for the Herse brake, for special applications, but I'm not sure if it's been made available yet, as I don't see such a thing listed on their web site. 

As for ease of setup, the Herse brake isn't like some smooth post cantilever brakes.  Yes there is one nut holding the post in place and on loosening the bolt you can slide the pad in and out, rotate it and tilt it.  But it's not quite like some, where undoing that one nut loosens everything - vertical, toe, and all the rest.  There is no vertical adjustment, and toe is set either permanently once by bending, or using a notched washer.  There also is no adjustment for spring tension.

On 4/15/19 12:59 AM, Drw wrote:

Oh man, 
Those compass ones look super nice but I’d take the setup and power of the cx70/50 any day over those any day. I’m no expert mechanic but I’ve used cantis that with the way the compass ones do and, for me, they are a big pain. At this point I

-- 
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia 
USA

[Dave Grossman]

Hey Erik,

You are going to get a million opinions but Pauls are really easier than all other canti's to setup.  The mechanism they use to control spring tension is just so easy to adjust.  I also think getting some good Kool Stop pads makes a huge difference.

[Patrick Moore]

I'm curious about others' opinions about the IRD Cafam/Cafam2. I've used a fair number of cantis, have never been able to set them up well with drop levers myself (a deficiency shared by some of the local shops I've used; so perhaps the fault lies in some of the designs), but the best brakes I can remember using were the IRDs set up by Rivendell staff with salmon Kool Stop pads on my Sam Hillborne. For power, modulation, and feel, these were near perfect -- and I have used many types and brands of brakes.

I seem to recall that adjusting pads on these IRDs was no more difficult than XT or Dia Compe cantis of the ealy 90s.

Opinions?

[Jonathan K.]

I haven't used the pricier cantilevers from Rene Herse or Paul, so I can't compare to those, but I did install a new set of CX50s on my Sam. They work great. I had been running a set of Avid V brakes, and switched solely because I wanted to use different set of levers that worked better with my Albastache bars. The CX50s were easy to set up and stop every bit as well as the v brakes they replaced. They have a much better feel at the lever, though, compared to the v brakes. 

It is my understanding that the only difference between the CX50 and CX70 are the color and the included pad holder on the CX70. So, you could essentially turn the 50 into a 70 by purchasing a pad holder after the original pads wear out.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 4/15/19 9:53 AM, Dave Grossman wrote:

Hey Erik,

You are going to get a million opinions but Pauls are really easier than all other canti's to setup.  The mechanism they use to control spring tension is just so easy to adjust.  I also think getting some good Kool Stop pads makes a huge difference.

No adjustment required and no mechanism for adjustment because none is required beats Paul's system every time.

[James / Analog Cycles]

I'll go out on a limb and commit heresy here.  The best current available Canti is a Shimano Altus or Alivio set up with Kool Stop Salmon Pads.  They're ugly, they're tough, they're harder to adjust than a CX50, but they work really well and they last forever.  If you wanna get all retro, just get some old low profile XT brakes.  Wide profile canti's do not produce as much mechanical advantage / power at the rim, and so unless you wanna buy your brakes based on looks alone, they should be discounted.  The best Canti brake ever made was the Paul Stoplite, more powerful than either current Paul Canti.  

IRD Cafams, Paul Neo Retros, Mafac cantis, they all look great.  I love the way they look.  But if you just want a brake to shut up and work and be strong, get the Alivios!   I'd second the CX50's as the next best thing, after a pad swap.  Even flexy center mount center pull Racer brakes have more power than the wide profile design.  I switched between the two and was stoked by how much better the Racer felt, which is odd, given the flexier nature of the mounting system.  

-james

[Marc Irwin]

I've been really happy with the Velo Orange Gran Cru Zeste.  I've been using them for nearly 5 years and both the stopping power and modulation is great.

Marc

On Sunday, April 14, 2019 at 8:00:01 PM UTC-4, Erik Wright wrote:

[Ian A]

Economically/practically speaking:-

V brakes will probably offer the best stopping power, ease of set up and value. Depending on what levers you use and if long pull would present an option. Deore level V's etc.

I have CR720 cantis on a couple of bikes and am pleased with them. Kool Stop pads help a lot.

IanA

[sameness]

Steve, are you using the Rene Herse cantilevers? Newer or older canti stud spacing? Did the pads align in the middle of the slots straight out of the gate?

Jeff Hagedorn

Los Angeles, CA USA

[EasyRider]

Erik,

If I understand you, what you want is a brake that will allow you to run wider tires than you have now, and remove your wheels without deflating your tires. Everyone has their favorite brake, but if it doesn't open up far enough to do those things, it won't be your favorite brake, right?

In other words, not every brake/tire combo may suit your purpose. For example, the Riv product page for the Dia-Compe 980s says, "Compared to the Shimano CX-50? The CX-50 is a less attractive brake, but works great and opens up further to let out a fatter tire easier--which is why we recommend this Dia-Compe for tires up to 45mm only."

Pete

Arlington, VA

On Sunday, April 14, 2019 at 8:00:01 PM UTC-4, Erik Wright wrote

I'm thinking about getting canti posts brazed onto my sidepull Sam Hillborne to fit a wider tire / make wide tire installation easier. Canti brakes would be replacing Paul Racers.

[Clayton.sf]

Another nice set of Cantis were the recent iteration Campagnolo put out. I believe they were made for them by Tektro.

They are the best cantis I have ever uses and I continue to have them on 2 bikes (have used Pauls, Shimano, Empella, Mafac in the past). I don't think they are in production anymore but you might get lucky used.

Here the model I am referring to (not my listing or anyone I know): https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Campagnolo-CX-cantilever-brakes-black-good-condition/254200384346?hash=item3b2f860b5a:g:RVkAAOSw1LdctCdQ

Best,

Clayton Scott

HBG, CA

[Garth]

 I too find that price in no guarantees anything more than the expenditure itself. For me the best canti per given frame is the one that works. Oh I know how that sounds, but from the all the bikes I have/had with canti brakes, no 2 are ever alike. For one there is no standard spacing vertically or horizontally due to limitless frame designs and constructor sensibilities. It's part of the canti "mystique" I suppose.

For every "this whatever is best" ... I ask for just whom would that be best for, and it seems best for none other than the claim itself, which is nobody !

What's the canti best brake ?..... Whaddaya got, let's try it  !

Shimano BR-MC70's, M73x series , Suntour XC Pro and Tektro CR710 all have worked well for me. The CR720 ...not so far... maybe on some other bike they'll work. Kool Stop Salmon or black pads both work fine. I only use the basic straddle carriers, the rest are good for taking up storage space it seems.  I prefer posted pads too , especially in the front to clear the fork. KS pads can easily be shortened with a pair of snips and a file. The pads internal frame only goes back to the last notch in the rubber, allowing the easy mod. Pads used to be centered in the 80's so clearance was never an issue. I find not one thing beneficial about offset or even longer pads than road sized.

Thanks for the heads up about the Altus canti James, I may get a set.  It's funny how "low end" parts can be overlooked, when they're often quite fine.

[EasyRider]

Another benefit of the Altus cantis is that they will work with older forks that have narrower post spacing. The Bridgestone RB-T, for example.

[Steve Palincsar]

There is a standard, it's just that not everybody has followed it.   Most cantilever brakes try to incorporate a lot of adjustability to compensate for that.  Since the Herse brake is primarily intended for custom bikes, the expectation is the builder will adhere to the published specifications.  In that context, it's a reasonable expectation.  Obviously that doesn't work really well for retrofitting onto an existing frame made with any old whimsical canti post spacing.  However, it's not too likely you'd be putting brakes that cost that much on such a frame in the first place.

[David Hays]

I just put them on mine and they fit quite nicely and have nice finish to fit with an older bike.

Still having to fine tune the noise out of the front brake.

David Hays

Williamsville, New York

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[Steve Palincsar]

My latest bike has Rene Herse cantilevers.  The bike is a JP Weigle, and it is 100.000% to spec.  Alignment is perfect.  Of course, you would expect that.

I took this with my flip phone the other day while out test riding.  I haven't actually finished 100% with the build and haven't sat down to photograph it.

This is the bike Peter was riding last year, and in many ways it's very similar to the CdM bike -- only without the most extreme weight shaving measures. 

[Philip Williamson]

The CX-50, in addition to a fixed straddle cable has spacers for the pads. 

You measure the cantilever post spacing, measure your rim width, and consult a table (a PDF on the Shimano site) to choose the best pad spacer. 

I have these brakes, they work great, and I may have paid $30 for a bikesworth, brand new. Highly recommended, even with the black pads that are about due for a Koolstop upgrade. 

Philip

Santa Rosa, CA 

[Garth]

Sorry Steve, no standard. A standard to be a standard must be universal, independent of brands of parts, frame or builder. British BB threading, that's a standard.

[Steve Palincsar]

So because there is a different standard for bottom bracket threading to British, British BB threading is no longer a standard?

If you want to use the Herse brakes, distance between posts should be: 62 - 84 mm.  According to discussions I've seen on the forums, back in the heyday of cantilever brakes on MTBs Shimano decreed that posts would be 80mm apart.  Evidently in the past (perhaps even distant past) that spacing had been 60.  The modern standard is 80mm, and it's said all the brakes designed in the last 25 years are built for that.

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[Garth]

Sorry, I can't dumb it down any more. I'm out.

[Mark in Beacon]

Beautiful bike, Steve. Built for the RH, and vice versa.

[Mark in Beacon]

James: I appreciate strong opinions, but I think saying that wide profile should be "discounted" for everything unless you are, to use a derogatory term, doing a "reenactment" is silly. My CR720s work just fine, as do my Dia Compe and Mafac wide profile brakes. I would guess you'll find other folks on this list that have a similar experience.

[Steve Palincsar]

Absolutely.  I was enchanted with it from the moment I first saw it at the Classic Rendezvous Weekend last May.  I know Peter Weigle loves the Mafac cantilevers, but he's told me he was pleasantly surprised - and very surprised indeed because the geometry is identical - at how much better the Herse brakes perform than the Mafacs.  And he's someone who knows how to get the best out of Mafacs.

On 4/15/19 8:22 PM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:

Beautiful bike, Steve. Built for the RH, and vice versa.

[William deRosset]

Dear Mark,

Tektro cr720's are a fine enough brake, and when set up properly, work as well as any. They have the significant advantage of using orbital brake pads and slotted pad holder mounts that greatly simplify setup. Just replace the astonishingly bad Tektro brake blocks with Kool-Stop Salmon pads
Also, the hardware on the brake is less-than-beautifully finished, if functional.

They punch well above their $45/bike price. Add $12 for Salmon pads up front.

If cost is no object, then the RH brakes work well in my experience. They are lovely as well.

Best Regards,

Will
William M deRosset
Fort Collins CO USA

[Steve Palincsar]

Do the Tektros use one of those grub screws to anchor the straddle cable?

[Drw]

This conversation will have a million opinions. The tektros, in my opinion, are satisfactory at best. I haven’t tried the compass ones so I won’t weigh in. I will say that the Shimanos seem most intuitively strong and set upable out of the box. I’m not a giant fan of the Paul spring adjustment things (if other brakes don’t need them, I’m not sure why Paul’s do) though I’ll say If you want extreme power and a true quick release to open the arms for fat tires, Paul motolites are the best.

[Mark in Beacon]

Hi Will. Yes, I've been rolling with the tektro 720's on my 26in road bike for a few years, been through a couple of sets of Koolstops. Steve, they do have the grub screw. But it's not necessary to use it.

I think there are lots of variables that makes for such a wide variety of opinions. The two main ones in my estimation would be brake setup and user expectation.

[ascpgh]

Like brake lever pull, BB width, headset diameter, rear hub OLD. Standards seem to exist for others to deviate from.

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 5:03:29 PM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote:

So because there is a different standard for bottom bracket threading to British, British BB threading is no longer a standard?

If you want to use the Herse brakes, distance between posts should be: 62 - 84 mm.  According to discussions I've seen on the forums, back in the heyday of cantilever brakes on MTBs Shimano decreed that posts would be 80mm apart.  Evidently in the past (perhaps even distant past) that spacing had been 60.  The modern standard is 80mm, and it's said all the brakes designed in the last 25 years are built for that.

On 4/15/19 4:52 PM, Garth wrote:

Sorry Steve, no standard. A standard to be a standard must be universal, independent of brands of parts, frame or builder. British BB threading, that's a standard.

On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 3:41:21 PM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote:

There is a standard, it's just that not everybody has followed it.   Most cantilever brakes try to incorporate a lot of adjustability to compensate for that.  Since the Herse brake is primarily intended for custom bikes, the expectation is the builder will adhere to the published specifications.  In that context, it's a reasonable expectation.  Obviously that doesn't work really well for retrofitting onto an existing frame made with any old whimsical canti post spacing.  However, it's not too likely you'd be putting brakes that cost that much on such a frame in the first place.

On 4/15/19 3:21 PM, Garth wrote:

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[Steve Palincsar]

And there is a significant difference between formal standards (a specification that has been approved by a standards setting organization) and de facto standards (a specification (or protocol or technology) that has achieved widespread use and acceptance – often without being approved by any standards organization or receiving such approval only after it already has achieved widespread use).  Garth is clearly thinking of formal standards, and seems to be dismissing de facto standards entirely -- when in fact much of what we consider to be "standard" is actually a de facto rather than de jure formal standard.

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[Ash]

Initially when I built up my first Rivendell 2 yrs ago I used Cantis.  Went through, I think, 4 pairs, out of curiosity how they differ - VO Zeste, CR-710, Avid Shorty Ultimate and one other I can't remember.

I was most impressed with the Avid in terms of performance and design (I'm not talking about the aesthetics).  VO Zeste was quite good as well.  Somehow the Zeste opened wider (the brake shoes didn't hit the fork blades), hence it was very convenient to remove wheels that had 2.00" tires on. 
 

Eventually I switched to v-brakes.  This was NOT for performance reasons.  I have OCD tendencies.  Found myself constantly fiddling with the brakes.  There's not much to tweak with in v-brakes.

I think cantis look cooler and the modulation they offer is actually useful.  I do not like the 'grabbiness' of v-brakes.  One day I think I'll go back to cantis. 

[William deRosset]

>Do the Tektros use one of those grub screws to anchor the straddle cable?

Dear Steve,

Nope. They use a cast end on one side and a pinch clamp for the other. 

A grub screw bearing directly on a stranded cable loaded in tension is also described as the "death clamp", right? There are ways to fix it (brass sleeve, for instance, a ball bearing may also work), but it is a stupid/unsafe/inconvenient design out of the box.

Best Regards,

Will

[William deRosset]

Dear Mark,

The grubscrews to which you refer are on the straddle wire carrier, and are only used to locate the straddle cable carrier on the straddle cable. They are not directly in the load path. I've never used them. I pull mine and keep them in a jar of m4 grub screws, which are used on my fender mounts, as they are unnecessary to the function of the brake or of the straddle carrier. the brakes center just fine.

Best Regards,

Will

William M. deRosset

Fort Collins, CO

[DarinM]

Will,

I always thought it was silly that these hangers have a total of three (3) fasteners to hold it in place where none (0) are actually necessary. That said, I have had a set of 720's with such mismatched springs that it was necessary to actually use different tension holes on either brake post then fine tune with the tension adjustment set screw. Maybe the idea is to cheap out on springs and compensate with the ability to secure the hanger off center?

I only had this problem once, otherwise I think they are great brakes and cheap as heck. 

Darin

[Mark in Beacon]

Thanks Will. I thought they were called grub screws because they're so freaking tiny and always falling out of things onto the ground and you have to grub around looking for them.

[Ian Wilder]

On Sunday, April 14, 2019 at 7:00:01 PM UTC-5, Erik Wright wrote:
> I'm thinking about getting canti posts brazed onto my sidepull Sam Hillborne to fit a wider tire / make wide tire installation easier. Canti brakes would be replacing Paul Racers.
>
>
> If I go this route, what are the best options out there? I figure top of the line is Paul, but what's a more affordable brake? I see a lot of chatter around Shimano CX70, but hear they're discontinued. Is there a comparable option available now, or does it make sense to hunt down a used set of CX70s? If I splurge on Neo Retros, am I gaining anything functionally over other options?
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> Erik, Philly

I love the Neo Retros, and have been happy with Velo Orange Gran Cru in the past. I think the spring adjustment in the Pauls is unique and simple. Plus the added benefit of supporting a great business! I’m a 230lb guy and can lock the wheels with Neo Retros with and skid with slicks on my single speed vintage MTB!

[Ron Mc]

What Dave said, Paul cantis, especially combined with Paul levers, are the best brakes extant. 

On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 8:53:17 AM UTC-5, Dave Grossman wrote:

Hey Erik,

You are going to get a million opinions but Pauls are really easier than all other canti's to setup.  The mechanism they use to control spring tension is just so easy to adjust.  I also think getting some good Kool Stop pads makes a huge difference.

[masmojo]

The best cantilever brake is a pretty broad topic & all the ones mentioned here are great, but I personally like first generation Shimano XTR cantis myself. I think they only made them 1 or 2 years before switching to V brakes, but they are quite pretty, light, strong and stop good. You can pick them up used on Ebay. I've got a couple extra sets stashed away. Used sets can be pricey, but sub $60 is very fair. Will likely need new pads.

[DarinM]

This is a good take. I'm weary of any claim that a given high quality cantilever brake is objectively better than the rest. Of the high quality options, pick one that fits your frame requirements, aesthetics, and/or mechanical aptitude. Even the lower quality ones can be coaxed to work well enough.

I avoided smooth post type for a while but came into a nice set for very cheap that fit my builds aesthetics (Shimano M373). I've figured out how to set them up properly and now they work as well or better than any other model I've used.

Darin

[Patrick Moore]

Darin: I daresay you are wary before being weary of cantilever advice.

All: General question: What are the respective benefits and defects of high profile and low profile cantilever brakes?

Which style, and which make/model of that style, would you (singly) choose, and why?

On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 11:24 AM DarinM <darin...@gmail.com> wrote:

...I'm weary of any claim that a given high quality cantilever brake is objectively better than the rest. 

[Steve Palincsar]

On 4/24/19 1:30 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:

Darin: I daresay you are wary before being weary of cantilever advice.

All: General question: What are the respective benefits and defects of high profile and low profile cantilever brakes?

Biggest benefit to low profile cantilevers is their low profile: less likely to interfere with feet, bags, etc.  Biggest drawbacks to low profile cantilevers are tricky setup, sensitivity to straddle cable height, geometry works against you as you get closer to the rim.

Flip those for mid-profile.  Drawbacks, Possible interference w/bags & big feet | small frames, benefits easier setup in that not sensitive to straddle cable height. 

Which style, and which make/model of that style, would you (singly) choose, and why?

I like the mid-profile cantilever brakes.  My new bike was designed to use the Rene Herse cantilevers and built by a master craftsman and they're simply brilliant.  The aesthetics are amazing: beautiful, almost jewel-like; as simple and minimalistic as it is possible to be; they weigh next to nothing; there's virtually nothing to adjust; and they work and feel just great, better than any other cantilever I've ever used before.  And they don't squeal, either.  With a frame my size, there are no concerns about hitting bags or feet.  The classic solution to supporting a front rack was designed for just these brakes.

  

[phil k]

My one dislike for the Rene Herse cantis are the roller yokes. They are bulky and take more real estate and interfere with the fork crown mount of a rack, they are also finicky to set up considering the rest of the brakes are a breeze to set up. I had to use a more traditional yoke like your second picture to get more clearance on traditional Nitto rando racks.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 4/24/19 3:34 PM, phil k wrote:
> My one dislike for the Rene Herse cantis are the roller yokes. They
> are bulky and take more real estate and interfere with the fork crown
> mount of a rack, they are also finicky to set up considering the rest
> of the brakes are a breeze to set up. I had to use a more traditional
> yoke like your second picture to get more clearance on traditional
> Nitto rando racks.

Admittedly, I didn't set mine up, the LBS did - but unlike some other
roller yokes where have to cut the cable to exact length with these you
just put the cable through the hole and fasten it. And, of course,
although the rollers come with the brakes they're not required, you can
use any yoke.

[ted]

Enough about the brakes.
Now please tell us all about those down tube shifters.

[Steve Palincsar]

Do you mean these here?

If so, that's an interesting story.  Here's a better view, from last September, when these two were for sale

They began life as Campagnolo indexed bar end shifters.  There's a discussion of the process on the Velocipede Salon: https://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f7/campy-down-tube-shifters-17341.html

It should be noted, this cannot be done with 11 speed Campagnolo bar end shifters per the BQ article on the Weigle CdM entry, and the 10 speed Campagnolo bar end shifters have been discontinued.

On 4/24/19 5:09 PM, ted wrote:

Enough about the brakes.
Now please tell us all about those down tube shifters.

[ted]

Yes, thanks Steve. Very cool.

[Ash]

I'll be damned!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/XTR-M900-brake-set-Shimano-cantilever-Vintage-Mountain-Bike-mtb-2-NOS/312434294778?epid=1301629719&hash=item48be88fffa:g:9xIAAOSwAxNZ0AjQ

https://www.ebay.com/itm/XTR-M900-brake-set-Shimano-cantilever-Vintage-Mountain-Bike-NOS/333144968671?hash=item4d90fccddf:g:YxIAAOSw~K5baWTl

They do look gorgeous..

[Steve Palincsar]

Damned indeed.  That's some mighty serious money they're asking for them.  They weren't just MTB: I had them on my Santana tandem, where they worked just fine.  For that money, though, there's simply no way I'd choose them over the Rene Herse cantilevers.

[masmojo]

Ash, those are NOS & offered by someone with an inflated opinion of their value; occasional searching will turn up more reasonably priced used sets. Appearance wise they hold up well over time and any I buy, I am intent on using, so NOS means nothing to me.

Of course they fall into that category of components that I should stop extolling the virtue of, because it just drives up demand and prices!

[phil k]

This is true. My biggest gripe with the cantis I almost forgot about - it cannot fit anything wider than 54mm according to their specs. I wanted to make a canti RTP bike, but with fenders these cantis would not work either.

[Benz, Sunnyvale, CA]

On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 10:23:13 AM UTC-7, Ash wrote:

I'll be damned!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/XTR-M900-brake-set-Shimano-cantilever-Vintage-Mountain-Bike-mtb-2-NOS/312434294778?epid=1301629719&hash=item48be88fffa:g:9xIAAOSwAxNZ0AjQ

The first eBay auction is from pb*bikes. This seller is well-known for asking sky high prices for NOS items that are (usually) hard to find. If you have the dough and don't want to wait 24 months for the same item in nearly as good of a condition to show up with a different seller, well, pb*bikes is your guy/girl!

[Michael Hechmer]

Eric,  you certainly have gotten a lot of advice and all I can offer is a single data point.  First, I will second Steve's observation that the Rene Herse equipment is generally made for an integrated bike system, so it often doesn't lend itself to a retrofit. Second, different brakes work better or worse with different levers.  Make sure the lever & brake pull are well matched.  I have Shimano, Di Compe, Tecktro and Paul's Neo retros.  The first two offered only mediocre power, although the Shimanos worked better with Tectro levers than with Ultegra.  I found the Teckro very fussy.  The Paul's offer three great advantages that make them worth the money to me.  First they offer both excellent stoping and modulation.  Second, they are the easiest to adjust, although I did have a learning curve with this until the process jelled in my brain.  Finally, they are a lifetime brake.  They will last as long as your steel frame.  Maybe even longer.  All of the parts are readily available at a reasonable price.  I originally had Paul's racers on our tandem and have been very happy that I converted to the Neo-Retros for the added tire clearance.  We run 45s on that bike now.

Michael