Sam Hillborne, confused on size/epoch

[Jeffery S]

Is anyone out there familiar with this sidepull Sam? I think it's from this run, but questioning since it doesn't have a cream head tube – although the 62 in the post doesn't have a cream head tube either:
https://rivbike.tumblr.com/post/74753017240/reintroducing-sam-hillborne

When I bought it, I quickly measured the seat tube and got ~58cm c-t and the seller assured it is a 58cm. However, it just feels small. I'm thinking maybe it's a 56? I am only able to find geometry charts that say Sams around this size came in 55 or 58.

Even if small, it has been a blast to ride. Made lots of good memories with it.

Photos/measurements: https://photos.app.goo.gl/5YrDfdKs8qJuizc26
Seat tube c-t: 22.75" (57.785cm)
Seat tube c-c: 22" (55.88cm)
Top tube c-c: 22.5" (57.15cm)
Head tube: 8.5" (21.59cm)

[Joe Bernard]

It's measuring correctly as a 58, the problem I see with so much seatpost showing is you need a bigger frame. This will be further exacerbated by those pullback bars on what was designed as a dropbar road bike. You need a new Riv! 

[Jeffery S]

Ha! I probably do need a new Riv, I've been coming to terms with this for a little bit. The new Lime Olive Sam is tempting.

My pbh is 91, which is right between sizes 58/62 on the chart below. When I found the bike on craigslist it almost seemed too good to be true and I probably wanted it to work more than it practically would.

I should throw some drop bars on there and give them a whirl again. It's been a long time since I've ridden drops. I have a hard time getting comfortable, even when getting them above saddle height.

[brendonoid]

Those older sidepull Sams have shorter chainstays and I think very slightly shorter top tubes than current models.

Can I please ask what you run your saddle height at? that is a lot of seat post showing for a 91pbh on 58cm frame.

I have a 90.5 pbh but run my saddles at 78-79cm depending on Crank length/uprightness of posture. I comfortably run 77cm saddle height on a B-67 with a 178mm crank.

The limeolive sams made me seriously consider selling my old 60cm 2012 Sam for an upgrade, they look very nice...

Here is my drop bar Sam with a 5cm stem with an old Nitto RM-013 for an example. pretty sure the saddle is 78cm here because of the long cranks but it might be more 78.5?

[brendonoid]

What I meant to say in my pointless ramble there is that there is nothing about your PBH that suggests a 58cm Sam is too small for you. But that saddle height makes me wonder...

[Jeffery S]

All good, I have the same questions about fit I guess. That is a handsome ride, those red accents are a nice contrast with the frame.

Saddle height measures 81.5 cm and the crank is 175. I commute in boots with a little thicker sole than sneakers.
Here's a photo from the web of a 58cm in black w/ cream head tube. Doing a quick photoshop overlay does match up with with mine.

[Garth]

2016 chart with stack heights and reach. The 62 doesn't offer much in the way of extra reach, 1 cm, but at least the stack height goes up commensurate with the taller frame. 2.4cm of extra front-center.

It's not necessarily that the 58 is too small for you, that depends on your saddle position, reach and height to the bars where your hands will be, and your flexibility/core strength to comfortably ride in said position. You just can't dumb it down to cliche's and size charts and expect it to fit anyone but by dumb luck. If you're buying a bike like that it's highly likely you already own a bike of some kind. Use that as a comparison tool. It may be the Sam doesn't fit a buyer in any size, not enough reach, for example. Riv road frames doesn't have a lot of it.

So as mentioned, you may as well try a drop bar with your 58. If you use a quill stem adapter and zero or plus 6-10 degree rise stem you'll get enough height. With a negative rise stem on a small frame ..... that's counterproductive.

And that's the story for today .. yippee !

[Eric Marth]

Hi Jeffrey — How are you measuring? Rivendell measures from center of the bottom bracket spindle to the top of the seat lug (at the low point, if it swoops down) like shown in the picture below. 

Grab your metric tape and get measuring! 

[Jeffery S]

Thanks for the geometry chart Garth. The 58 size details on that seem to line up best with what I have. And thanks for the info on how the frames are measured, Eric. Good to know it's C-T instead of C-C. Definitely clears up some confusion with the measurements.

I'm tinkering with the configuration and installing set of drop bars is now on the list. I better get some back stretches in too, ha!