Fixed Gear Snow Ride

[Deacon Patrick]

In which the fixie flywheel dramatically increases traction both up and down snowpack and slicksnow and I get out farther than ever under conditions that would have frozen my derailer and that did freeze my front brake.

https://thegrid.ai/withabandon/rampart-fixed-gear-snow-ride 

With abandon,

Patrick

www.CredoFamily.org

www.MindYourHeadCoop.org

[Philip Williamson]

Fixed is pretty good, right?

Philip
www.biketinker.com

[Ian A]

You may have mentioned it already, but what tires are you using, Deacon? Also, marvellous write up and you persuade me to finally bite the fixie bullet.

IanA

[Deacon Patrick]

Ian, Compass Steilacoom. https://www.compasscycle.com/shop/components/tires/700c/compass-700c-x-38-steilacoom/

They clear and grip amazingly. With them the Quickbeam doesn’t feel like underbiking at all on the stuff I ride, and they opened up using the Quickbeam as my main bike.

With abandon,
Patrick

[Deacon Patrick]

Ian, a few caviate emptors and ymmvs regarding me and fixed. As near as I can tell very few ride fixed mountain biking and almost nobody is riding fixed bikepacking (which I will be, as soon as I can get the Hunqapillar shifted to fixed. Still puzzling that one out). Also, I’m weird. A lot of that weirdness made the transition to fixed simple and easy and a huge step forward without any bumps typical to the accounts I read online. I floor live, which, among other things gives me a very strong core and flexable hips (essential for stand/squatting while pedaling). I have contstant neurological vertigo as part of my bludgeoned brain — I can only ride a bike because I wear as close to no footwear as I can get away with (aka minimalist), and my proprioceptive system is free to know where I am in space though my brain hasn’t a clue (I suspect this made the transition to fixed much easier).

Is fixed brilliant? Yes. It also requires an adjustment willfully entered into (riding exclusively fixed eliminates the “noise” of switching back and forth — though certainly not essential). It also requires adjusting one’s expectations for downhill speed (less) and effort (more), best entered into by discovering the view during the downhill as opposed to the watery-eyed tunnel vision. Grin. No free miles.

Dive in! Eyes open! Be delighted! No matter what, you’ll learn, a lot. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

[Tony DeFilippo]

I'll admit I'm accurately pondering fixed after this description Patrick... I've only tried it once stone the block and didn't love it but your description of the climbing traction is intriguing. As always the pictures and story telling are excellent. If nothing else I'm theilen you've found something that works so well for you and also worked well with your existing Riv bikes!

[WETH]

Best thing I've read and the best photographs Ive encountered this week! Well done as always!

[lum gim fong]

My only concern for myself regarding trying fixed is hurting my knees by always trying to pedal too hard. Hilly where I live. I see it is even hillier where Patric lives. So how do you pedal up those long, tough hills without shooting meniscus out the sides, especially at our middle age?

I have been learning to relax the legs while climbing in a very slow cadence to avoid mashing too hard. This seems to work for anything under 4%. But there comes a point where I will have to unhealthily mash or LCG. So this keeps me from buying a single speed bike. But I would love a single speed bike to have the mental relaxation of never shifting gears.

[Patrick Moore]

I can answer for myself: First, I started riding fixed relatively young -- 42, IIRC -- when my knees were strong, and perhaps got them used to it; and I gradually learned to stand for longish periods, which puts less strain on your knees. Also, I rarely ride longer than 30 miles at once.

In short, you can adapt to standing for long periods.

Further, if you don't do this already, learn to shove back way behind the bb, so that you are pushing the pedal over TDC, to some extent. Lastly, you can also "scrape" the pedal at BDC, and pull up (this requires cleats of some sort to be easy, IME) for a bit of extra torque.

I find longish, gradual hills among the most enjoyable of terrains; 68" to 76" gears with current bikes. Heck, I climb that way on my derailleur bikes, too, though perhaps a tooth or so lower.

Patrick Moore, whose near-63-year-old knees seem to be fine, Deo gratias.

[Deacon Patrick]

Lum, gear on the low side (40-50”). Ride. Learn. Gear up. Ride. Learn. Switch back. Ride. Learn. Switch forth. Ride. Learn. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

[lum gim fong]

Patric,

What inches are you using in your mountainous terrain? 

[Patrick Moore]

Your Zen-trance talents must be far greater than mine; I didn't mind flats and uphills in a 60" gear, but downhills were so annoying I switched to a slightly higher geared freewheel. (I was not used to 175 mm cranks at the time, which probably exacerbated the feeling. Of course, my hills were undoubtedly far shorter than yours, but they were long enough (some inclines were 2-3 miles) to annoy. And tail winds on the flats were bad, too!

Patrick Moore, who just road his '99 gofast fixie on (well maintained and hardpacked) winding dirt trails in ABQ, NM, in a 76" gear.

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Auditis an me ludit amabilis insania?

[Patrick Moore]

Patrick: "nother question: Is your switched to fixed simply a practical measure for very cold weather, so that you'll go back to freewheels in warmer weather, or are you enjoying the fixed-ness of riding fixed?

People say that, riding a fixed wheel, they feel "more at one" with the bike. I've never understood what they mean, but I do enjoy fixed more than ss freewheel, for some reason -- I guess it comes down to the feeling of -- well, it can't be "flywheel" unless you have absolutely no slack in your chain, or your wheel is jerking your legs over TDC; but there is a smoothness to it that I don't feel with a freewheel.

One other annoying thing about riding fixed off road was that, in technical sections, you couldn't quickly backpedal to get your legs in a favorable position to clear an obstacle, or to drive down with immediate torque immediately after clearing a dicey section; though this very liability may be a plus for some riders. I didn't ride fixed off road long enough (a few months) to learn to favor it; downhills, again drove me away.

[Deacon Patrick]

Lum, 65” and 42” (freewheel is a bit higher at 68” and 46”). I have a 44t cog and I may have room for it (technically I do, but that may be only with smaller tires, which I’m not going to do). That would give me a 70” top gear. But I really don’t see the need for it.
Patrick, I’m all in for fixed. It is another level ahead in terms of brain feel, and I’ll take all I can get. Definately not a seasonal change.

I’m puzzling how to best go about the Hunqapillar conversion and in conversation with Grant. The Eno Eccentric hub is a no go because of the high torque.

With abandon,
Patrick

[Craig Montgomery]

That's why the Brits had rear wheels that allowed freewheel on one side and fixed on the other. Come winter they'd flip the wheel, remove derailleur, shorten chain and off into a Northwest European winter. 

Craig in a Southwest American winter in Tucson

[lum gim fong]

So in England they would freewheel or fixed for which season and why? I don't understand.

[Ian A]

Now, that is curious. What is it about the high torque that negates the option of the ENO on the Hunq? Is there a fear of snapping the right side drop out? I've never heard of the ENO causing such a problem.

Curious in Canada,
IanA

[Patrick Moore]

On Sat, Dec 9, 2017 at 5:03 PM, Deacon Patrick <lamon...@mac.com> wrote:

...

Patrick, I’m all in for fixed. It is another level ahead in terms of brain feel, and I’ll take all I can get. Definately not a seasonal change.

https://youtu.be/XnqJ41aDFfc?t=52

 

I’m puzzling how to best go about the Hunqapillar conversion and in conversation with Grant. The Eno Eccentric hub is a no go because of the high torque.

What is the problem with the ENO and torque? I had no problems with it off road or on.

[Deacon Patrick]

Ian, I believe it is an issue with not holding chain tension under high torque.

With abandon,
Patrick

[Patrick Moore]

Perhaps you put out more torque than I do, but I never had a problem with my 2 ENOs when climbing hills in relatively high gears (again, 70" road, 63" off road).

I think more research is in order here.

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[Deacon Patrick]

I’m going to trust White Industries knows thier products better than I. Grin. No more research needed for me. Loosing chain tension is apparently fairly common for high-torque riders on the forums I researched, which is why I asked the question.

With abandon,
Patrick

[Justin, Oakland]

If the ENO is a no go then it seems like you have 3 options:
1) “Magic” gear marching front and rear that gives you perfect chain length
2) Cut out dropouts and get something brazed in that will allow chain tenisioning.
3) cut out Bottom Bracket shell and get something brazed in that allows chain tensioning.

I am struggling the think of anything else. 1) is the least likely to succeed with 3 being a near tie and 2 looking like a clear winner.
-J

[Patrick Moore]

Has anyone else heard of the ENO eccentric shifting under load? I read a great deal about it some years ago when I was using them and heard nothing about this. A quick Google (vt) only turned up reports of the axle shifting in the dropouts.

-J

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[Deacon Patrick]

You got it, Justin. New dropouts is the option being explored.

With abandon,
Patrick

[dougP]

Tandems use an eccentric BB to allow tensioning the front chain.  Would that work?

dougP

[Deacon Patrick]

True, Doug. Requires a larger bottom bracket shell, though.

With abandon,
Patrick

[lum gim fong]

I'd leave the Hunq alone and just buy another single speed if poss. Remember: 'Once you haq you can't go baq!".

[Ian A]

Ah yes, that makes sense. Your Hunq is definitely subject to significant torque and having the chain tension fail under load, up a hill with a week's worth of groceries could be an unfortunate event.

I see a third bike in the offing :)

IanA

[Philip Williamson]

Can you share links to forum posts recounting loss of tension with the ENO hub in low gears?

Philip
www.biketinker.com

[Eric Daume]

The torque on the ENO won't come from the high gears, but from the low, where you're putting more mechanical advantage through the gears.

Has White industries actually said it's a no go for the gear you want to use? I'm guessing it would be fine.

Eric

[Justin August]

Did you already explore this Phil bottom bracket?
http://www.philwood.com/products/bbpages/philcentric.php

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[Deacon Patrick]

I will look into the Philcentric BB, Justin. Thank you.

One of the things I’ve learned trying a LOT of different ways of going about “x” is it rarely goes well when the purpose of a thing and it’s use don’t match up. The less alligned purpose and use are the more fiddly and frustrating it will go. So, I’m working with Grant on this question, and happy to bow to a manufacture when they say ogre pedaling is outside it’s purpose. Grin.

Anyone have a mountain mixte they’ve rethought? Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

[Patrick Moore]

But be aware that, as with Nitto putting 7 lb max limits on racks, some mfrs may put "cya" restrictions on their products.

It may well be that the ENO suffers more from the pull of high torque pedaling than, say, a Phil fixed hub with allen bolts; but I've yet to be convinced mfr's disclaimers notwithstanding.

(But if someone can give real evidence, I'll accept it.) (Someone go put a 32/28 gear on their ENO and ride up a very steep hill, already.)

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[Deacon Patrick]

Phil, I’m not sure where the links were. I did a lot of searching. Some likely on MTBr.com.

With abandon,
Patrick

[Kainalu V.]

Patrick, the mountain mixte is the obvious answer! I'm new to this mountain mixte thing, but I've found it to be much preferable to the other option. With a step through you can really dance around, allowing for maximum finesse on rocky trails. Being able to catamaran your body so readily and completely is super fun as well a huge advantage. Not to mention fitting in with your Clemmed family!
And, as you're comfortable on a 66 quickbeam, that (still available?) Mega mountain mixte of Will's design would be almost ideal except for the vertical dropouts, which would be simple to swap out for horizontals by any one of Colorado's many skilled frame builders.

Abandon most gears
-Kai
BK NY

P.s.- gonna swap my quickbeam's bars and flop my wheel to fixed as soon as I finish this eggnog

[Abcyclehank]

The available Jumbo Mountain Mixte is gone already checked Thursday.

Ryan Hankinson
West Michigan

[Patrick Moore]

Certainly, someone would not want to invest in an ENO if the mfr say beware; still, I'd like to hear of someone testing one with a 50" or lower gear.

One day I'd like to try this. Has anyone done so? Can you choose more or less what ring and cog you like, then fine tune chain tension with 1-tooth differences in the floating ring, or are you limited in your ring/cog choices?

I personally would choose new dropouts (for a frame vertical dropouts) and, God willing, will have the "short horizontals" on the '99 Joe Starck replaced by longer ones.

[Ty Smith]

Beautifully written and photographed. "Poetic," comes to mind. 

Thanks for taking me there with you. I appreciate this especially as  for the last six months I'm dealing with some chronic pain issues, so longish rides (thought not all rides!) are out for me. I miss being out in nature and your prose and pictures put me right in the saddle.

"Grin" indeed.

Ty