Rambouillet as Tourer

[Mike Godwin]

Howdy, looking through the archives about using a Rambouillet as a touring machine. I toured along the spine of the Cascades and Sierra on a Specialized Sequoia, and along Highway 1 SF to LA.  The Rambouillet seems a bit more stout than the Sequoia.  Most of the old touring related posts here are from 2012 - 2014.  Any new news about tours folks have done on their Rambouillets?  What pannier arrangements did you use? Self-supported, road surface? 

Mike SLO CA 

[ascpgh]

I rode my Rambouillet across the country on the Adventure Cycling Trans-Am route, Western Express route. Not self-supported. After the trip I wanted a bike like the Rambouillet, not like a Long Haul Trucker. The latter, without load, is like driving around in an F-250 pickup with nothing in it and I was happy to suffer some austerity of wardrobe options and a lot of hand washing on the trip to get it.  

I used a Carradice Nelson Longflap on the long credit card tour and actually talked the others out of a self-supported trip because everyone would need a new bike. They didn't understand how much stuff we'd have to carry along every day and how much water volume above that the deserts of Utah were going to dictate That ride is completely different schlep if self-supporting. 

The reasonable limit on my large (64cm) Ram was 20 pounds in the saddle bag (which is more than Grant wrote) and I could feel some poor handling at the top of that range since the load is up high. I still wonder how I carried enough in that 15 liters of space to account for all the weather and mechanical support. 

I did enjoy a shower, bed and AC in the locations along the route we stayed because even those little places campsites were outside of town and half the fun of the route was knowing that you rolling into town on a bike was often the high point of peoples' day. Eating in a diner with them for dinner and breakfast provided conversations that kept the group fresh and gave us insight such as we hoped to as we crossed the country.

I have added a Velo Orange rando bag in the front to gain more capacity for a short trip in potentially questionable weather on the 2012 Riv Rally East. I have to say that while I managed the load it was not a graceful fitment. I can't say that low front bags would be bad but it's be a shape to dampen that fork's liveliness by bridging it with a rack and loading it up. The lack of braze-ons of that bike is intentional.

I learned a lot about riding my Ram with loads within its design intention and then beyond. I have that shorter experience in overload and I have ridden it extensively on the GAP. While it might have been designed to ride all surfaces, that takes it to 85% of the design limit. Its riding weight (it, me and cargo) are too rear biased and require rear tire pressure to be high enough (max 32 under fenders) to avoid pinch flats/rim dings on longer rides. It just wore me out at times, either by the duration of jostling on a hard tire or the time spend changing tubes from flats when more comfortable. 

My years learning and riding my Rambouillet  helped me solidify the likes and dislikes I brought together in a new bike. I still do not want to ride a self-supported touring bike empty, which would be 90%+ of its time so my preference was to move the 20-25# load to the front (with low trail) to balance the wheels' loads allowing more even tire pressure, fewer rim dings and comfortable ride. I chose 650b x 42 tubeless to lower that flatting frequency. So I have that new bike, a Coast rando, and it does all that I wanted on day one. I still have the Rambouillet and am about to ride it to work in a few minutes. I wouldn't change a thing about it after these years, proof of which is the Disc Trucker sitting next to it that has a layer of dust because even with its generator hub and lights I'd rather be riding the Ram with clip on battery lights for the commute instead of that empty F-250.

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

[Fullylugged]

The Ram was intended for lightish touring and it does that well. Handling with any kind of front load depends a lot on the handlebar type and stem length used. I toured with the stock Nitto Noodles. I used a Mark's rack with P-Clamps and a small Baggins bag with up to 5 lbs in it. I also used a Duluth Candy roll handlebar bag for lightweight, want quick access to stuff, like lip protector, my phone, etc. Mostly, supplies went into 2 Nashbar panniers on a lightweight aluminum rear rack. That was to keep the center of gravity lower. Rain jacket and pants, helmet cover was in a large Baggins bag on top of the rack. I had a Keven's bag under the saddle with tire change stuff. The bike was a little rear heavy that way. handling was fine, but picking up and carrying was different. I have almost always ridden the same 32 mm Paselas that were original issue.

These days, that bike is re-configured as my Townie/Sunday Cruiser but still has a rack in back and a Baggins bag on top.

Bruce

[Michael Cyr]

I personally just purchased a Ram that was sitting in a garage looking beautiful but not being used. I've been wondering how hard I can push it, especially on dirt/gravel. So, Andy, thank you for your insight here. The more I read the more I'm gleaning that this bike should NOT be too heavily loaded. 

[Thomas B]

Hi Andy,

Thanks for sharing your experience - would you mind sharing pictures of the Coast?

Tom

El Cerrito, CA

[Ben Mihovk]

By any chance, did you buy the one off eBay being sold by Walter? I messaged him a few times about the bike and decided I needed something a little more rugged, but man...that bike was very tempting.

[Mike Godwin]

When the Rambouillets first were advertised in the planning works, do you guys recall who (Ted King?)  did a dirt ride parallel to I-80 through the Humboldt Basin / Lake Lahontan (east of Reno) on a Rambouillet? That got me interested in the bike. The same test bike was on the floor at Riv, Grant loaned it to me for a weekend.  I rode it on pavement and through various parts of dirt trails on Mt Diablo. I eventually got RB005, a pre-production version. It fits 36 mm wide tires (actual) and would probably safely accept up to 40 mm wide tires. I did grocery runs on it, but never loaded touring with front and rear racks. Very capable multipurpose bikes.  So that was the origin of my question, they are capable of handling different riding conditions and uses, but loaded down, it seems they can handle front and rear loads too.

Mike SLO CA

[Patrick Moore]

I did no touring with my blue model, but I did carry many sizeable rear loads (Tubus Fly rack in case it makes a difference) and the Ram performed well with rear loads up to about 35 lb. More than that and the handling started to get a bit "wandery" but it did as well as the 2003 custom, which probably had stouter tubes, that I am presently debating whether to keep or to sell. IME, it's not always the stouter-tubed bikes that carry loads -- at least rear loads -- best, but those that have the right combination (I suppose) of tubing, geometry, and of course a good rack.

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[Patrick Moore]

I should add that I choose my load carriers as much for their unladen handling as their loaded handling. The Ram handled well unladen, of course.

[Toshi Takeuchi]

I've done long randoneurring rides on my 650b converted Ram.  It was definitely one of my favorite bikes ever, and was only replaced because I got an even nicer custom Riv.  It had a front Mark's rack with P-clamps and a rear saddlebag.  Never any handling issues.  I've used larger saddlebags than the one pictured here for my longest rides.  I think it would be great for credit card touring, but would want something beefier for larger loads.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/42771204@N00/8176967200/

Toshi

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[dougP]

Where does the Ram fit in compared to the Homer?  A friend did a tour down the coast with a Homer a few years ago & enjoyed the trip, no bike problems.  RBWHQ did tell him that Homer was intended to be a touring bike but they are also pretty conservative about such things.

A definite consideration when loading a bike is rider weight and baggage.  I've toured on my Atlantis & found that with 35-40 lbs of junk (easy to do when camping) the bike rides much more cushy than unloaded.  I'm middling in weight at 160.  The Atlantis could probably handle a 200 lb rider with full luggage.  My friend who toured on his Homer is quite thin & light. 

So if the Ram is not far off the Homer, you're probably OK if you're not lugging enough gear to go around the world.  Based on my own experience with my Atlantis, weight placement affects handling to a surprising degree, even on a purpose built touring bike.  After considerable fiddling, I've found that 60% front / 40% rear works best for me.  Too much on the rear causes it to wobble.  When we've had threads about panniers & weight placement, results vary all over the place, so your safest bet is to play around with it quite a bit before starting your tour.  Especially with all the gear for camping, 4 bags seems best.  I've done lodging tours with 2 bags & prefer them on the front for ride & handling, but 20 lbs on the rear works OK as well.

Sorry I had no Ram specific info to offer, but it looks like you got some responses that cover it.

dougP

[Toshi Takeuchi]

I would say the Ram is in between the Homer and Roadeo. It doesn’t have braze-ons for racks which is one of my negatives for touring, although you can use the fender mount for racks. I weigh 150 and my Homer felt good and even springy (Is that what planing is?) when I had about 25-30 lbs on the rear rack. I think the Homer would work fine for me for loaded touring. 

Toshi

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[ascpgh]

Tom, here's some shots of my new Coast rando. I really did extract and list all the good things about my Rambouillet in my conversations with Johnny as well as describe its shortcomings to my actual uses. Reality was really important, you cannot have illusions of grandeur when planning a custom bike. I'm not going to be cycle touring the Gavia. We have two college graduates with us in quarantine, one we've been mentoring for four years and is just starting her career, the other working to take a new direction from what was lost to the pandemic, so I've got my non-vocational hands busy without imagining myself out on the endless road. 

I Provided Johnny comprehensive dimensions of my Rambouillet (with which he was very familiar), as I have ridden it for years and video my wife took of me riding it on level and uphill grades. I also provided specs on my commuter (Disc Trucker) and my riding summaries of each bike. I shared that my Carradice Nelson Longflap was my ideal volume luggage. All that along with the 650B wheels (sweet spot for tubeless, cushy ride on rough surfaces, wheels not noticeably resistant to accelerating) yielded his solution.

Here's a link to a shared album of my bike and some of the influencing process: https://photos.app.goo.gl/a3EPAQ4akrDqDGoF9

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh 

[Michael Cyr]

I actually found one on Craigslist in Vermont - it had been sitting in a garage for 3 years. I was skeptical of the Riv appeal so went to test ride it out of curiosity more than anything - I was instantly sold. 

I'm currently running the original 27 Ruffy Tuffys which probably informs my skepticism of it being able to hand a substantial load.

Mike - that story sounds quite interesting. I'm generally curious to hear how much other folks have pushed their Rams as I start to push mine a bit. 

[Michael Cyr]

I actually saw mine sitting on CL in Vermont. It had been hanging in a garage for 3 years due to an injury.  I went to test ride it out of curiosity and was immediately sold by the ride of the Riv. 

Currently has the original 27 Ruffy Tuffys, gonna try to squeeze 33s on it this weekend and see how it handles more gravel riding and a heavier load.

On Wednesday, September 9, 2020 at 1:53:28 PM UTC-4 bjmi...@gmail.com wrote:

[Wyatt]

Rode the Natchez Trace not too long ago on my Rambo. ~450 miles, all paved, hammock camping. Loaded with Carradice Long Flap on the saddle and BXB Teardrop on the bars. The frame isn't right for racks, imo. Wouldn't want to load it much more than this, but it handled this load quite well. Easily enough extra room to pick up a six pack on the way the campsite at the end of day.

These days, I've got it built up with 700x38 g-ones and a 1x9 drivetrain, which works great on zippy gravel day rides. Wouldn't want to tour off road on it, though. I think 38s are just a little too narrow for off road touring, imo, and the frame clearance is way too tight for anything larger.

[Patrick Moore]

My blue Ram handled moderate (up to !~30 lb) rear loads on a Tubus Fly pretty well, fwiw.

On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 3:09 PM Wyatt <wya...@gmail.com> wrote:

Rode the Natchez Trace not too long ago on my Rambo. ~450 miles, all paved, hammock camping. Loaded with Carradice Long Flap on the saddle and BXB Teardrop on the bars. The frame isn't right for racks, imo. Wouldn't want to load it much more than this, but it handled this load quite well. Easily enough extra room to pick up a six pack on the way the campsite at the end of day.

[dougP]

Wyatt:

Do you know the weight of the load you were carrying in this picture?  It looks substantial & camping gear tends to the heavy side.  I'm guessing 20-30 lbs, including the bags.

doug P

[Wyatt]

Didn't weigh it, but yeah, I'd bet close to 30 pounds. I don't buy expensive ultralight weight stuff as a rule. Basic Eno hammock gear, plenty of food, camera, denatured alcohol and stove, change of clothes, lights, batteries, tools, spares, etc. Everything you'd need for 4-5 days on a summer tour aside from a couple of gas station runs. Rambo is the perfect for that kind of tour, imo.

[RichS]

Mike,

Take a look at Riv Reader 25 , pages 42-43. An excellent demonstration of a lightweight touring setup on a Ram.

Best,

Rich in ATL

[Mike Godwin]

Thanks Rich

I remember the front title when i used to get the RR in the mail.

Mike SLO CA

[iamkeith]

I've linked to this archived page from Peter White during numerous similar threads, but it's still there and still relevant.  Good synopsis of the difference between the Ram and Hilsen when they were simultaneously available:

https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/rambouillet.php

"These two frames are so similar, I've decided to keep them on the same page, at least until I think of a reason not to. If you start from the Rambouillet, the Hilsen has longer chainstays, by one centimeter. It also requires longer caliper brakes, because it has clearance for larger tires. Essentially the Rambouillet is great for fast day riding with the racer wannabees, brevets and credit card touring. The Hilsen is more into the loaded touring category. When you put full panniers on it, the handling will be a bit more stable than if you load down the Rambouillet. And with fat tires on the Hilsen, dirt roads will be more comfortable to ride on all day.

So for now the text below is what it has been ever since I started selling the Rambouillet frames several years ago. Virtually everything written here applies to the Hilsen, with the caveats above. Of course, we have no more Rivendell FframesAs soon as I have time, I'll list maximum tire sizes I'm happy recommending, with and without fenders. My recommendations have been a bit more conservative that Rivendell's recommendations in the past. I usually recommend a smaller maximum tire size with fenders than Riv does. It is somewhat personal preference; essentially how risk averse you are. The smaller the gap between the tire and the fender, the easier it is for something to get caught in there. I like lots of space; some people are happy with less. My recommendations are only that; recommendations. You're the one riding the bike, and accepting the risks that come with our favorite outdoor activity.

What's a Rambouillet? There are two ways to think of it. It's either a racing frame with a bit longer wheelbase, because the chainstays are longer; and provides a higher handlebar position, because the top tube slopes upwards a bit, and the headtube is extended; and there's lots of tire and fender clearance. Or it's a touring bike with a wheelbase that's too short for carrying heavy loads, so it's perfect for weekend tours where you're staying at B&Bs or hotels and don't need a tent, sleeping bag and lots of clothes."