Joe Appaloosa on tour

[Valerie Yates]

I just completed a credit card tour with my Joe Appaloosa and wanted to share my experience. I did the San Juan Skyway going clockwise from Durango CO. I loved the low gears, which made climbing easy, and the upright position, from which I could enjoy the spectacular scenery. I swapped the stock saddle, which I like on a different bike, for a Brooks B67. I think I may have preferred my Flyer Imperial on this route for the climbs. I also swapped the very decent stock tires for Marathon Supremes 50-584. I wanted something wide, smooth, and puncture resistant and these performed great on pavement, chipseal, loose gravel, and over bumps and seams in the road and on bridges.  I liked the stock pedals, which were perfectly comfortable over long distances because they were grippy but I could move my feet around as needed. I had front and rear panniers and a front basket for a total of 22 pounds of gear for the week. I didn't even notice the extra weight. The bike was very stable both on slow uphills and fast descents and was very fun to ride because I was so comfortable. I also really loved the German mirror for keeping track of vehicles and riders behind me. The bike performed exactly as I had hoped and I am excited to think about where else I will go with it. 

I'd love to hear about trips others have done or plan to do on your Joes. I highly recommend the San Juan Skyway. The views are amazing and the mountain towns are fun to visit. Every overnight stop has its own brewery. . . 

Val in Boulder, CO

[René Sterental]

Val... without photos we can't really tell if this trip exists or you just dreamed it! :-)

Glad you had such a great experience!

René 

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[Patrick Moore]

I had front and rear panniers and a front basket for a total of 22 pounds of gear for the week. I didn't even notice the extra weight. The bike was very stable both on slow uphills and fast descents and was very fun to ride because I was so comfortable.

Valerie: very interesting writeup of the JA. It's this sort of review that makes me keep an open mind to the model; if I were to judge it only by the photos and description on the website, I'd not be interested.

Can you post photos of your build and your load? Any other photos of the bike and of the route won't be disparaged, either.

To all: I'm also interested in the JA's ride on dirt roads and easy singletrack: howzit do?

Lastly: regarding the long tt: has anyone managed to set a JA up with a high drop bar? I have never been able to get comfortable with any bar except a drop; my left palm gets numb. 

I am not going to buy a new bike soon, but who knows? Would a JA be a nice touring bike, one of these days?

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[Valerie Yates]

I see what you are saying. :)  It does feel rather like a dream. Here are a few pics that my trip-mates took and shared.  I plan to assemble my photos in an album in the next few days or so and will include a link.

Lizard Head Pass:

Bike path into Telluride:

Red Mountain Pass:

Heading to Molas Pass:

Patrick -- before I switched my tires over to the Supremes, I had Big Bens on it and I rode it up and over a pretty rugged /rutted jeep trail in Gold Hill (the Switzerland Trail, Boulder CO). I am generally a pretty timid mountain biker and was so surprised at how much I enjoyed the trail on that bike. I felt really secure and it was easy to handle and loads of fun.

Is that too many pictures? Sorry if I overloaded anyone's data plan. I will plan to create an album next time. 

Val in Boulder CO

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks for the photos and the additional apercus. I'm particularly interested in your dirt surface impressions. Hell, y'all may just convert me to JAs/Clems/etc. and Wald baskets! But I will keep my drop bars, thank you.

And by no means too many photos.

Meshing this thread with the long stays thread: my 2 custom Riv Roads have long stays by road bike standards -- ~ 45 cm -- and my Matthews has stays at least as long. These 3 bikes are the epitome of handling, IME. 

Patrick "just rode the Hon Solo with M bar, and it wasn't bad at all" Moore, meshing both threads with the M bar thread.

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[Shoji Takahashi]

Great pics, Val. Still smiling after climbing those hills-- says a lot!

tailwinds, shoji

[RichS]

Valerie,

Sweet looking Joe App and nice, informative ride report and pics! Looks like a great trip. In the second to last picture are the panniers the Berthoud special small model? Whatever they are I like them. What are your thoughts?

Many thanks!

Richard

[Deacon Patrick]

Val,

Sweet! The San Juans are a stunningly beautiful and that is a wonderful and challenging route! Well done and what a great (I presume) Inaugural tour.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Valerie Yates]

Thanks everyone for the kind words! Yes, Patrick, it was my first tour on the Joe. It was great! I toured on a Surly Straggler 650B last year and that bike had no life in it. The Joe is fun to ride (and pretty to view) and that adds positive energy to the experience. 

Richard -- yes, those are Berthoud special small panniers. I am surprised by how much I love them. When I first got them, I laughed at how small and cute and seemingly pointless they are but they are actually the perfect size for a long day trip. I can fit tools, tubes, lunch, a windbreaker, and more in them. I use one of the outside pockets for my little camera and the other for quick access to lip balm, sunscreen, etc. I do not notice them at all in terms of weight or handling and I like how minimal they look on the bike. They are not quite big enough for me to use on an overnight (with a change of outfit + toiletries) but would be adequate in conjunction with a large handlebar bag. My set came with klickfix attachments, which I don't generally like for aesthetic reasons, but they work great and enable me to quickly pop a bag on and off the rack without any fiddling. 

For what it is worth, I expected I would really prefer the Berthoud large rack top bag but I have not found any way to use that bag. I can't get it on securely. It is too bulky to fit things neatly.It looks awkward when empty. I need to assemble a list of bags I don't use for sale or trade . . . .  

[René Sterental]

Great photos and updates Val!

René 

[RichS]

Valerie,

Thank you for sharing your experiences with the small panniers. I'm so tempted! Thinking they would pair well with my medium SV Saddlesack. Happy trails on your Joe App!

Regards,
Richard

[Lungimsam]

Nice ride report!! Great pics!! Thanks for sharing.

Sounds like you hit just about all types of road riding terrain on the trip. Downhills, long climbs, flats, etc. I am guessing that some grades were in excess of 9%.  Could you tell us how you used the choco moose(?) bars? How many hand positions do you use on it, and in what circumstances?

I usually ride drops and wonder how it feels riding such difficult terrain in an upright position with upright bars. I am thinking of making my Sam an upright bike and interested to know how works out.

[Valerie Yates]

On Wednesday, June 15, 2016 at 6:30:10 PM UTC-6, Lungimsam wrote:

 I am guessing that some grades were in excess of 9%. Could you tell us how you used the choco moose(?) bars? How many hand positions do you use on it, and in what circumstances?

I usually ride drops and wonder how it feels riding such difficult terrain in an upright position with upright bars. I am thinking of making my Sam an upright bike and interested to know how works out.

Grades on this route never exceeded 8% but there were plenty of 6-10 mile stretches at 6-8% without letting up. So it wasn't very steep but the climbing was long duration at my slow, loaded, sight-seeing pace. I usually ride drops too but I found last year on tour on a different bike that I really wished for a more upright position to take in the scenery. These bars were great for my purposes. I had great stability, control, views, and comfort. I also felt like the upright position was great for getting oxygen into my lungs. My chest was up and open and breathing was easy. It was also great on downhills because I felt  like I had to brake less. 

I did have to spend a serious amount of time tweaking to find my preferred height for the bars. Too high and the bike was less steady and my hands would fall asleep. Too low caused too much pressure on my hands. After a number of micro-adjustments, I found a position that was completely comfortable. It was surprising to me what a difference a very small change could make.

I mostly rode with my hands on the grips -- no gloves needed, which felt wonderful to me. I would sometimes place my hands just on the far side of the brake levers/shifters -- in the corners. That was comfortable but a bit crowded. And I would sometimes place them on the flats (by which I mean the far stretch of bar that runs perpendicular to the frame). But that mostly felt too far and more leaned forward than I wanted to be on this ride. In Boulder, where the climbs are steeper (9-13% and sometimes 15%), I would use the flats a bit more often on the steeper parts. But I never felt tipped backwards even using the grip position. I am not riding for power or speed, just comfort and pleasure. 

What I thought I might prefer would be to possibly ditch the grips and move the brake levers and shifters further forward towards the corner so that I had a longer section of parallel bars that I could position my hands along. I sometimes felt like I wanted my hands exactly where the brake levers and shifters were located. But I really like having the brake levers close to the bar end, so I am not sure. 

Also, when I found my correct bar height, I realized that I might have preferred using my Imperial Flyer saddle after all. I had a wider b67 on this for the more upright position but with the climbing, I had to sit exactly right to avoid back of thigh friction. So I am going to try switching back and see how that goes. 

For what it is worth, I have Albastache bars on the Sam I bought from Rich via this list.  I love those too but that is a very different feeling bike. On that one, when climbing or descending, I usually have my hands out in front on the curves (which is also where the brake levers are located). The bar end position is great for everything else. I am not sure what the difference is. Maybe the long chain stay length on the Joe makes it feel more stable when climbing in an upright position because your weight is more centered? I haven't thought about it so that's just a quick guess. I had been focused on riding the Joe to make sure it was comfortable for the tour but now I plan to ride the Sam more to see what it likes. I just put some Rock ' Road tires on it and am looking forward to some mixed terrain riding.  

[Lungimsam]

Thanks, Val!

Most informative. Nice ride report and info. Best thread I have seen in a while here.

One last question:

Do you ride with your saddle positioned in KOPS, or slid all the way back on the rails, etc? Just curious to see what people like on their upright bikes for positioning.Thanks.

[Valerie Yates]

Thanks! I felt a little shy about chiming in with my experience in light of all the very knowledgeable people here so I appreciate your and everyone's kind welcome.

I don't ride in KOPS position on any of my bikes - whether I have drop bars or upright. I always prefer my saddle back and a somewhat recumbent angle to my pedaling. Also, after trying every kind of clipless pedal system, I've concluded that I always prefer flat pedals for a whole host of reasons. This means I can move my feet around depending on conditions. I often have my feet further forward on the flat pedal than I'd ever have with a clipless pedal but I can change it up as needed. I love that freedom.

This reminds me that I put a Nitto Jaguar seatpost on my Joe because I think it gave me a little bit more setback than the stock post, which probably only matters if you have a Brooks saddle with short rails. It was a very small difference that I could be imagining but it seemed to feel better.

In consideration of your prior questions, I did a pretty steep climb on my upright Sam and thought about the difference between that and the Joe. I found I was always comfortable in the bar-end grip position, even at grades of 8-12%, but the Sam feels lighter and less planted on the ground than the Joe, with or without a front load on Joe. It is possible that a slightly lower position of my upright bars on Sam would help by adding a bit more weight to the front wheel. I think I prefer climbing with uprights to drops because the airflow to my lungs is better and I can enjoy the view more, which matters when you climb as slowly as I do. 

So commuting, touring, climbing (all slow for me) are all great with upright bars. Zooming along at high speeds is also fun upright. And, for me, descending with an upright bar is easier because the position slows me down and the brakes are easier to squeeze. I got a hand cramp yesterday doing a steep descent using drop bars with brakes that are hard for me to reach and squeeze (something I need to address on that bike). But I do like my drop bars too, especially when I am doing longer rolling routes where I like to go faster and can relax into various grip positions for some period of time. It is sort of hard to explain but the upright position is a more vigilant/aware position where the drop bar positions are more meditative and day-dreamy for me. I am following your other thread to see what others say about their upright riding preferences.

[Patrick Moore]

It sounds to me as if you have quite a bit of cycling experience!