11 speed cassette for pre-2017 Homer?

[Jason Glenn]

I have a technical question and can't find an answer, so I'm hoping that some with experience may be able to help.

I'll put the details below, in case anyone wants them, but my question is this:  Does anyone run an 11 speed cassette with a pre-2017 Homer?  My Homer is 2011.

Details:

The front derailleur on my new-to-me 2011 Homer broke the other day.  For a number of reasons, I am considering putting the nearly Shimano 105 front and rear derailleurs on the bike, which would require an 11 speed cassette, which I also have.  The 11 speed drivetrain doesn't work on my 1980s bike that I foolishly bought them for.  

To put the cassette on the hub, I need to replace the free hub body on the rear hub (DT Swiss 350).  Apparently it's easy to do, but the people at DT Swiss don't know if the frame is compatible with an 11 speed cassette and say the only way to know is by trying.  

I'd prefer not to buy the part only to discover that it doesn't fit -- that's how I wound up with the 105 parts in the first place.  Hoping that someone here might have the set up.

Thanks,

jason

[Joe Bernard]

Is that hub currently 130 spacing and they're going to widen and redish with a longer freehub and axle? Your Homer has 135 spacing so I don't see a problem here, an 11-speed cassette/hub/wheel should fit fine. 

Joe Bernard

[Garth]

Do you really want to use 11-speed stuff Jason, or are you letting the 105 stuff you have dictate what you ride ? Your frame is 135mm spacing so an 11sp capable cassette body will work. But I'm getting the impression you're letting the derailleurs you have yank your chain, so to speak. With the 8-10sp stuff you have a lot more flexibility, and you won't have to replace the 350 freehub body, assuming it is the 8-10sp version. Derailleurs are easy to sell and buy. The obvious thing to me is simply get a replacement FD for the one that "broke" and be on your merry way. How does a FD break, by the way ?

[Garth]

This is a good resource to keep btw about compatibility .   https://bike.bikegremlin.com/category/technical-part/compatibility/

[Jason Glenn]

No idea how the front derailleur broke.  The clamp on the Campy that came with the bike broke.  Must have happened while the bike was in the back of my car (station wagon) after a ride.  Certainly wasn't rough with it.  Went to ride it the next day and found that it had fallen on to the chain.  Never seen anything like it.  Obviously, very disappointed.

Otherwise, I'm definitely letting the derailleurs I have determine what I do, here.  Trying to find the most economical path forward.  Replace freehub body and use (virtually new) 11-speed 105 cassette, rd, fd, and bar-end shifters that I bought for my other bike but don't work with it -- and then use the 9-speed stuff from the Homer on my 1980s Raleigh?  That would cost the upgrade to the longer freehub for the 350.  OR replace the fd for the Homer, which I'm happy to do.  But then have to sell all the 105 stuff and figure out what to do for the drive drain of my 1980s Raleigh.  I've never sold used bike parts, so I have no sense for how much I'd "lose" by doing so.  

[Jason Glenn]

Thanks, Joe.  I'm currently using the hub with the Homer, so it wouldn't need a new axle.  My understanding -- and I could most certainly be wrong -- is that the longer freehub would simply replace the existing one and that the wheel would still  fit the frame but that the (slightly?) wider cassette might not have the clearance from the frame (and chainstay?) to function.  Hoping that a photo to DT Swiss may help.

jason

[Jason Glenn]

Thanks!

[Brian Campbell]

This might be wworth a look.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cazQt5oleo4

[Nick Payne]

On Sunday, 7 November 2021 at 7:18:19 am UTC+11 jkg...@gmail.com wrote:

To put the cassette on the hub, I need to replace the free hub body on the rear hub (DT Swiss 350).  Apparently it's easy to do, but the people at DT Swiss don't know if the frame is compatible with an 11 speed cassette and say the only way to know is by trying.

If your existing freehub takes a 9- or 10-speed cassette, then Shimano 11-speed cassettes with 34 or more teeth on the largest cog will fit on it - the large cog can overhang the inside of the freehub because its size means that the derailleur will still clear the spokes. See https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/ultegra-r8000/CS-HG800-11.html.

I have this exact combination (HG800 cassette on 9/10-speed freehub) installed on a couple of bikes. The HG700 cassette is slightly cheaper and heavier but otherwise dimensionally identical.

Nick

[lconley]

New Shimano 11 speed  mountain cassettes fit on the old 9 speed Shimano cassette hubs (when there was no difference between road and mountain) because the outer 3 cogs are connected and overhang the hub flange. My Gus Boots Wilsen uses and older 9 speed Phil Wood hub and a new 11-46 shimano cassette. A new 11 speed road cassette will not work.

Laing

[Nick Payne]

The largest size 11-speed road cassettes (11-34) will fit on 9/10-speed freehubs. Smaller ones won't.

[Joe Bernard]

He already has a cassette, I believe it's road range to work with his 105 derailer. 

What I don't understand is DT Swiss saying the new freehub will fit his current hub 8/9/10 hub. 

. 

[Nick Payne]

On Tuesday, 9 November 2021 at 7:51:00 am UTC+11 Joe Bernard wrote:

He already has a cassette, I believe it's road range to work with his 105 derailer. 

What I don't understand is DT Swiss saying the new freehub will fit his current hub 8/9/10 hub.

Not without also changing to a shorter endcap on the NDS end of the axle and re-dishing the wheel.

Nick

[Jason Glenn]

Thank you, all.  Very helpful.  I think I'm getting close to understanding what's up and what's possible.  A few pieces of clarification:

1. Joe, you're right.  I have an 11-32 cassette already and want it to work with my 105 (11 speed) derailleur and bar-end shifters that I would migrate from another bike.

2. Laing, thanks for the heads up about the MTB 11 speed cassettes.  I gather they will fit but aren't compatible with the 105 derailleurs -- indexing would be off, which is one reason i prefer friction (and didn't realize when i got the shifters that they couldn't do both like the nine speeds!)

3. Nick, I wish I had the 11-34 so I could use it on the 9/10 speed freehub.  DT SWISS tells me that it's a quick replacement to change the freehub body (i.e., only the part onto which the cassette is placed) and wouldn't require the wheel to be re-dished.  I asked explicitly.  Their technician said the issue is that some frames aren't designed to accept an 11 speed road cassette and that's the issue.  I guess that because the cassette would be an additional 1.85 mm closer to the dropouts there could be clearance issues.  That's what I'm trying to find out.

I'd like to think it's a non issue, but I'm not sure how to tell.  Going to go take a closer look now -- out of town this past weekend.

Thanks,

j. 

[Nick Payne]

Shimano are pretty conservative with their derailleur ratings. If the nominal max cog size for your RD is 32t, I'd be surprised if it couldn't cope with a 34t cassette by using the B screw to move the top jockey wheel further down. On our tandem, I have an Ultegra 8000 RD that nominally allows a max cog size of 34t, but it's working fine with an 11-40 cassette.

Nick

[Joe Bernard]

Indexing would not be off. As long as you have the index shifter matched to its derailer you're good, the Shimano 11 cassettes have the same spacing no matter the cog numbers. 

[Jason Glenn]

Joe, 

Thanks, that's helpful!  I was under the impression that I could mount an 11 speed MTB cassette but that somehow or other there would be a problem shifting because the spacing between the individual cogs would be different from a Road cassette since the road one is wider overall.  

But if the only real difference is the overall width and the spacing between cogs is the same, great!  So, it probably makes more sense to switch out the cassette than the freehub -- and I've confirmed that the derailleur will accommodate 11-34.

So, it sounds like the cassette suggested by Nick would work -- the site says it's a road cassette, but the description says 10 and 11 speed hubs:  

https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/ultegra-r8000/CS-HG800-11.html

I suppose it's also possible to use SRAM 11 speed MTB cassettes, too?  They'd be the same specs as the Shimano ones?

Anyway, I guess I should ask if anyone's in the market for a nearly new Shimano 105 CS-R7000 11-Speed Cassette 11-32?

Thanks, again, everyone,

Jason

[Joe Bernard]

You'll want to do some research to be absolutely sure (beyond listening to me), but I'm fairly certain Shimano and SRAM 11 cassettes use the same spacing. Just make sure any SRAM (or SunRace, IRD, etc.) you're looking at fits a Shimano-and-compatible freehub, there's something called XD Driver in SRAM world that's different, I know nothing of these newfangled contraptions. 

Joe Bernard