Loose headset? Something more sinister?

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

I got anodized headset rings/spacers (and I may be botching the names here, but I’ll include a photo in the post after this and you’ll see) and had them installed. I felt that the bike was a little vibratory but it wasn’t until tonight that I found the source. I happened to lift the front end by the bars and felt the bars shift somehow. I had a hex key and checked both bolts in the stem - they were tight. I got home, looked it over and found that the stem is moving around in the headset. It did NOT do this when I had the old headset. 

I went online and read horror stories. I stopped reading when my heart started racing. Something about wrecking the steerer, which sounded catastrophic and permanent whatever that is. Is this a minor problem that can be fixed with a wrench, would you guess? Or am I going to need to change out my headset - maybe this one is too big? Ugh, please not that. 

I will either have to drive 40 minutes across town to the mechanics who did the service tomorrow, or if you say it’s an easy fix, I could trust the REI which is only 20 minutes away.

Hoping the answer is straightforward and the problem easily fixable,

Leah

[Leah Peterson]

Here is the headset. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 13, 2021, at 9:12 PM, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

I got anodized headset rings/spacers (and I may be botching the names here, but I’ll include a photo in the post after this and you’ll see) and had them installed. I felt that the bike was a little vibratory but it wasn’t until tonight that I found the source. I happened to lift the front end by the bars and felt the bars shift somehow. I had a hex key and checked both bolts in the stem - they were tight. I got home, looked it over and found that the stem is moving around in the headset. It did NOT do this when I had the old headset. 

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[Ray Varella]

If you hold your front brake on and rock the bike back and forth you should be able to see if the headset is loose or the stem is loose. The stem is tightened with the bolt in the center, you can do that yourself, just make sure the max height/minimum insertion line is below the headset. 

If it’s the headset, you should take it to a shop. REI should be able to handle that just fine. 

You need two headset wrenches, one for the top nut and one for the nut below the spacers. 

I adjust my headset play and hold the lower nut while tightening the top nut against the spacers. It takes a bit of experience to do this confidently. 

It needs to be tight enough to prevent play but not so tight that it binds. 

Hope that helps,

Ray

[Joe Bernard]

Backing up what Ray said then zeroing in on the headset, I'm 99% sure the pro shop - which hardly ever sees a threaded-style headset anymore - didn't get the adjustment quite right. Off to REI!

[Leah Peterson]

The stem is moving down by the headset. I put the brakes on and it’s not so noticeable, but if I lift it by the handlebars I can see and feel that stem move. The bolts at the stem are tight and max insertion is inside the tube, so that’s not the problem. I don’t know much about headsets, but I bet this is the source.

Next question: do you think REI is going to maul the color of my new ano parts with their wrenches?!

Sent from my iPad

On Mar 13, 2021, at 9:33 PM, Ray Varella <rayvar...@gmail.com> wrote:

If you hold your front brake on and rock the bike back and forth you should be able to see if the headset is loose or the stem is loose. The stem is tightened with the bolt in the center, you can do that yourself, just make sure the max height/minimum insertion line is below the headset. 

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[Joe Bernard]

"Maul the color."

I suppose it's always possible but the job had already been done once and nothing bad happened so it should be fine. The wrenches they'll use are good stuff that fit on the flats of the cups well. 

What will happen is that bottom cup right on the headtube will be turned a bit to snug it down, then he'll hold that one steady while he slowly turns the top one to secure the adjustment in place. It's easy to get wrong on the first try, I usually end up with mine too loose, too. They'll fix it for ya. 

[Ray Varella]

Does your fork move when you lif the bike by the bars or just the stem?

If you loosen the stem and lower it, then tighten it, do you still have the same issue?

Ray

On Saturday, March 13, 2021 at 10:15:06 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

Hmm, I changed my mind about one part. The pro shop are the folks who have babied your bikes and didn't scratch anything up, I'm afraid I have to recommend the 40 minute drive. 

[Rusty Click]

It sounds like a problem I had not too long ago.  A slight feeling of looseness with an occasional squeak eventually was tracked to a not fully tightened quill stem bolt.  I loosened and removed the stem from the headset completely.  Cleaned and greased the threads that pull the wedgie thing of the stem, then reinstalled and made sure to tighten the stem bolt "firmly".  Sorry, but I do not know the lb/ft of torque recommended...I just winged it.  I believe this may be a good place to start that you can do yourself and if it doesn't solve the problem, then call in the specialists at the LBS.

Good Luck,

Rusty

[Paul Clifton]

Leah,

If it turns out to be the headset (which is my bet), then like Joe said, it's a thing that happens sometimes with new builds. I just wanted to add that it's unlikely that anything is damaged after a short ride with it just a bit loose. Def important to get it fixed ASAP, but I think there's no need to hyperventilating over whether you damaged your steer tube. :)

I had Riv install the headset/fork on my Bubbe and still had to get the local shop to tighten it up after the first few rides.

Paul in AR

[Philip Barrett]

Agreed, there's almost certainly nothing to worry about here Leah, simple adjustment. Don't dis REI too much, my local branch has an excellent bike mechanic who is always thrilled to work on something other than store bike assembly.

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

Which shop got that brake housing all bunched up on the front (ripples of plastic piling out of the noodle)? They might be in a rush...

-Kai

On Sunday, March 14, 2021 at 2:54:56 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

Clarifying my response about REI, It's in response to concerns about the ano finish on her headset. I'm sure REI would be careful, too, I just know the other shop knows those bikes well and are meticulous about them. 

[Leah Peterson]

Kai, the famous and wonderful Peter White caught that, got me on the phone and has me addressing it. Apparently this issue can be fairly catastrophic... I’m at REI as I type this and I have a bad feeling though. The mechanic seems to not see this as a big deal... I have the worst luck at bike shops.

Leah

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 14, 2021, at 12:17 PM, Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY <kaivi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Which shop got that brake housing all bunched up on the front (ripples of plastic piling out of the noodle)? They might be in a rush...

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[Leah Peterson]

I got it handled! The headset nut (or whatever) needed 1/8th of a turn and then it all snugged up nicely. Got the brake cable/housing sorted out, too. The anodizing was unhurt in the process. Relief! I know it’s not rational but I am extra attached to this bike and I get anxiety when things are wrong with it. 

Thanks for all the help, you are the best!

Leah

Sent from my iPad

On Mar 14, 2021, at 12:17 PM, Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY <kaivi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Which shop got that brake housing all bunched up on the front (ripples of plastic piling out of the noodle)? They might be in a rush...

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/432373c4-640a-4a25-ab74-f0174cd04ea0n%40googlegroups.com.

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

Yeah, I'm feeling for the REI folks. I think there's no huge deal here, it seems the housing has settled itself, the metal portion's likely found its way to the bottom by now. I assume Peter's concern is that the bike shop didn't see that the housing was fully housed itself. As for catastrophic issues, before it bunched like that it wasn't seated in the noodle. If it wasn't seated and you needed to stop quick with a strong squeeze of the brakes, that strong squeeze would go towards seating the housing and not towards stopping the bike. So yeah, possibly bad stuff. I imagine this happened slowly and you kept tightening at the lever to compensate for what you took as cable stretching? Good thing you're a careful and thoughtful rider who rarely needs to panic stop... 

As for that headset, get them to snug it up and you'll be made in the shade (at least what little shade Vegas has to offer). 

And regarding trust and bike shops, it's always a crap shoot. You're your best mechanic even if you're not the best mechanic. Try and try again, you're smart and enthusiastic, you'll be fine. 

Tighten it, loosen it, spin it, break it. Failure's taught me a lot of what I need to know 

-Kai

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

Hurrah!! (saw your new message of joy after I sent that last message of not as much joy)

-Kai

[Anthony Coffin]

What Ray said, if the problem is a loose headset the fork and handlebars should be acting as a solid unit and the movement is coming from the head tube/headset.

Theoretically either REI or your pro shop should be able to fix this issue easily. The problem is we don't know which one is going to definitely have someone on hand who is experienced with threaded headsets. That might be the reason it wasn't tightened up to begin with. Or there is some other explanation. I would opt for the pro shop because they didn't mar it up before and I would want them to be aware that it came loose since installation.

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[Anthony Coffin]

Sounds like the headset is loose. Shouldn't be catastrophic unless you try to ignore it. Either was not tightened properly when assembled or something else is going on. Potentialy a simple fix but I want to know why it happened. 

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[Anthony Coffin]

Isn't that the truth, Joe! I find bottom brackets slightly tedious. Headsets though often take several rides before I get them just right.

On Sun, Mar 14, 2021, 5:48 PM Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yay for bike shops solving problems! I'll be facing this, too, when my new anodized headset spacer shows up for my Susie. Both my bikes came to me with perfecty-adjusted-by-Riv headsets and I've left well enough alone. I'll have to pull the topnut on the Susie to swap spacers and will then go through my ritual of starting too loose and having to readjust three times before I get it right. Argh! 🤦

Joe "that's probably right, oh crap it's not right" Bernard

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