Platypus for Clem L?

[Chung Eun Kim]

Hi,

I bought a complete Clem L for my wife and she enjoyed riding it so far.

However, she felt that it's a bit too much bike for her since she only rides it on the pavement for the commute. She finds it too heavy when storing it in a rack and bring it on the the commuting train.

Since she still likes the step-through design, I wonder if swapping it with the complete Platypus would solve her problem. Or, can we solve this with lighter components (probably the wheelset and tires?) and some cockpit setup to make it more zippy?

Best,

Chung

[Johnny Alien]

The Clem is more stout for sure but I doubt that the overall frame weight is all that different. Probably really minor actually. I think the biggest difference is that people tend to build up the Platypus frames with lighter and higher end components vs the way a Clem is built. So I think you could 100% make a Clem lighter with different components. And a lighter set of wheels with a supple tire should make a difference in ride feel as well. I think wheels and tires are the best upgrade you can make on any bike. There is still geometry to take into consideration but overall I think a Clem can be upgraded to generally meet what an all around Platy will do. 

[DavidP]

The Platypus is a shorter bike and will ride a bit zippier due to that. Leah comes to mind as one who has compared the ride between her Platypus and Clem but others may have shared experience as well.

In terms of weight - the Clem frame may be a bit heavier but I'd guess not by much. The builds will make a much more significant difference. Putting a lighter wheelset and tires (especially if it is running the stock Kenda Kwick7.5/Kwick9s) will make the biggest difference, but things like racks can add up too.

My Platypus is over 30lbs but for my use (out my door, suburban, mixed surface riding) I don't mind, and happily choose it over 25lb bikes when it suits.

All that said, I'm not sure swapping a Clem for a Platy will gain you much in addressing the concerns of weight and maneuverability for a multi-modal commute.

-Dave

On Thursday, November 9, 2023 at 11:21:50 AM UTC-5 chungeu...@gmail.com wrote:

[Hoch in ut]

I don’t know about the Platypus, but my wife rides a Betty Foy. It rides ligh/zippy  and she loves it. Currently has a Wald 137 front basket and a Riv trunk bag. 

They’re a bit hard to come by but Cheviot was essentially the same bike. 

Tires are 650b x 38 with fenders. Not sure I’d go larger. 

[Garth]

Chung, If your wife finds the Clem too long and heavy a Platypus is not going to make a effective difference in regards to weight or maneuvering. What would is a frame like a Soma Buena Vista (rim brake or disc) or Velo Orange Polyvalent low kicker. Both have relatively typical chainstays and wheelbases and are going to be easier to pick up and maneuver simply due to the fact that they have "normal" wheelbases and chainstays so are going to be inherently lighter to begin with. There's a notable difference in geometry though, with the VO being more low trail and the Soma mid-high. Plus the Soma has quite steep seat tube angles so if using a Brooks you may not be able to get the seat back where you want. Thankfully they do both use a 27.2 post though.

Note, the Platy isn't a step through either so all three compared to a Clem are more like step around I suppose !

https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5b8578fd48f3a30004789cd9,5ee8f7ce7eaeb8001717ac2f,

On Thursday, November 9, 2023 at 2:53:48 PM UTC-5 Hoch in ut wrote:

I don’t know about the Platypus, but my wife rides a Betty Foy. It rides ligh/zippy  and she loves it. Currently has a Wald 137 front basket and a Riv trunk bag. 

They’re a bit hard to come by but Cheviot was essentially the same bike. 

Tires are 650b x 38 with fenders. Not sure I’d go larger. 

[Roberta]

I have a 55 Platy and have ridden a Clem L.  Leah, BicycleBelleDingDing, has both.  Clem L is significantly longer and heavier, but let Leah weigh in. 

Platy is a perfect pavement bike--looks pretty and feels great.  However, it is long (although it is 5 inches shorter than 52 Clem L) and will not fit on my city's bike bus rack.  I've had no issues on the commuter trains.

If you're near Philadelphia and you want to try my "everything but the kitchen sink" Platy, you're welcome to try.  It will be up for sale soon.  Why the sale?  The ONLY reason is I cannot fit it on my city's bus rack and I live in the city where bus transportation is a must.  It's a non issue for just about everyone else.  (Replacement bike is also a Riv, but it's not finished yet, so haven't posted.)

Feel free to contact me off list for a lot more details about different Riv mixte's and step thrus--I've tried them all.  BTW, I also have this for sale https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/bik/d/2019-handsome-cycles-55cm-she-devil/7670046879.html  and LOVED riding it until my new Riv purchase.   Not quite a Riv but a great commuter bike.

Roberta, seems like I've tried all the mixtes I could, from Philadelphia

On Thursday, November 9, 2023 at 11:21:50 AM UTC-5 chungeu...@gmail.com wrote:

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Ok, ok, I see it, I’m here at last. I texted and DMd by two people today telling me I need to read this and weigh in. I don’t know that I can give you exact numbers and dimensions and weights, but I can tell you I know exactly what your wife is saying, Chung. 

Can I be bold here and just make the statement? Buy her the Platypus. Sell the Clem.

I know. You would rather make the bike you already have work for her, and I understand. But I have done what you are considering and I don’t think it will work for your wife. I had only my Clem L while I waited for the Platypus to be created. I was using the Clem to ride up the mountain home to my house and it was exhausting. I decided if I got lightweight, fancy wheels, supple tires, set them up tubeless and then lightened my components, that it would solve the problem. It helped, BUT, when that Platypus came, anything that Clem was offering me no longer compared. The Platy is just a superior bike and I can’t tell you how Rivendell did it. It isn’t that much lighter than a Clem, but it feels lighter. And zippy. And nimble. I ride my Platypus on club rides and I use my other Platypus for shopping. Sometimes I still ride the Clem but I always miss the Platys when I do. The Clem is a great riding bike. I’m happy to have one. But I live by the Platypus. 

I know. I can’t give you weight charts and all that, but I’m telling you the truth as I know it. There might be other people on here who currently have both bikes, but the ones I’m aware of prefer their Platypus to their Clem. Plus, the Platy is shorter than the Clem. Easier for the train.

Leah

[Roberta]

Favorite mixte riding bikes are Platy, Betty Foy, She-Devil, and then down the list, Clem, Cheviot

[Johnny Alien]

Fit is a factor too. Rivendell has limited sizes that they stretch to work for everyone. I happen to sit oddly in the spectrum and can either be at the top of the range or at the bottom of a larger one. I had a S.Hillborne and it didn't even kind of sit in the zippy camp for me. No matter what bars I threw on it or tires or wheels it just wasn't exciting. My Clem is infinitely better in ride quality. I am very convinced it had to do with the sizing on the SH not working for me. I sized down when I got my Proto Gallop and that rides fantastic as well. Honestly its so subjective and I respect everyones experience but in the end its personal. If it were me I would 100% upgrade the Clem first. If it doesn't work you will have nice parts to move over to a Platy frame. That way you can try things with less of an investment and it will still be usable if she decides it doesn't work.

[Johnny Alien]

And I am now dying to know what Roberta got.

[Roberta]

I’m waiting for some of the parts to come in. I’ll post a new bike day when done, with story. In the meantime, try a Platy!  I think she’ll love it. 

[Kim H.]

The suspense grows. I can hear it now.

[Steve]

What did Roberta get ???   Inquiring minds want to know !!!

[Kim H.]

@Steve -

Roberta is not telling us yet. She is keeping it a secret, until she's ready to share it with us.

Kim Hetzel.

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[Roberta]

I'll post pics when it's put together.  :)

In the meantime, perhaps Chung's wife can try a Platy.  

[Ryan]

Custom?can't wait to see it Roberta! Cliffhanger wheels?

[Johnny Alien]

I don't know why I would talk someone out of another bike. Tell her to grab a Platy. Listen to Leah not me.

The completes are pretty nice. There are some parts I would personally want to swap but overall thats not a terrible setup for a complete.

[Jake Kutchins]

I agree with what Garth is saying about weight/size differences. Depending on the respective builds and how the sizing falls, it's possible that a Platypus could be every bit as long and heavy as a Clem. As people in the 81-84cm pbh range, I have a 55cm Platypus and my dad has a 52cm Clem, and the Clem is probably lighter in part due to the smaller wheel size. Both are great bikes, and I do find the Platypus rides zippier and lighter, but in terms of lifting, transport, and storage there is not much difference between the two. Hope this helps!

Jake

[Doug H.]

Jake,

That is interesting that the bikes are about equal in weight but one rides "zippier and lighter". I've heard this before in comparing the Clem to the Platypus but I just don't know what qualities makes a bike feel zippier if it isn't lighter weight.

Thanks,

Doug

[Garth]

I knew there was a frame/bike I forget, the Handsome Cycles She Devil models.Once again these will be considerable lighter to pick up and move around when not riding, which as far I read is what Chung is referring to. I think buying another super long chainstay model would be a costly mistake. Asking Platypus lovers what they would recommend is like asking the Cookie Monster for a suitable cake recipe for something that's light and fluffy. . . . . . . .  "I recommend a peanut butter chocolate chip cookie !" Ahahahahahahaahaaa !

[Richard Rose]

Wheels & tires I suspect.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 10, 2023, at 1:46 PM, Doug H. <dhansf...@gmail.com> wrote:

Jake,

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[Joe Bernard]

What size is her Clem? The current 52 is VERY long, this puts weight waaaay out there when she's moving it around and lifting. 

[Chung Eun Kim]

Her size is 45cm Clem. I'm thinking of 50cm Platy given her height is 5'4".

[Chung Eun Kim]

Thank you so much for all the responses!

Since we are living not too far from the Riv HQ, we may visit and see if how she likes the Platy.

She rides 45cm Clem, so we may need to check if her PBH fits 50cm Platy. 

If that goes well, we may stick with Riv. Otherwise, I will take a look outside and check out other brands.

[Hoch in ut]

What’s your wife wanting out of the bike? If it’s aesthetics, and specifically to steel/lugged frames, Riv is great. 

But if it’s ride quality, I’m not so disillusioned with Rivendell (despite having owned several and own one now)that I can objectively say, there are plenty of other bikes that will serve her equally well, IF NOT BETTER. Even ones from the big companies. Light and nimble, or smooth and cushy, upright or racy, or really any characteristic you like about any Rivendell can be replicated and/or improved on. 

Some won’t like to hear this, but honestly, it’s the truth. 

I’m still a Rivendell fan and still on the lookout for an elusive model that I hope to own (again). Just don’t be afraid to try other bikes out. There are lots of great ones out there. And in places you may not expect. 

[Joe Bernard]

"Some won’t like to hear this, but honestly, it’s the truth."

Whether some want to hear it or not, honestly, it's an opinion. 

[Sarah Carlson]

I had a different steel frame and all I can describe is that when I was riding I felt like I was dragging every pound of that bike along, where with the Platypus it feels like it is leaping forward. I just don't feel it. Even as I have added racks, bags, fenders and I keep asking when it will feel like a heavy bike. That has not happened yet.

[Bill Schairer]

For those looking for light and zippy step through bikes, this one looks like one special bike:

"Albert Eisentraut Limited possibly one of a kind . I posted this bike on Bike forums and no one had seen one before , So most likely a special order . Small frame size. All Campagnolo Components. Stays are very chipped up as it sat between two mountain bikes in a shed at a yard sale. Bike appears to have little wear otherwise. Wheels are also campy period correct ,the ones found on the bike were tubular . Buyer can have either pair although no tires on the originals."

https://sandiego.craigslist.org/esd/bik/d/eisentraut-step-through-road-bike/7682405954.html

Bill S

San Diego

[Jobbing Drummer]

I’d like to weigh in…. Garth’s advice is SAGE. I agree that trading the Clem for a Platy would NOT solve the problem you hope to address. Riding weight and schlepping weight are two different metrics.

I owned and loved a Cheviot, but it was long and heavy and not something I’d like to lug on/off a train with any regularity.

ALSO - I just built a Soma Buena Vista for my sibling and did copious test rides pre-delivery. It’s got a lot going for it. Lower price, generous tire clearance despite the spec, healthy length on the chainstay contributed to a very comfy ride, but it was still snappy and easy to move when dismounted. Really a joy. Special frame… though it will require you to choose every part, including headset and bottom bracket. Happy to share any insights from my build, on or off thread + I’ve got some photos, and while they’re not surgical, i built the thing from the ground up, so I can answer most questions based on actual experience, barring the chance that the tire clearance is any less depending on the smaller size frame you’re looking for. (This was 650b build on a 58cm)

Highly recommend the soma BV (rim brake, OBVIOUSLY)

Best,

JD

[Chung Eun Kim]

Thanks for the out of box view on this question.

Since Soma is running Black Friday sale on their frames, I'm tempted. However, it really depends on her, not me.

We are planning to go test ride Platy from HQ, but not sure where I can find a Soma BV bike that she can test ride.

I personally think Riv is aesthetically more pleasing than BV, but that double top tube looks interesting.

Also, that tire clearance seems quite limiting (only 38mm) for the 42cm size. 

[Brian Turner]

My wife adores her Buena Vista. I really enjoy riding it, too and it’s gorgeous to look at. Granted, a Platy is a Platy and I’m not here to convince one way or the other… but these are very cool, capable bikes - just like the Platypus… just without all that wheelbase.

On Nov 20, 2023, at 5:58 PM, Chung Eun Kim <chungeu...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks for the out of box view on this question.

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[Kim H.]

Before my purchase of my 59cm Rivendell Clem Smith Jr. "L", I was looking at buying a Buena Vista bicycle, as a step through frame for my senior cycling years. I wanted a red one, so I could go faster.

However, that idea came to a halt, when a RBWOB group member offered me a Clem Smith Jr L bicycle. He assured me that it would fit me ? or it was my size ? I bought it.

After a year or so, I came to realize that the bike was too large for me. It's up for sale now.

I'm currently in the process of assembling and fine tuning my new 52cm blue Clem Smith Jr "L" bicycle with Honjo Flat 65 silver fenders. I am anxious to ride it for the first time.

I really like the long wheelbase and the capability to go off road with the Clem as a trail bike. 

Never got a test ride on a Buena Vista bike.

Wonderful picture of your wife's Buena Vista bicycle Brian !

Kim Hetzel.

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