Feeling the Rivets

[John Hawrylak]

I use a B17, and when I climb or pedal hard (paceline), I tend to move back on the B17 and feel the rivets.  What does this indicates

My bars are at saddle height my knee is about 10mm below the pedal spindle.  The saddle height is 9.5 to 10 cm less than PBH.

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

[ted]

I would think you might want more saddle setback

[Joe Bernard]

All my B17’s are Specials with the hammered copper rivets..I don't feel them even if I'm sitting on them. If you have the regular small rivets and they're sticking up because the leather is sagging, there isn't much you can do besides get a new saddle.

[Deacon Patrick]

John, I do the same with my saddles, though I don’t feel the rivets (I ride a Rivet Diablo and a Berthod Apin). I’m comfortable with my saddle exactly where it is, and simply shift positions for long steady climbing (no pace lines for me though), compared with cruising or descending. Perhaps try tilting your hips forward or back to shift your sitz bones and see if that helps?

With abandon,
Patrick

[Lester Lammers]

Is your B17 rather new? Brooks was bought out and the new owners started using thinner leather that had issues. There are posts about this on other forums. I'm not sure if they have changed.

[Lum Gim Fong]

When were they bought out? Who owns it now?

[Brad]

I used to always ride with my butt hanging off the back of my B17s. I didn't think too much about fit- I'd push the saddle all the way back on the rails, use a 9cm stem, and everything felt fine. Then I ended up on a bike with a really long top tube and loved the fit (turns out I have really long arms, which also explains why my shirts don't fit right). With enough reach, I find myself having two positions on a B17- almost on the rivets and further forward. It's nice on long rides to be able to shift positions a bit.

Maybe try longer stems/more setback until you don't feel like you need to push your butt back too far on the saddle?

Brad

Queens

On Friday, April 27, 2018 at 9:31:43 PM UTC-4, John Hawrylak wrote:

[Clayton]

Selle Italia bought Brooks. 

Clayton

[Carla Waugh]

I had a Brooks saddle that had the same issue and I had to give it away because one of the rivets was raised to much and they would not warrant the saddle so I carefully tried to sand the rivet down which wasn’t enough for me.The person I gave it to wears jeans so he has made do with it.

[Lum Gim Fong]

I have one that the left side ruvet hurt me after about 500 miles.
I think I proofhided and all was well, or loostebing the seat tube bolt slightly and adjusting the saddle nose a little left or right was the fix. Cant remember for sure.

One thing for sure is Brooks saddles seem to change a little over time. Like weather. If it is bad now, 300 miles later might be back to perfect comfort again in my experience. Then back to worse, then back to better. Like for many miles it is perfect, then changes and now perenium pressure, then later fine, then rivet, then fine again for 1k miles, etc. Proofhiding and a 1/8-1/2 saddle nose nut turn can help.Sometimes changes adter riding in rain. But stull tge most confy saddles ever up to 130 mile centuries fir me.

[Eric Norris]

Could you try hammering the edges down with a small ball peen hammer?

–Eric N

> On Apr 28, 2018, at 8:36 AM, Carla Waugh <lhtbik...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I had a Brooks saddle that had the same issue and I had to give it away because one of the rivets was raised to much and they would not warrant the saddle so I carefully tried to sand the rivet down which wasn’t enough for me.The person I gave it to wears jeans so he has made do with it.
>

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[Lester Lammers]

https://www.brooksengland.com/en_us/timeline

"2002 Brooks is bought by Italian saddle manufacturer Selle Royal, who own the company to the present day."

[clayton bailey]

Thanks Lester, I misspoke. I was sure it was Selle Italia. I had the first word right....

Clayton 

DirtDance!

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[Tom Norton]

Interesting! My wife's B17 had the steel rivets and it was causing her discomfort. I just recently removed the steel rivets on 2 B17's and replaced them with copper rivets. Now all our Brooks have the copper rivets and they really are more comfortable.

[Ron Mc]

My daughter hated the small rivets on her B17 Imperial.  

I have Select on 3 bikes, and a Swallow with the small rivets on a 4th - but no worries there, I love the Swallow.  Swallow has become my favorite Brooks for the right riding position, because they are the most invisible.  

Back to my daughter.  Went through a gambit of saddles trying to solve her drop-bar road bike dilemma (also saddle height and bar height equal).  

Rivet Indy loaner, Specialized.  Finally succeeded with Fabric Radius - she adores this saddle.  

 

https://fabric.cc/products/saddles/scoop-race-radius/

[Dave at Rivendell]

I asked Brooks about thicknesses. 

Steven Green, factory manager who has been with Brooks for almost 40 years responded: 

There is absolutely no truth in this at all!
 
We have always specified, to my knowledge, 5.5mm to 6 mm as the target thickness.  We do occasionally receive leather outside of these parameters and we allow a minimum of 4.8 mm and a maximum 6.5 mm
 
Unfortunately, cows are such inconsiderate beasts and they won’t come to an agreement with Brooks to always give us exactly 5.5 mm!

[Ray Varella]

That’s an A+ response if there ever was one @Dave.

I wonder if different breeds of cattle produce varying degrees of supple leather.
It’s possible that as cattle have been line bred for higher butterfat production or better marbling in steaks, the stiffness of the hides may have inadvedently become softer.

Concentrating genes through line breeding creates more consistency but in doing so, the desired qualities as well as undesired qualities will become set.

Ray “ruminating” Varella

[Lester Lammers]

I stand corrected. I won't believe everything I read on the internet.

[John Hawrylak]

Dave & Others

Back in around 2000, the mad cow event was going thru England resulting in much younger cows coming to market and their hides being thinner (younger = thinner hides).  I do remember a reference to someone in Brooks being concerned the hide thickness was approaching their minimum values, due to the younger cattle.  It may have been the same gentleman Dave communicated with.

I bought a red B17 from Wallingford around the time.  Apparently Brooks made a run of red B-17s for a Dawes project and there was a large surplus, and Bill Lane passed on the discount.   Still have it, but it seems to need tensioning more often than one I had from an earlier period, probably due to a slightly thinner hide from the 'mad cows'.

   

Funny, Bill is retired, but I still have the saddle.

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 12:01:27 PM UTC-4, Rivendell GM Dave wrote: