Stack Height / Geo Question

[Jay]

This isn't specific to a Rivendell bike, but I'm sure the conversation can be applied to them, so hope you don't mind...

In addition to my Roadini, I have a Salsa Fargo.  I had it for a year before I got the Roadini, the Roadini replaced my road bike (that is now the dedicated bike on the smart trainer, which I ride as little as possible!).  

I've had on-and-off upper body discomfort on the Fargo, and I think it's due to the high stack height.  I'm using a 55mm Redshift stem on the Fargo right now, as low as it can go on the steerer tube (thin spacer below).  I have drop bars on it (same drops as on the Roadini).  The hoods are nearly 2cm higher than the saddle vs. the Roadini (Roadini around 1cm higher, Fargo around 3cm higher).  Roadini feels just perfect, Fargo feels like I'm lifting my shoulders up to place my hands on the hoods.  And my hands on the hoods is not not comfortable.  I've now tried two different brifters, different positions on the bars, and the bars rotated down and up all to no solution.

Does anyone have their hoods 3cm+ higher than their saddle and if so, is this comfortable for you?  We're all different and I'm sure some like the bars (hoods) much lower than the saddle, some level, some higher; but I see a diminishing return with the hoods too high.

[John Robert Williams]

Hi Jay...great question....I do not keep any stack heights that high from the saddle, but something you may want to try.....first, loosen up the stem at the bars and rotate the bars so that the brifters "feel right". It may look ugly, the drops pointed too far down, etc., but try it....then, if that's a no go, a shorter stem, or a negative rise (flop the stem downward) might be of value. I always measure my different bikes by getting the length measurement from the "Goldilocks" bike, center of the saddle, where the seat post WOULD intersect the saddle, to the center or tops of the hoods. Also, check from the center of the stem, (the gap between the face plate) and the same center of the saddle. Those numbers are very handy and enlightening. Eyeballs aren't always that helpful...the trusty measuring tape tells no lies.  Best of luck finding comfort bliss!

JohnRobertWilliams

Traverse City, MI

(waiting for the snow to melt and the wind chill to get above 30)

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John Robert Williams

[Jay]

Thanks for the response, John.

I have same saddle on both bikes and measure to stem centre, hoods, etc.  I had the Fargo before "goldilocks" (I call my Roadini that lol), and now that goldilocks is, just that, and  can't match the Fargo to her.  I'm using a 55mm stem with 6 rise (only option for that Redshift stem) and that puts the bars at the right distance from the saddle, but too high.  If I go with a negative 60mm stem (which I have done), the hoods are further but height is better (still not on par with goldilocks).

I've really been noticing this recently, as the winter has been harsh and I'm using the Fargo as my winter road bike (with studded tires on one wheelset, and just wider gravel tires on another)...so long roadish rides on the Fargo, where I usually ride it the other 8 months of the year is on trails, treating it like a MTB (off the saddle a lot, not sitting still so much and pedalling).  As the weather improves I'll be on the Roadini a lot more, and I'm sure that pain will subside.

I've tried swept-back / alt bars on the Fargo once but that particular bar wasn't for me.  And it's a lot of work to swap and try different bars (not to mention $$).

[Garth]

Apart from selling the Fargo for a more suitable frame, or ditching the current stem for one with say +/- 17-25d, well no, it won't magically get any better.

From a 55mm 6d stem to a -25d stem the difference is 29mm in height. With a -17d stem it's 21mm lower. See here : http://yojimg.net/bike/web_tools/stem.php

I have to ask why the need for the suspension stem ? If it's pain or discomfort, then it's possibly technique, tires and pressures, or even your entire weight balance in the frame.

What year Roadini and Fargo ? I bet the two have different seat and head tube angles and BB drops and certainly very different geometry overall. So if you place the saddles in the same place on the rails(same seatpost) on both bikes, your weight distribution will feel different as one seat tube is closer to the BB than the other.  The differences in "negative reach"(vertical center BB - to the vertical center of the seat lug) is not something ever included in frame specs, but it should be.

Do your own looksee here. I had to chose something to create the link, so modify it for your specific versions.

 https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=65285f586d83c6001cf8bf44,5d192c623943200017a4ad48,

On Thursday, March 6, 2025 at 6:32:15 PM UTC-5 johnrober...@gmail.com wrote:

[David Ross]

I’ve spent more time than I’d like to admit trying to figure out these issues. Bar drop or rise is a very individual thing. I recently stopped riding drops because I need more stack height these days due to a neck issue. When I was riding drops, I had a lot of wrist and should discomfort if I had the bars above the saddle (as an aside I have short arms and an average torso). I also note that, for me, as the bars move higher, the more discomfort I have in the lower back and saddle pressure points. Anyway, I’m now riding a Gus with swept bars way above the saddle. It’s the only setup that works for me at this point. 

On Thu, Mar 6, 2025 at 6:22 PM Jay <jason....@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Patrick Moore]

I had to resort to a -30* stem with a 10 cm length to get the bar on the Matthews where I want them, about even with saddle and a bit further out than my road bikes; this after I went through 90* and -17* stems in 8 and 9 cm lengths. It’s perfect now. I did have to adjust stem length and angle for the wider (42 cm at hoods vs 38 on roadbikes; same Maes Parallels).

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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