Many nice Sam Hillbornes lately

[Patrick Moore]

There have been photos of quite a few nice Sams on the list recently, notably Paul Saporito's on the Blug and that slate gray one yesterday. (How do y'all keep your bikes so damned clean?). I gather that the Sam must be, if not the most popular Riv model, certainly up there with the top 3 (which are??? -- Sam, Atlantis, Appaloosa?).

Particularly interesting is the variety of builds: uprights and drop bars, touring and commuting with huge Wald baskets, and at least one recent poster converted his to his main road bike.

I briefly (12 months? 18?) owned a canti Sam, perhaps the original model, in a 55, but found it straddled my particular niches too much -- wouldn't take the fat tires I need here, for dirt riding in our river sand; too beefy to feel as spritely as I want for a pure road bike -- and I had the 2 custom roads anyway. Also, the tt of that model was a bit too long, even with the slacker (72? 71.5?) sta -- I hear that later models had, relatively speaking, shorter tts. If mine had taken 50 mm tires and had a cm off the tt, it would have made a nice bosque bomber that rode well on pavement. (I think a Sam shod with 38 or 44 Compass extralights would be very nice, tho' again the tires wouldn't work, for me, in our Rio Grande river silt.)

So: Am I right about the Sam being among the top 3 most popular models?

And: You Sam owners: how do you build and use yours: errands, dirt, road ...?

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[Patrick Moore]

Also: Where are the Sam and the Atlantis different? I know that the original Atlantis was a sort of touring/heavy duty all rounder model and took fatter tires than the original Sam; have the designs started to converge?

How fat a tire can the current Sams take? Jim's chart says 45, but perhaps that is out of date?

Is the Atlantis tubing thicker than the Sam's?

On my short list, given my present stable, #1 is the Roadeo; # 2 might just well be another Sam, with shorter tt relative to st. (I see that the 55 no3 has a 57 eff tt -- my length if I want the bar slightly lower than saddle, as I would on a Sam.)

[Carla Waugh]

My 55cm Sam is a favorite of mine because it’s just plain comfortable. I have a standard drop bar build with a EDelux light and hub combo. The reason I grab this bike almost every time is it’s versatility. I can ride on pavement, grass or light gravel with Compass tires. The parts Riv put on my Sam work very well. I added a Nitto small front rack and have small to medium bags and basket to switch between. I have even wondered about reimagining my 650B bike so I might ride it more. I think it’s time for a Sam club.

[Paul Choi]

I run a 42 Panaracer Gravelking on mine (51cm) with room. I will post a picture later if you want. 

[Patrick Moore]

Paul and Carla and others: Please do post Sam photos. Yes, we need a Sam's Club.

Paul: If yours can take 51 m tires, then the design was indeed changed from my model. 

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[Carla Waugh]

I have last years model and can’t remember how wide a tire with side pull brakes I can run.

[Reid Echols]

My canti Sam (64cm) clears 48 Soma Vitesse tires with ease, if not with fenders. I like to run it with 42-43s usually though. 

Currently it's a single speed with Bruce Gordon rock n' roads, a heavy duty mountain wheelset I had from another build, v-brakes, and flipped albas. Very fun for "path racing" around the lake here in Austin. 

Reid 

[adam leibow]

the quoted clearance with the new canti sams is 47mm. i think the wtb riddler might be the perfect tire for this bike. i have a new one in sage & 58 which has been a blast and the perfect commuter. i have learned what the OP has said about straddling niches is slightly true. it's not as light/nimble as my new titanium roadbike with a more aggressive position, 25mm tires, & carbon fork, for example, and it's not as capable off road as my crust evasion with 2.8" tires and discs, but it's still really fun to ride, and probably the best when i don't know what kind of ride i want to do, or where i want to end up, just that i need to get outside. i see a lot of them all over san francisco and the east bay. 

[lconley]

Older Sam 56 with Schwalbe Big Ben 50s. Too much inflation pressure and the front tire can rub on the center pull. This bike wanted cantis.

Not quite as old Sam 56 with Compass 44s

Newer models apparently have a bit more room.

Laing

Cocoa FL

[Bob K.]

Here are front/rear clearance shots on my ‘09 canti Sam (56cm) with 42 Soma Shikoros. I’ve run 47mm Marathons without issue, too. Been very curious about the 48mm Supple Vitesse. Can anyone compare them to Shikoros?

Also, Patrick: I believe yours would’ve been a 56 if it was first gen. The tt on my 56 is 57.5. Some had 59, I believe.

Bob K. in Baltimore

[Carla Waugh]

[Carla Waugh]

[Carla Waugh]

My Sam that I bought from Riv last May.

[Tim Bantham]

Patrick, I'm not sure if mine was one that you had commented on but if so I thank you for the compliment. Mine was purchased in 2016. It was the version prior to the canti Sam available now. The paint on mine is a stock color. More of a light blue and cream two tone. Looks amazing in person. I heard the orange one is much faster. (wink wink) One recommendation I learned about on this board was to go with the Compass Barlow Pass tires with extra light casing. I will say without a shadow of a doubt that those tires are the best riding tires I have ever had the pleasure to experience. They are just about perfect for the Sam. This is a great bike for its versatility. I am enjoying it so much now that I have it as my main road bike. Thats not to say I wouldn't enjoy it any less had I set it up again with the Albatross bars. 

Tim

[Austin]

I'm one who's just now experimenting with upright bars for the first time--the Albastache's I picked up during the hail mary that are now on my Sam. I found experimenting with a shorter stem made things a bit more comfortable so I taped them up last night. Teal Newbaums with 1 coat of amber shellac in the photos. I was hoping the tape would be more olive green than it turned out. I added a second coat of shellac tonight and they are now more hunter green. I like it enough to live with it. It was my first time using cotton tape and twine--not as clean as Mark does it in his video, but I'm happy for a first try.

I bought the 62cm frame from Riv in 2016. Other bits on this are a 46/30 IRD crankset with a 11-36 9-speed cassette, 700x42 Cazaderos on A23's with Tektro Calipers. Less roady for now, as I wanted a dedicated gravel/fire road bike, though a tire swap is all I need to make it road-ready.

Maybe it's all psychological, but the shorter stem seemed to make the steering a little quicker which is okay--I prefer a sporty, lively ride.  

Photos of the lastest build with some older, evolutionary shots from the last 2 years.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/LZDRZ23JhgI4lXd52

Austin

Sykesville, MD

[Tim Bantham]

Austin, nice build! All versions of your Sam look great. Part of what makes it such an awesome bike is the many build option it allows.

[Austin B.]

Tim, thanks for the kind words. I like yours too--it appears we have the same exact frame! I like to tinker with my builds, the Sam is so versatile so I'm constantly experimenting.

I may have to pick up a pair of Barlow EL's for it--I keep hearing people like you say they're the perfect match. I had Bon Jon's (standard casing) on it which I'm contributing to the Roadini I'm building up for my wife. The Cazaderos are just okay.

Thx!

Austin

[Patrick Moore]

Perhaps it was 56; I seem to recall it too was a 2009. At any rate, it did have a 59 tt. Single one, though, with cantis.

Question: Bob, you get 47s (labeled) in your 2009. What is the actual width, and how wide a tire (actual) can this model take? Perhaps I short changed mine by sticking with the Jack Brown Greens. Well, otoh, that 59 tt should have been a 58 or even a 57 to get the bar where I wanted it.

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[Patrick Moore]

Tim -- nice build. I had in mind another Sam, also drops, but IIRC the drops were lower. But a slate blue with cream; was that a stock color?

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[Erik Wright]

I just snagged this Sam, my first Riv, about a month ago now from a listmember. I believe it's a 2012/2013. I was debating between a single toptube and 2TT, but knew if I got the single then I'd always lust after a double (uniqueness+aesthetics) so I took the full plunge. I bought it mostly complete, minus a cockpit. I had an Albatross cockpit lying around from a bar swap I'd done on another bike and thought it'd be perfect for the Sam. Unfortunately the 100mm stem brought the bars a bit to close, and the overly upright position was causing me to slip 'n slide all over the new Brooks I'd gotten for the bike. Luckily I had a full mustache bar cockpit lying around that I bought off an iBob about a year ago and never mounted on anything. I think I'd still prefer an Albatross setup so I'm going to snag a 120mm stem one of these days, but for now I'm liking my experience with the mustache bar setup.

As I was researching Riv models and trying to decide which I'd want, I settled on a Sam because of what people here have mentioned about it straddling niches; maybe the Sam's lack of commitment to a niche reflects my lack of commitment to a style of riding, but once I settled on the Sam the decision made complete sense. I'm thrilled with the decision and every time I jump on am surprised at how lively and fun the ride is.

To answer Patrick's question of how I built it, my intention was to have it as my "nice commuter." My ride to work is 10 miles each way mostly on MUP, but at this point I haven't had the bike long enough to push its/my boundaries in where to take it. It's an exciting adventure together.

[Austin B.]

@Patrick, the blue was a stock color up to 2016 (I have the same color). It's nice but if the 2017 Sage green been an option, I'd have gone that route. 

62cm sage-for-blue trade anyone? :-)

-Austin

[RichS]

Patrick,

Quick summary to answer your question about the difference between the Sam and the Atlantis: I have both. They are splendid rides. The ‘53 Atlantis with 26 inch wheels feels more “planted” than Sam. Turns in quickly and easily (26” wheel effect?). Super stable carrying a 20+ pound load. I love it.

The 650b ‘51 Sam with more slack angles is just as enjoyable but the ride feels just a bit more luxurious. Perhaps the wheel size and angles contribute to the effect. The front end wants to move a little more than the Atlantis but it’s okay. Nothing squirrely about it. Could easily be my road bike. For me, more so than the Atlantis.

Both are set up for carrying loads (racks and baskets). Sam has drop bars and Atlantis uses Albatross. It would be incredibly difficult to pick one over the other.

Hope this is helpful. I’ll send pics in another post.

Best,
Richard

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Richard; I was going to repeat my question about the differences.

I would like to see photos.

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[jandrews_nyc]

Here's my first generation SH which I think is the same frameset that Patrick used to have.

it's 56cm with a 59 top tube and cantis.

When I purchased it at Riv HQ, Kevin sold me the last green/gold they had and they were awaiting the arrival of the first shipment of orange Sams.  He told me at that time that the newer bikes would have more clearance at the chainstays.  I don't know if subsequently those clearances were increased again.  Maybe when the frame sizing shift happened ..when the 56 became 55's , etc.  But I can tell you that my issue SH has the smallest clearances and it's currently wearing Bruce Gordon RnR's (700x43) and aluminum fenders.   Here's an old photo of it with Schwalbe Dureme 50's...and the tight but useable clearance at the chain stays.

and on tour last year

and as it is now

[tc]

I use my 2017 58 Sam for paved greenways and roads.  It's a standard 'complete' build, except I swapped out the std Noodles for 46s, added black cork tape, plus a kickstand.  Later added an Acorn roll bag, and Acorn's Tall Rando bag (had to wait FOREVER for them to do a black canvas run!).  Berthoud decaleur, and a Nitto M18 (?) front rack .  The Snoqualmie Pass tires are like butter.  I don't much like the look of the Topeak Road Morph mini pump, but it's one of the nicer pumps I've operated.  Bottle cage is a Velo Orange Retro.

I need to mount another bottle cage before the heat sets in, so will probably stuff the pump somewhere else.

[Patrick Moore]

Nice. I draw this lesson from this great variety of Sams: If at first you don't like a Rivendell model, wait a few years. I think that I'd probably have kept a 55 X 57 single tt Sam that cleared 50 mm tires.

But, Rivendell: Don't change the Roadeo until I categorically rule it out. It's neck-to-neck with the "old high end stage racer" option in the "let's get a new bike for multiple gears and freewheel" sweepstakes.

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[Patrick Moore]

BTW, I also like the black edition. 

[Patrick Moore]

Pretty. Won't that pump fit into that big front bag?

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[Bob Lovejoy]

Great looking bike!  

Because I really like the Acorn bag folks, and to keep me from buying another one myself, I will say Acorn shows at least one black tall rando bag available.  I am amazed it still shows available but there it is.

https://www.acornbags.com/collections/bags-currently-in-stock

Do you remember the size of the Berthoud decaleur you are using with the Acorn?  No worries if not but if you do know, it would help.

Thanks,

Bob Lovejoy

Galesburg, IL

[R Shannon]

Patrick:

You asked to see pics of my Atlantis and Sam H. Here they are. The Sam now has a basket on the front; otherwise it's as shown here.

By the way, your reimagined Matthews looks like a fun ride. Well done!

All the best,

Richard

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[Patrick Moore]

Nice! Thanks. I do wonder how you (all) keep your bikes so clean, particularly the Atlantis. Was this photo taken just after a new build? Or perhaps it's just that photos don't show dirt?

The new Ford Blue (it's a Rivendell custom road, just modifed by C Matthews) is clean because I actually cleaned each bit and part as I re-assembled it. But it will be at least a decade before it's as clean again; tho' I do wash my bikes at least a few times a year, in addition to regular drivetrain and moving part maintenance. The green Riv is not nearly as clean as the blue at this point.

[R Shannon]

Patrick:

It’s the camera’s dirt removal filter:-)

Seriously, not a new build. Alternating among three bikes helps. But yes, I keep them clean.

Regards,

Richard

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[Lum Gim Fong]

tc:
How did you get that pic of your Sam? I wish I could get nice color tones like that!

[tc]

Bob, thanks.  Love the Acorn stuff!  I bought the Berthoud decaleur from Bike Touring News; they were the only ones that had the parts in stock.  I will have to dig up my exact order and get back to you on the size.

Tom

On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 7:24:48 PM UTC-4, Bob Lovejoy wrote:

...Do you remember the size of the Berthoud decaleur you are using with the Acorn?  No worries if not but if you do know, it would help.

[tc]

Lum,

Thanks.  Most of the credit for the photo goes to Mother Nature, as usual: Thin, even overcast, shot a tad less than an hour before sunset (magic hour...).  The Spring green-up all around us these days makes everything look great.  But I have to admit the orange tone of the Sam looks really great against the green lawn and leaves.

My contribution was shooting with a Canon S110, handheld, about 15 feet away from the bike and zoomed in a bit, down at bike level.  I used aperture priority, f5.9 @ 1/10 (show shutter speed contributed to fuzziness).

After downloading to my Thinkpad, I brought up the basic Windows 10 "Photos" editor, cropped it, added a touch more of the "Clarity" setting, and finally used a little vignetting to darken the edges and make the bike pop a little more.

Tom

[Bob Lovejoy]

Thanks Tom.  Any help appreciated but certainly do not take time away from anything important!  It's just that I will someday have a 58cm Sam, and will have an Acorn tall rando bag waiting for it.   I will certainly measure everything numerous times, then still worry that it is right, but your set-up looks almost exactly the way I imagine mine will work out.  I do love the orange versions, and with the cream headtube and the tan sidewalls, it looks perfect.  I have to say I also love the lush green grass and leaves in the picture!  Winter and early spring are really hanging on here in the midwest.

Thanks for any help! 

Bob

[Jonathan D.]

I was inspired to try installing fatter tires on my 56 Sam. I don’t know what year it is and the bike was bought off the list. If anyone knows I would appreciate knowing what generation this is. I was able to just squeeze in 42mm Soma Supple Vitesse on the bike with fenders.

[RJ March]

It's great seeing all these different Sams. I've used mine as a commuter, trail bike, and road bike in Seattle. It's amazing what you can do with just one bike. I tend to think the Sam embodies the Riv design philosophy best of all, maybe the Atlantis takes the cake still, but I tend to think the Sam is may be more versatile. 

I am thinking about putting the Compass Pumpkins and some bull moose bars on my Sam and focusing more on trails for a while. 

More photos here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/6HWBWLVy4eS6gWy92

R.J. 

 

On Wednesday, March 28, 2018 at 7:50:13 AM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:

There have been photos of quite a few nice Sams on the list recently, notably Paul Saporito's on the Blug and that slate gray one yesterday. (How do y'all keep your bikes so damned clean?). I gather that the Sam must be, if not the most popular Riv model, certainly up there with the top 3 (which are??? -- Sam, Atlantis, Appaloosa?).

Particularly interesting is the variety of builds: uprights and drop bars, touring and commuting with huge Wald baskets, and at least one recent poster converted his to his main road bike.

I briefly (12 months? 18?) owned a canti Sam, perhaps the original model, in a 55, but found it straddled my particular niches too much -- wouldn't take the fat tires I need here, for dirt riding in our river sand; too beefy to feel as spritely as I want for a pure road bike -- and I had the 2 custom roads anyway. Also, the tt of that model was a bit too long, even with the slacker (72? 71.5?) sta -- I hear that later models had, relatively speaking, shorter tts. If mine had taken 50 mm tires and had a cm off the tt, it would have made a nice bosque bomber that rode well on pavement. (I think a Sam shod with 38 or 44 Compass extralights would be very nice, tho' again the tires wouldn't work, for me, in our Rio Grande river silt.)

So: Am I right about the Sam being among the top 3 most popular models?

And: You Sam owners: how do you build and use yours: errands, dirt, road ...?

[phil k]

Got the new canti version in black. Should be arriving soon. Dyno light mounted on fork crown, no racks, no bags, no fenders. Drop bars with IRD power Ratchet brake levers, triple crank set up. Hetres. For more shorter rides on nicer days.

If I need to carry loads, go longer distances, ride a bit faster, or ride in all weather, my Norther custom handles that.

[jandrews]

Picking up this old thread since I rebuilt the SH after pilfering most parts off of it for the new Appaloosa build 

Currently set up as 1x8 road and trail bike with Gravel King 700x43's.

This is the very first Hillborne release from when they were green and gold.

Size 56

[R Shannon]

Good looking and practical setup.

Like it a lot!

Best,

Rich in ATL

Sent from my iPhone

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<IMG_1408.jpg>

[Ash]

Looks very nice!  Did not know Sam came in that color.

Question: which is that black bash guard?

[jandrews]

Ash the frame was originally green with gold decals 

I had it powder coated black about 5 years ago and went decal-less for most of that time until last month when I put on some over top decals.

The bash guard is the Sugino one that comes on the wide/low.  I also had it powder coated recently with some stainless Berthoud fenders.

[Ash]

Really good stuff!

The bash guard that comes with side/low is really my favorite.  Would be grate to have it in black.

Who does the powder coating for you?