Does it makes sense to get a Hilsen if I have a Sam?

[RJM]

So I have been thinking of getting my next Riv and would really like a bike for light road riding primarily. Something that I can do quicker road rides, some long rando rides, charity rides, group rides.  One saddle bag or handlebar bag would be the most I could see putting on it.  Something a little quicker than my 48cm Sam. My question is, do you think a Hilsen would be a good compliment to a Sam or is it just too close in functionality and build to justify?  Maybe go for the Roadeo instead to have something different? 

 

I have a PBH of 79, so pretty short and I am digging the 650b wheels on the Sam. Getting a Hilsen would allow me to swap wheels between the two bikes, which is a plus. I have a set of wheels made with Phil Rivy hubs and Dyad rims, 7 speed freewheel that I could see using for the Hilsen primarily. I also have a set of Synergy rimmed, LX hub wheels that I could put on the Sam. I like the fact that it has downtube shifter mounts, because that is probably the type of shifting that I would go for. (Roadeo doesn't have these).  The Roadeo is also 700 wheels, which would require me to get a new set of wheels built. The lack of downtube shifting is a con too, but not a deal breaker I suppose.

 

The Sam has been doing fine for all my riding this year, but I tend to keep racks and fenders off of it because I don't generally ride it in the rain and I have been doing club rides with it, basically I have tried to keep it from getting too heavy.  If I get another roadish riv, I plan on putting racks and fenders on the Sam and using that for commuting and touring duty.

 

What does everybody think?  Go for the Hilsen, Roadeo, maybe scrap the whole idea and get another Sam?

 

Thanks.

[sean]

Hi RJM,

 

I have a 50cm blue Rambouillet I am considering parting with. It's built around 26" wheels and is a fairly standard Riv build (except I added Dura-Ace DT shifters). Perfect bike for various road riding and randonneuring. Shoot me an e-mail off list if this is something that might interest you.

 

Best,

 

Sean

Austin, TX 

[Mike]

I have a Hilsen and I've used it for rambling, road riding, randonneuring, touring and bike camping. It's a nice all-rounder. Similar to your Sam but probably different enough to justify the Sam. Make one more roadish and one more ramblingish. It works really well for long road rides and randonneuring. Does okay on dirt and so so as a touring bike (shimmy). I say go for it.

I have a couple of bikes but have been yearning for a Sam lately to set-up with Albatross bars and use for around town rambles and commuting. The XL reach brakes are actually a plus as they're so easy to set-up and maintain and I'm really getting sick of dealing with the cantis on my commuter. 

--mike

[Toshi Takeuchi]

I love my AHH, and there are smaller Toyo frames on sale at Riv. I
like that dark blue color better than the newer Waterford lighter
blue, so that's a plus (for me). I use the AHH For rando rides, and
it's perfect for that. The Ram would be another good choice (although
it is 26" instead of 650b). I have a 700c Ram, but for long Rando
rides, the plush 38mm 650b wins over the 32-35 mm 700c tires. I don't
know how wide the 26" tires can go, but if you could get the 26"x1.35"
Kojak on, then that could be a very nice ride too. If you can afford
it, then I would go for the AHH. I like the 650b for the fat tire
width on the long brevets, so that would be the reason for me to avoid
the Roadeo.

Toshi

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[RJM]

I sent you an email, Sean.  Thanks.

[Andy Smitty Schmidt]

Funny... I have an opposite sort of question rattling around in my head. I have an AHH and am always re-configuring it for camping, around town errands, zippy road rides, etc. I've been thinking to get a 2nd bike to minimize the part swapping. I've been bouncing around on what that 2nd bike should be. One of the strong contenders is a Sam set up with albas, rear kid seat and a front basket for around town errands and such. Set the Hilsen up as the drop-bar light tourer/camper for the open road. 

The 2 frames are in the same neighborhood as far as what they can do, but having ridden both back-to-back they're not the same bike with different decals. My reasoning is that the vast majority of my riding falls within that Sam/Homer neighborhood, so why not have one of each set up with a bias toward one end or the other of that neighborhood. 

FWIW... I have the waterford blue but lust for the toyo blue. 

--A 

[Peter Pesce]

Interesting timing on this discussion. I got a Quickbeam a few months back to use as a commuting / town bike. I had my Sam set up for quicker road riding, and an LHT for heavy hauling.
After a few weeks I realized I had them at cross purposes. The LHT is now the commuter and hauler. The Big Apples are perfect for nasty drainage grates, etc and it can carry anything. The QB was not happy in this environment. I decided to make it my fast road bike, despite its de-railleured state. I've been riding it stripped down with Noodles and light 28mm tires and absolutely loving it.
Just today I finished remaking the Sam into a proper country bike. It got alba bars, classic Riv drivetrain, racks, and shiny aluminum fenders. It is much happier in this mode than it had been trying to pose as a road racer. The world feels more settled now, though I'm sure my urge to fiddle will well up again soon!
Sometimes it takes a while to understand what a bike wants to be.

Pete in CT

[Joe Bernard]

Both bikes - Hilsen and Roadeo - would be great light-load road bikes. I say pick your favorite color and wheel size, and enjoy.

 

Joe Bernard

Vallejo, CA.

[ted]

As others have said, if you are going to set them up quite different
that could make sense.
I have a 56 hillsen and and my wife has a 52 sam. Hers has alba bars
and rumpkin tires, mine has drop bars and GB cypres tires. They are
quite different to ride.
The hillsen is defiantely a really nice bike. If you are riding a
local racing clubs rides you may want be on more similar equipment
(like the rodeo), but short of that I don't think a hillsen would hold
you back. I certainly think your notion of sticking to a single wheel
size has definite advantages.
Perhaps a Bombadil Hillsen pairing would be even better. There is more
of difference between those two. Have 3 sets of wheels. One light road
only set for only on the hillsen, one mixed surface set with rumkins
on it for either bike, and a set with quasi-motos for only on the
bombadil. Maybe a fourth set with schwalbe fatties on it for flat free
use on either bike or skip the rumpkins and stick with 3 sets.
Probably not a helpful idea though since you already have the
hillborne.

[PATRICK MOORE]

I've not ridden a HH, but I did briefly own a Sam and, based just on
that I'd say that the Sam makes a better all rounder or country bike
-- excellent for that, IMO with the reservations that I didn't like
its load carrying properties and, second, that it won't take the fat
tires that I like for dirt roads. But for a combo of pavement, firm
dirt and light loads, I'd love to have mine back; as it was, it just
didn't fit into my bike stable categories which are determined in part
by budget.

As for road use, I found it somewhat sluggish compared to the purely
road Rivs I've owned and compared to other road bikes like the
erstwhile Herse randonneur. Doesn't the HH have lighter tubing and
more roady geometry?

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[Joe Bernard]

Yep. My Hilsen felt like my Romulus, but with 650b wheels. It's a nice, lively road bike.

 

Joe Bernard

Vallejo, CA.

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[J L]

Yes it does make sense: 

You already know that you like the "Rivendell ride" and given different configurations the two bikes could be quite different.  Keep in mind that the HIlsen has a very slight slope (1.5 degree in the top tube vs. the 6 degree for the Sam) so the sizing with be a little different.  I have a 79cm PBH as well and used to ride a 54 frame in the AHH line. 

Unless the wheel swap is due to budget concerns I wouldn't bank on that being too much of a deciding factor.  I find that changing wheel sizes is one of the enjoyable things of riding different bicycles. 

As others have pointed out the Roadeo is another good option.  It depends on if you want a new bike that is quite similar to your Sam or slightly similar. 

JL

[Toshi Takeuchi]

Good point, I have a 79 PBH and ride a 54 AHH and 54 Rambouillet. A 52
would probably work for both of those too, but anything smaller would
probably be too small.

Toshi