Rambouillet Sizing Question

[Liam Beveridge]

Hello, I've been searching for an old Rambouillet, and was looking for some advice regarding sizing. I'm not super familiar with bike fitting.

Looking at the chart in this document (page 17) it looks like Rams are sized a bit differently than Riv's current models. I'm 5'10'' with an 86cm PBH. According to this chart, I should be on a 58, but it looks like I could maybe also fit a 60. This threw me off a bit because I'd fit a 54-57 on Riv's new bikes.

Am I correct in that I'd fit a 58 Ram best? Also, would it be a mistake for me to take a 60? (There's a 60 ram available right now that I've been looking at)

I'd be mostly using the bike for road rides, and using drop bars.

Thanks!

Liam 

[Johnny Alien]

The new models have more aggressive top tube slopes so the sizing is very different from the classic Rivs. You might be able to fit the larger size and plenty of people will tell you to always push it to a larger size but for me personally upsizing never works for me. If you plan to set it up as a road bike I would suggest staying with the recommended size of 58. But if the 60 is local it might be worth at least checking out.

[Joe Bernard]

As Johnny says the current sizing is quite different, Riv mysteriously still labels the frames by actual seattube measurement in spite of using compact-sizing geometry now. All current Rivs should be sized by the buyer according to effective toptube length.. 

Also agree on checking out that 60cm, you might dig it. 

Joe Bernard 

Clearlake CA 

[Patrick Moore]

I’ve never measured my PBH — I should — but I’m 5’11” with Asian build = long torso and I fit a 58 blue Ram very well with the ~57 cm c-c top tube. My perfect “pro-fit” level tt road size is 60 X 56 c-c.

The Rams have a more conventional road bike fit than (I guess, since I’ve not ridden any, just read about them) many of Riv’s current models.

I know that Grant discounts top tube length but, if you prefer your bar in a very fixed relationship to your saddle, tt length is essential, and I chose my st size based on effective tt length. (This principle has worked for me for ~40 years.)

My Ram was a very nice bike. I sold it on because it wasn’t quite as nice and didn’t fit quite as neatly into self-imposed cycling categories as others I own.

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[rlti...@gmail.com]

I am 5’ 11” with an 86 cm PBH. My saddle height is 75 cm. I rode an orange 60 cm Ram and it fit me perfectly. I am not sure if geometry changed on the other color Rams.

Robert Tilley

San Diego, CA

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 26, 2026, at 8:57 AM, Liam Beveridge <fwalkon...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello, I've been searching for an old Rambouillet, and was looking for some advice regarding sizing. I'm not super familiar with bike fitting.

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[Patrick Moore]

Difference in body type dictate different frame sizes if you go by top tube length. The top tube on the 60 cm Ram was too long for me, at 58 cm versus 57 for the 58 cm Ram and my ideal tt length of 56 cm. I point this out only as a caveat for the OP.

[Liam Beveridge]

Thanks Johnny! I appreciate the info. There was a delay in my post going up since I'm a new member, and I actually ended up finding a 58, so I'm glad to hear I made the right call.

Cheers,

Liam

[thwart]

I have a ~2005 Romulus, essentially identical to a Rambouillet although not as nicely painted. Ram frame sizes are even numbered (56, 58, 60) rather than the Rom's odd numbered sizing. I'm 5-10 with a 85 cm PBH. My '55' Romulus fits me pretty well, albeit with a 130 mm stem. From what I can tell a 56 Ram would probably be about ideal for me... but I've owned the Romulus since 2009 and love the darn thing.

[P W]

Hopefully that means you can share the availability of that 60, for the rest of us then!? ;)

Congrats on the new bike, I’ve heard nothing by good things regarding Rams!

P. W.

~

(917) 514-2207

~

On Jul 27, 2026, at 8:22 AM, Liam Beveridge <fwalkon...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Johnny! I appreciate the info. There was a delay in my post going up since I'm a new member, and I actually ended up finding a 58, so I'm glad to hear I made the right call.

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[iamkeith]

Late reply here but, fwiw, Rams were sized a bit differently even than other rivs at the time.  They had short top tubes, relative to the frame size, to encourage people to "size up."  If you have a long torso, or maybe even typical body proportions, my advice would be to get the biggest frame you can stand over.  No clearance, but still able to keep your feet flat.  If you have long legs, maybe the next size smaller will work.

I'm 6'-2" with an 87 pbh, and have a 60.  The top tube is too short and I feel cramped, but I love it too much and have spent too much time making it work, to get rid of it.  Ironically, my current best solution was to use a shorter stem and raise the bars more than I used to.  Sitting more upright makes the bars feel further away, and me feel less like I'm cantilevered over the front.  I always had the bars at saddle level, but now they're a bit above.

[Dave Johnston]

5'10" here with a 83.5cm PBH as measured by Riv, I measured 83.0cm. My saddle is between 72cm-73cm. I had a 58cm Ram and it was too bid and I sized down to a 56cm Ram. Since we are the same height and my legs are shorter then so my torso must be longer. This means you must be longer in the leg and shorter in the torso. I'd recommend a 58cm max.

I think they used to have an equation like this:  

 To calculate your Rivendell saddle height and frame size, measure your Pubic Bone Height (PBH), subtract 10 to 11 cm for saddle height,

Frame Size Calculation (Rivendell "Maxed-Out" Sizing) so don't go bigger than this
Formula: {Saddle Height} - 15 cm (shorter riders)}  to 19 cm (taller riders)= Frame Size (cm)

-Dave J

[ascpgh]

For me at 6' 1" and long legs (don't recall PBH), the Rambouillet solved a conundrum I avoided for a decade; that production geometry road bikes with "square" (TT=ST) geometry don't fit me. I lived in the land of bodged fitting, and a consumer of odd seatposts and handlebar stems. 

A conversation with Grant about this new production model, on the way across the Pacific in unpainted form, saved me from a custom build when facing the reality of a planned Trans-Am ride with a group. My RB-1 was good for a weekend epic, but the building discomfort from poor fit wasn't going to work by the third day. My XO-2 in a smaller size wasn't going to work either for similar fit issues from sizing down. 

The Rambouillet was a great option for the added 2 cm of the head tube above the TT, now often copied, to raise the bars and move them back a bit. Rode across the country on the bike, essentially right out of the box. 

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

On Monday, July 27, 2026 at 7:09:51 PM UTC-4 iamkeith wrote:

[David Johnston]

Andy said " The Rambouillet was a great option for the added 2 cm of the head tube "

More than that, 2deg of up-slope added about another  2cm of stack and an extra 15mm or so of spacers in the headset as well ended up raising the bars over 2" from square frames. As a casual rider this is a major reason I've been a Rivendell fan.

Of course you can always just do this, but Dirt Drops only come in limited sizes:

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[Peter Bridge]

Well, you're asking for opinions without a lot of data, so here goes.  I'm 6'1" with pbh of about 86.  I have owned three 60 Rams, using 10 or 11 stems.  

I'm guessing that a 60 would be big for you.  I'm guessing you'd have to run an 8 stem.  I'm guessing that you would have a bit less than a fist of post.  I'm guessing that a 58 would be a better fit.  Also, as alluded elsewhere, a 60 would have a LOT of headtube.  

I now have a 58 Ram, converted to an S&S coupled travel bike by Bilenky.  57 top tube, 18 headtube, almost 24 cm of steerer.  There's some chance I would consider liquidating it, because I subsequently bought an Alex Singer which is now occupying that functional slot.  Anyhoo, I think a 60 would be big for you unless you like the feeling of a big bike.  

~pb

      

On Sunday, July 26, 2026 at 8:57:05 AM UTC-7 fwalkon...@gmail.com wrote:

[Joe Bernard]

He got a 58, I think he's all set

[Hugh C]

This is what I used when I was Riv shopping. 

www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/geometry.html

I ride 56-57 cm top tube road bikes and have been very happy on my 58 Rambouillet.

[Liam B]

Appreciate all the comments here! I should have a 58 shipping out tomorrow : ) Excited for my first Riv!

-- Liam

[David Hallerman]

I also ride 56-57 cm top tube road bikes, and my 56 cm Rambouillet fits me perfectly.

I’m 5’10” but more torso than leg than most people my height.

David H.

Florence MA

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[Corwin Zechar]

I have a PBH of 88cm and ride a 60 cm Ram and a 62cm Quickbeam.

Regards,

Corwin

[John Ahearne]

I don't know my PBH, but I'm 6'4" and just bought a used 64cm Redwood with drop bars. Upon a quick unexpected dismount, I may be in trouble and speak in tongues. Everyday road riding here in San Francisco the bike rides exceptionally well. Nothing crazy yet, but I've done Ocean Beach via the Presidio by way of Crissy Fields, a few rides over the Golden Gate Bridge, a ride into Mill Valley and a couple climbs up Twin Peaks. The Redwood handles better than my custom made short wheel base 62cm Cyclo-cross. The Redwood is a tall Rambouillet. Running drop bars, 3 x 9 speed on 37 wide tires and carry a good amount of weight on a rear rack. 

I'm a bit taller than you Liam. On paper the 64cm frame would appear too big for me, but once I am on the bike it's the best decision I made. Based on my experience with a big frame, I would be a bit more confident in buying that 60cm Ram you mentioned. 

John Ahearne

San Francisco, CA

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[Eric Marth]

Liam — I'll confirm what others say, Riv sizing has changed a lot since the days of the Ram due to their embrace of the sloping top tubes. Going by your height, it makes sense you'd fit either a 58 or 60cm Rambouillet frame. Keep an eye out for the Romulus, too, as @thwart mentions those frames are functionally identical. I believe they were introduced as a slightly-less-expensive alternate to the Ram. 

I'd hold out for a Ram! 

The trouble is going to be finding either a 58cm or 60cm frame that's built up for you to try! Finding both, and comparing how they fit and feel? That's going to be especially tricky. The chances their either bike is set up the way that's just right for you, providing the right platform for your assessment? Slim to none! 

When I test rode my Hillborne it was the right size but the bars and stem were totally wack, the brakes didn't work, the tires were practically flat and the shifters and brake levers were set up in a totally insane configuration. Hard to get a feel if the bike was right for me. But it was so cheap that it was a no-brainer. 

Conventionally I should ride something like a 58cm frame but over the years I've found I prefer larger ones. My Raleigh International is in the ballpark of a Ram. Light tubing, level top tube, fits a 38mm tire, center pull brakes. It's the type of sport-touring frame that Grant drew inspiration from in the early years of Rivendell. The frame's a 24.5" in Raleigh's catalog, that's about a 62cm frame. I really like the way it fits. That might not be right for you, but I'd say keep an open mind until you've at least tried a larger frame.  

I rode a 62cm Surly LHT for about a year and really liked that, too. The fit on the LHT was verrrry French – hardly any standover and that seatpost was slammed. Wouldn't go that big again with that frame and I don't think I'll ever buy another Surly. But I was always comfy on that bike. 

Good luck with your search and share updates when you find some bikes!

[Kim H.]

@Liam,

I have a friend who selling his 59cm? blue Rambouillet bicycle. 

Send me a private email for further information, if you are interested. 

Kim Hetzel 

Washington state. 

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[Johnny Alien]

Liam noted that he already found and purchased a 58

[Kim H.]

Thank you, Johnny.

Kim.

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[Bill Lindsay]

...and since there's no such thing as a 59cm Rambouillet, your friend should determine whether they have a 58 or a 60 prior to selling it.  Given that the Riv-sizing of the Rambouillet was center of the BB to the tippy top, I would bet a dollar that if they measured "59?" it's probably a 60.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Joe Bernard]

...and it's sized to the tippy top of the toptube as it intersects the seattube so if measured 59 at the tippy top of a seat lug point, it's a 58. 

Joe Bernard 

Clearlake CA 

[Corwin Zechar]

Hi Joe -

My creamsicle Ram does not have a pointed seat tube lug. As I recall, Rivendells are measured center-to-top.

I suspect this "59" cm Ram is actually a 60 cm Ram measured center-to-center.

Regards,

Corwin

[Joe Bernard]

I'm starting to understand why most companies measure C-to-C or just say S/M/L/XL

[David Johnston]

This blog from "bike insights" says 19% of manufactures measure Center to Center, but I don't know of any these days.

https://blog.bikeinsights.com/how-bikes-are-measured/

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[Joe Bernard]

This has been Corrections on Riv Bunch

[Garth]

If I were wondering which size a given Riv frame was and wanted to be certain I would use whatever know geometry specs available and cross reference various frame measurements with that chart. For example, for the Ram, check these known geo charts :

http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/geometry.html

https://bikeinsights.com/bikes/5c55ee6d40d7a00017e4e2cd-rivendell-bicycle-works-rambouillet?version=2004&build=base

 There is a difference on 1cm in both top tube and chainstay length between a 58 and 60 frame. Also a glaring 7.5mm fork rake difference, but that is not as easy to measure or sport by eye unless side by side. Standover height could be useful as long as one knows the given tire model and size on the given frame. A 2.1cm difference in a 58 and 60 Ram. Too bad head tube lengths were never published, as that would be an easy reference point in comparing frames and it's easy to measure straight from top to bottom edge. One could always measure a frame in question(or ask the seller to measure), post it here, and ask any owners of a given Ram to measure theirs.

[Eric Marth]

The original Ram brochure that Liam linked includes a geo chart. It shows the seat tube is measured center-to-top / "c-t":

[Liam B]

Forgot to include a photo of the bike!

[Liam B]

I finally got the bike yesterday! Thanks again for all the replies in here.

I ended up with a 58. Need to switch out the bar tape and hopefully get a rack for it.

I think I made the right call with the fit. For the past ~15 years, I've ridden an old Kona cyclocross bike that I always knew I was a bit stretched out on. It was never a bike I was in love with, just the one I had. When I first got on the Ram in felt oddly small on me. However, I think this was an effect of me adjusting to riding a slightly more upright bike that actually fits me. On my Kona I'm always riding with my hands by the stem to get a little more upright, and my neck gets sore on any longer ride. Riding on the hoods and the drops is way more comfy on the Ram. This is separate from the fit convo, but the bike just feels so much more smooth and stable than my old bike too. Pretty happy with everything so far! Looking forward to seeing how it feels on a long ride.

--Liam