Widest wide range double chainring setup? How wide is too wide?

[William]

I'm running Ritchey/Sugino cranks on my Hillborne and another set
waiting for me to pay off my Bombadil. These are 94/58mm bolt circle
cranks. I love them and would but 5 more sets in 172.5 if I could.
They both came with 22/32/42 chainrings. I am running the Hilborne
right now as a wider range triple: 22/34/46. The cranks that are
going on to the Bombadil were last used as a double on a cyclocross
bike and worked great with a 30/44 with Campy ergo brifters. I'm
wondering what's the biggest jump on a double you've run. Kevens
dream Bomba has a 24/40, for 16t of jump. 34/50 is standard on
compact road cranks nowadays. I'm thinking of trying a 46/29 on these
Ritchey arms. I've never run TA or TA-style cranks that I think allow
even more flexibility. Has anyone ever run a 20+ tooth jump between
two chainrings?

[rperks]

I have been running a 50/30 on the same crank arms on my Roadeo, phil
103 bb.

I love it!!

Only shifting onto the 30 for long or steep climbs. In the rear I
have a 6 spd 13-28 freewheel and have not had to use the 30-28 yet,
even on what I consider my "Test" hill that convinced me to put a
tripple on my cross check.

That being said it has a lot to do with the frame/drivetrain/tire/
rider interaction. I am convinced of this more and more every time I
ride. I bought and restored an Eisentraut Model A from an uncle, and
rode a hilly 40 mile loop with a 53/42 up front and a 13-28 in the
back, roughy toughys on the rims. I flew through it and climb hills
that I need a granny gear for on other bikes. That is what drove me
towards a Roadeo.

Back to your question, I run a 20 tooth spread, and use a flat plated
shimano deerhead derailleur to avoid rubbing the crank arm, it works
outstanding for my needs.

Rob

[PATRICK MOORE]

I ran a 26/46 for a while; no problems, though shifting between rings, particularly upshifts to the 46, where a bit slow but otherwise not problematical. I later changed to a 30/44 which shifted wholly unexceptionally. After all, the difference between the standard 39 and 53 is the same, 14 teeth.

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[doug peterson]

I've got a 24/42 on my utility bike. 7 speed 12-28 cassette. The
front shift requires a bit of care but is not problematic. All the
gear is standard issue late 80s MTB Deore stuff. Mid range bike,
nothing exceptional.

dougP

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[William]

Excellent, so my 46/29 idea should be no problem at all.

[Angus]

William,

Go for it...there is one way to find out if it works well enough for
you!

I believe the biggest jump I have run between two chain rings was 20
teeth. It was on a half-step + granny set up on an All-Rounder.
20-40-44. The 20 40 shift required some care but otherwise wasn't a
problem. I loved the half-step part, but didn't like the large jump
into and out of the granny; too much rear shifting required in
addition to the "careful" front shift anytime a steepish hill was
encountered. If I only did that shift occasionally I would have stuck
with it, but on rolling hills I found it irritating.

The best shifting double I used was on my cyclocross bike a 38-47 set
up. It shifted wonderfully, almost without any care needed; no
indexing...no problem, full of mud...no problem, pedaling hard...no
problem ....but where is the skill in that?

Let us know how it works out.

Angus

[MichaelH]

I don't think the biggest issue is how it will shift. After all
triple fronts are designed for a 22 tooth difference. Rather the
shifting pattern gets very awkward when you go from 14 to 16. At 14
the next gear is typically two cogs away. At 16 your in no mans land,
and at 18 and above the next gear is at the other end of the
cassette. I really like a 48/34 and could probably get along with a
44/30, but I think for rings below that I would prefer to have the
triple to widen the range without having to work so hard finding the
next gear.

Michael

[Steve Palincsar]

On Sat, 2010-03-06 at 05:25 -0800, MichaelH wrote:
> I don't think the biggest issue is how it will shift. After all
> triple fronts are designed for a 22 tooth difference. Rather the
> shifting pattern gets very awkward when you go from 14 to 16. At 14
> the next gear is typically two cogs away. At 16 your in no mans land,
> and at 18 and above the next gear is at the other end of the
> cassette. I really like a 48/34 and could probably get along with a
> 44/30, but I think for rings below that I would prefer to have the
> triple to widen the range without having to work so hard finding the
> next gear.

Yes, the cross-over is the Achilles Heel of wide range doubles. For
many recreational riders, the cross-over on common "compact doubles"
spec'd for racers falls right in the middle of the cruising range.

[Bill M.]

The ugly crossover is why I ditched the 50/34 on my commuter, and went
back to a 46/36/24 triple. I have no use for the 24 on my flat
commute, but the shifting pattern is nicer. When I bought a brand-new
Campy group for my go-fast I went with 53/39 x 13-29 instead of 50/34
x 12-26 - similar gearing, but a nicer shift pattern. The club riders
with compacts always seem to be riding cross-chained.

IMO a workable wide-range double uses the small ring only as a bail-
out for the biggest climbs, and the big ring for everything else.
Something like 44/24 x 12-xx would work pretty well for me.

Bill

[cyclotourist]

I'm really happy with my 50/34 X 12-30 set up.  From memory, I think I use the top six gears with the big ring, and the bottom five with the small ring.  Pretty minimal crossover with that set up.  The low 34X30 takes me just about anywhere I need to go, but the 50X12 pretty much never gets used.  I should actually move to a 48T or even 45T big ring.

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Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA

"Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym."  ~Bill Nye, scientist guy

[PATRICK MOORE]

I used my wide range double as a single with a bailout; with 9 cogs for the 44, 9/10 of what I needed required only rear shifts. And, I set up the outer and the cogset for a pretty straight chainline in the cruising gears. With nine or 10 cogs in back, one ring is plenty for everything except loaded touring (I imagine) and steep off road climbs; after all, a 46X32 with a typical 700c wheel gives a 39" low.

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Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
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Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumesp...@gmail.com
(505) 227-0523

[Dustin Sharp]

Yup, I pretty much ride mine as a 1x9 until the hills come. I'm running
44-30 and 12-27. I do spin out on bigger hills and occasionally wish for
something a bit easier for extreme grades. Maybe I should give 44-28 a shot
with one of SRAM's 11-28 cassettes.

The other thing that makes this setup work well is having a big ring that is
positioned to let you use almost all of your gears. For me, 135 rear spacing
and using the inner two rings of a Sugino XD triple with a 113 bb makes for
a great chainline.

Dustin

[PATRICK MOORE]

Today I'm taking the Sam Hill to the LBS to have the Deore rear 8/9/10 sp freehub body exchanged for a (scavenged; thanks Ryan) 7 sp one. And, if I can find a way to do so, I'll toss the present 13 outer and have a 15-17-19-21-26-32 6 speed, with an extra spacer or two at the big end. For why? One, to put the 19 right in line with the outer 46, for a 68" non-touring cruising gear (Jack Browns). I will keep the 36 since the remaining 67" -- 32" range will probably be nice on long uphills with a touring load. And there remains the 26 inner when I am tempted to despair and give up. But for about town riding, the 46/19 X 28" wheel gives me the ideal, the classic, nay the ultima ratio and ne plus ultra of all-rounder gears and, if I am feeling effete, I can get a full 85" down to 40" on the outer. Gad, the excess!

The other reason is that my mind still boggles at three (3!!!) rings and six (6!!!) cogs: what shall I do with this excess? I dislike, for theological reasons, having unused cogs on my cassette, and anything north of 15 is pretty useless to me. If I keep the 13, it will simply be as an annoying but necessary spacer for the 15.

The original 11-32 8 speed is just, how to put it, crazy. 46X11 = 117". Even Eddy didn't have such a gear! The 46X13 is an overkill 99". Fausto would have sneered. The 15 brings things down to a merely athletic level.

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[Steve Palincsar]

On Sat, 2010-03-06 at 07:49 -0800, Dustin Sharp wrote:
> Yup, I pretty much ride mine as a 1x9 until the hills come. I'm running
> 44-30 and 12-27. I do spin out on bigger hills and occasionally wish for
> something a bit easier for extreme grades. Maybe I should give 44-28 a shot
> with one of SRAM's 11-28 cassettes.

Why stop at 28? I think the XX cassettes go from 11 to 36. Saw one at
NAHBS.

[nathan spindel]

While it may sound crazy, I often find myself in the highest gear on most of my bikes. I'm not a racer, but I really do enjoy a lower cadence mash on the flats and downhills and the occasional low grade hill. I also like being able to overtake the SF fixie riders who pedal at insanely high cadences while I'm smiling and grinding at a moderate pace. :) For reference the higher gearing I'm referring to is:

  700C x 32mm: 46x12 (Romulus)

  700C x 27mm: 53x13 (RB-1)

  650B x 36mm: 50x11 (650B Sequoia)

…though I admit the last one is too high and impractical, especially so for an upright city hauler bike. ;)   

-nathan

[doug peterson]

Patrick:

Is this the second or third week with the new bike? We all knew you
wouldn't leave things alone! I agree the 11-32 8 speed is no good for
touring. At least you decided to keep the triple! I'm not qualified
to get into a theological discussion with you but I'd keep the 13. A
bit of tailwind, a slight downgrade. It can be handy, and will look
better than another spacer :).

dougP

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[PATRICK MOORE]

Avast, heretic! This be week two (to be precise: this is the 8th day of receipt) and I've put 85 miles on it -- not a lot, but work has been busy.

I hope to swap out the egregiously wide 160 mm Sugino for a more modestly endowed 150 or so (one hopes) Q'd 110 triple. As for the 13, I'd rather coast. Hell, after five or so years of almost exclusively fixed gear riding, coasting feels, well, decadent, somehow.

And, I just ordered VO's discounted 45 mm alum fenders, a stem-clamp-bolt-mount decaleur for the Ostrich and a VO non-Pletscher 2-leg stand. Ordinarily I frown on kickstands, but the SH has a kickstand plate that, metaphysically, demands a stand to bolt to it. The Greenfield is worth f-all when you have loaded rear panniers.

And now I am scheming to rig up a dynolight. The Nashbar front rack prevents me, mercifully, from using the ancient Sankya bottle, so I am waiting to snag a good deal on a DN72.

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[cyclotourist]

Let us all know 'bout that triple if you find it.  The only one I know that narrow (in 110bcd/square taper) is the late-great TA Zephyr.

[Michael_S]

And the Sugino built Ritcheys. A NOS just went for $200+ on Ebay a
week ago or so.

and I know they are a bit techo... but the RaceFace Turbines have a
fairly narrow Q.

I guess I'm a lucky one... the wider Q works better for me.

Even though I can rider wider Q's... I'm a bit of a old small BCD
crankset collector. I have two of the RaceFaces, a Sugino/Ritchey, a
Campy Olympus and a Stronglight 300lx all square tapers.

On Mar 6, 1:33 pm, cyclotourist <cyclotour...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Let us all know 'bout that triple if you find it.  The only one I know that
> narrow (in 110bcd/square taper) is the late-great TA Zephyr.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 1:28 PM, PATRICK MOORE <bertin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Avast, heretic! This be week two (to be precise: this is the 8th day of
> > receipt) and I've put 85 miles on it -- not a lot, but work has been busy.
>
> > I hope to swap out the egregiously wide 160 mm Sugino for a more modestly
> > endowed 150 or so (one hopes) Q'd 110 triple. As for the 13, I'd rather
> > coast. Hell, after five or so years of almost exclusively fixed gear riding,
> > coasting feels, well, decadent, somehow.
>
> > And, I just ordered VO's discounted 45 mm alum fenders, a
> > stem-clamp-bolt-mount decaleur for the Ostrich and a VO non-Pletscher 2-leg
> > stand. Ordinarily I frown on kickstands, but the SH has a kickstand plate
> > that, metaphysically, demands a stand to bolt to it. The Greenfield is worth
> > f-all when you have loaded rear panniers.
>
> > And now I am scheming to rig up a dynolight. The Nashbar front rack
> > prevents me, mercifully, from using the ancient Sankya bottle, so I am
> > waiting to snag a good deal on a DN72.
>

> > (505) 227-0523
>
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> Cheers,
> David
> Redlands, CA
>
> "Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something
> wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym."  ~Bill Nye,

> scientist guy- Hide quoted text -

[cyclotourist]

Wider Q's have been recommend to help me deal w/ IBT, but it's hard to bring myself to doing it after I've worked hard (and spent $$$) to get as narrow as possible!!! :-)

Those Ritcheys are nice.  $200 doesn't sound bad for NOS considering what's out there.  I don't now what the RF Trubines look like, but guessing based on what I've seen from them...

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[Michael_S]

Did you ever see Dr Rich to be bike fit? The other thing to try is
the Specialized bodyfit wedges for inside your shoe. They align the
natural position of your knee with the flat pedal surface.

and BTW... Co-Motion specs the Race Faces on all their tour/all
rounder bikes. I've used them on my Soma Double Cross and am very
happy with the 46-34-24 combo with a 12x25 cassette... and yes I use
that 46-12 a lot. a 48T would be even betta'.

The new Hillborne has the Sugino 48-34-24 with a 12-30 cassette. Seems
good so far.

~Big Ring Mike~

[rswa...@me.com]

With my 46-30 crank and 12-28 cassette, I can use all 8 cogs in the big ring and all but the 12&13 in the small ring. Best gearing setup I've ever had!

I can do even fairly hilly rides in the big ring and there's just enough overlap in the middle of the range that I don't shift the front very much. 

Ryan

[cyclotourist]

No, not yet.  On my list of things to do.  I did buy a roller though.  Don't really know if it's doing any good yet.  I've tried all the easy fixes recommended by my friends on the internet.  Next up is a local massage therapist that is highly recommend.  I'll probably due the fit in conjunction w/ that although still leery he'll try to fit me on a skinny-tired bike with bars six inches below the seat.

[Steve Palincsar]

On Sat, 2010-03-06 at 15:50 -0800, cyclotourist wrote:
> Wider Q's have been recommend to help me deal w/ IBT, but it's hard to
> bring myself to doing it after I've worked hard (and spent $$$) to get
> as narrow as possible!!! :-)

Look how hard people have to work at it to get a repetitive stress
injury...

[cyclotourist]

We all need hobbies!

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[MichaelH]

I believe the Davinci, a very nice triple, is listed at a modest 158
Q, and the design allows for a very short bb, which makes it easy to
move between a dbl & triple. BTW, they are made by White right here
in the US, or at least in Ca. Not cheap, but less than TA.
Michael

On Mar 6, 4:33 pm, cyclotourist <cyclotour...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Let us all know 'bout that triple if you find it.  The only one I know that
> narrow (in 110bcd/square taper) is the late-great TA Zephyr.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 1:28 PM, PATRICK MOORE <bertin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Avast, heretic! This be week two (to be precise: this is the 8th day of
> > receipt) and I've put 85 miles on it -- not a lot, but work has been busy.
>
> > I hope to swap out the egregiously wide 160 mm Sugino for a more modestly
> > endowed 150 or so (one hopes) Q'd 110 triple. As for the 13, I'd rather
> > coast. Hell, after five or so years of almost exclusively fixed gear riding,
> > coasting feels, well, decadent, somehow.
>
> > And, I just ordered VO's discounted 45 mm alum fenders, a
> > stem-clamp-bolt-mount decaleur for the Ostrich and a VO non-Pletscher 2-leg
> > stand. Ordinarily I frown on kickstands, but the SH has a kickstand plate
> > that, metaphysically, demands a stand to bolt to it. The Greenfield is worth
> > f-all when you have loaded rear panniers.
>
> > And now I am scheming to rig up a dynolight. The Nashbar front rack
> > prevents me, mercifully, from using the ancient Sankya bottle, so I am
> > waiting to snag a good deal on a DN72.
>

> > (505) 227-0523
>
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[cyclotourist]

oooohhhh, they're pretty, too:  http://www.davincitandems.com/images/crank4.jpg

Thanks for that lead as I hadn't heard of them!

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[PATRICK MOORE]

On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 11:28 AM, MichaelH <mhec...@gmail.com> wrote:

I believe the Davinci, a very nice triple, is listed at a modest 158
Q, and the design allows for a very short bb, which makes it easy to
move between a dbl & triple.  BTW, they are made by White right here
in the US, or at least in Ca.  Not cheap, but less than TA.
Michael

Perhaps the clarity of my hindsight is clouded by the pink haze of nostalgia (or the purple haze of something else), but IIRC, the original XTs and clones, from the late '80s and early '90s, those that took the 122.5 mm bb spindle, had a Q of about 150 mm. 158 is to wide for my taste -- I feel as if I am giving birth -- parturans montem, as 'twere, like the proverbial mus.

Patrick "resolutely bottom trimming, and I don't mean derailleurs" Moore, who is being annoyingly literary.

[Ken Yokanovich]

So while it's mentioned that they are made by White Industries, why
not the White Intustries VBC? Talk about a nice wide-range double,
low Q-factor of 142. Has anyone tried one?

Maybe not the most attractive crank, it is offered in a variety of
different lengths and as a wide-ranged double. While it does utilize
a proprietary outside ring, a $60 replacement cost is less expensive
than many other high quality rings.

[William]

I was thinking about that same crankset. I'm seriously tempted.
Since I have two sets of Ritchey/Sugino 94/58 arms my needs are not
terribly urgent, but if I decide that a 29/46 or similar is my dream
setup, I might get a little more anxious for a 172.5mm option.

Velo Orange is VERY into wide range doubles and low Q cranks, and they
have the motivation and apparently the means to get a bunch of their
own cranksets made for them. Too bad that Chris at Velo Orange wont
make a 172.5

On Mar 7, 2:10 pm, Ken Yokanovich <reflector.collec...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[MAP]

Pardon the post resurrection.  I think Patrick's "avast, heretic!" comment alone, back on 3/6/10 justifies it :)  I was thinking of this and Google brought me right back to the RBW group.

For my new Appaloosa I'd like to go 2x over 3x because with 3x creates a situation where the middle ring can be used as much as 80% of the time and the small and big are each used as little as 10% of the time.  After wearing out a middle ring this way, I tried to use my big and small rings more, but then I end up shifting a bunch just to spread the wear across the 3x.

I'd like a 2x for lower speeds and faster speeds.  The cassette in the back helps "fill in the gap."

And 2x over 1x so I don't need a special cassette and also because I think front/chainring shifts are great when on quick up-and-down transitions, like on trails.

So instead of a 44/34/24, the best option that I could find for me is the VO Grand Cru 50.4 BCD crankset.

https://velo-orange.com/collections/cranks/products/grand-cru-50-4bcd-crankset-mkii

It comes as a 46/30 and I'd like to have a smaller small ring.  28T is the smallest it can fit, and VO informed be I can get it from Peter White Cycles

https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/ta-chainrings.php#pro5  

I'll probably first try the 46/30 before spending more money for likely just a marginal change.

If anyone has chainrings they'd like to swap for 46/30 (I understand I can change out both big and small rings on this), I'd be happy to go for a 44T big and/or a 28T small.

And if anyone else has found any better options since this thread was hot a decade ago, please let me know.

Thanks

-Matt

San Diego

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[Bill Lindsay]

The best wide double for an Appaloosa is the Silver wide double. 38/24. Everything you need. Nothing you don’t. Nobody needs a 46t ring on an Appaloosa unless they insist on running a 14t smallest cog. If you run an 11-32 or an 11-34 or an 11-36, that 38/24 is perfecto. You can’t pedal at 40mph with a 38x11 it’s true. Enjoy coasting at >35mph.

Bill ‘evolved since 2010’ Lindsay
El Cerrito Ca

[scott minor]

I’ve been riding a 46/28 for about 5 years now and like it alot. Mind you it’s on a Homer running 38mm tires, but a 22 tooth gap is not a problem at all.

[Bill Lindsay]

46/28 is a 18 tooth gap.  Do you mean you are running 48/26 for a 22 tooth gap?  

BL in EC

[scott minor]

Correction. That’s right Bill, 18t gap, not 22t gap. Thank you!

[James / Analog Cycles]

We've run 46/20 with a 12-36 out back with fine success.  Middleburn lets you run a 110 big ring, no middle ring and 58 bcd granny gear for said combo.  Friction shifts fine with TA rings.  The resulting gear range is super wide.  690% gear range.  

-James / Analog Cycles / Tanglefoot Cycles / Fifth Season Canvas / Discord Components

On Friday, March 5, 2010 at 5:38:42 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:

I'm running Ritchey/Sugino cranks on my Hillborne and another set
waiting for me to pay off my Bombadil.  These are 94/58mm bolt circle
cranks.  I love them and would but 5 more sets in 172.5 if I could.
They both came with 22/32/42 chainrings.  I am running the Hilborne
right now as a wider range triple:  22/34/46.  The cranks that are
going on to the Bombadil were last used as a double on a cyclocross
bike and worked great with a 30/44 with Campy ergo brifters.  I'm
wondering what's the biggest jump on a double you've run.  Kevens
dream Bomba has a 24/40, for 16t of jump.  34/50 is standard on
compact road cranks nowadays.  I'm thinking of trying a 46/29 on these
Ritchey arms.  I've never run TA or TA-style cranks that I think allow
even more flexibility.  Has anyone ever run a 20+ tooth jump between
two chainrings?

[Garth]

 Matt, since cassettes can be had quite inexpensively for the perfectly adequate ones, that buys a whole lotta cassettes compared to the cost of new crank. BB and rings.

Otherwise, If your crank is 110/74 triple there's no one stopping you from just using different rings with it rather than a new crank.

[Pancake]

Thanks to recommendations on this list (and from looking at Analog's article) I ended up with:

46/30 front rings on Velo Orange double crankset with Shimano RX100 derailleur

11-40t sunrace cassette 9 speed with Shimano XT long cage derailleur (the LX also worked)

Huge range (exactly the same as my prior 46/36/24 triple and 11-34t cassette), normal and widely available derailleurs/cassette, and similar cranksets can be found for less than $100 (though not at pretty as this shiny VO model that's not available anymore). 

When cross chained small front, small rear, there's a chain rub on the teeth of the large chainring which some .6mm spacers will eventually correct, but for now it doesn't happen that I'm ever cross chained that way so no problem!

Abe "in a valley where he wants range for flats and hills"

[Matthew P]

Thanks for the responses.  Great stuff.

The triple with a guard on the big ring presents a conundrum for me.  If I have a triple crankset, then it is probably most useful as a triple.  

Yet, I don't think I need a triple; a double can do the job, while simplifying.  But I don't want a "crippled triple" - a triple with the big ring taken away.

Highlighting the importance of the cassette is a great call, and I hope wider ranges become more commonplace and less pricey.

The high gears and big cassette ring are not the crucial point for me.  Yes, I'd like to get over 38 T on the big ring.  I get to the 46/11 combination on my touring bike somewhat regularly in hilly San Diego.

But about 40-48 T is fine for the big(gest) ring.  Anywhere in there.

More tricky is the low end: how to have a small ring up front that isn't just for climbing, but to still be able to climb.  This is where the wide range cassette seems to be most useful.

Thank you Abe (& James @ Analog Cycles) for the link to the Turkey Vulture Supreme gearing article.  I think its right on.

I was unaware of Middleburn and had only heard of a derailer clutc; I didn't know what it does or that apparently the SRAM version is better than Shimano (thoughts?).

Take care all.

-Matthew

(formerly MAP, my initials, but no longer, to not confuse with MAP Cycles)

San Diego

[Nick Payne]

My gearing seems to have pretty much standardized around using 42/29 chainrings, mostly on 94BCD cranks, but I also have a couple of pairs of Middleburn RS7 cranks using their Duo chainrings in the same sizes. For cassettes, I use 11-34 for bikes where I'm not carrying much of a load, and 11-40 for bikes where I'm potentially carrying a touring load. I find that 42x11 is good for a bit over 50kph down a hill - anything more than that, and I'm faster getting into a tuck than to continue pedalling.

When I started road racing in the 1970s, the standard top gear on a racing bike was 52x13, which is exactly the same gear size as 44x11. Riders won the TdF on that - so I get pretty amused when non-racing cyclists claim they need a bigger gear than that...

Nick

[KenP]

  Our Local bike shop recommended the"microSHIFT FD-R732-F Braze-on 3 x 10 speed Road Bike 52-39-30T Front Derailleur"

on Ebay to shift wide range gearing on my new front crank from Rene Hearse on the Appaloosa. Thank goodness it worked.  Glad to see this thread for other solutions as well.

Ken

[David Hallerman]

I'm fascinated how the double crankset in Shimano's newish gravel group, GRX, is 48/31.

I think they should have done 46/31, but still good.

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