JB Green not really up to loaded touring

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

I really like the JB Green tires for the snappy/cushy/grippy ride quality, and have been enjoying them for awhile on my non-Rivendell sport-touring bicycle. Last week, I did a partial tour (moderately loaded - front Ortlieb panniers and a big Carradice saddlebag, etc) of the Oregon Coast, then back to Portland for a couple days of exploring that fine city. During a four-day period, I had two front flats and two rear flats. Two of the four flats were caused by tiny thorns, one by some unidentified metal object, and one I never did diagnose. My second flat on the front tire resulted in me riding on it for a 100 feet or so until I could get the bike stopped, and that left the tire cut and shredded beyond the point that I'd consider using the tire again. Luckily I packed a spare tire (700x32 Pasela TG) that got me through the rest of the trip.

I had envisioned a light-zippy bike for moderately loaded touring, but after this experiment I must recommend a tougher tire than JB Green. I still plan to use this fantastic tire for light-loaded applications on decent roads. For moderately loaded applications, I think I'll use Marathon Racers or Supremes next time.

My write-up of the tour (sans flat tire talk) is here.
http://hiawathacyclery.blogspot.com/2011/09/oregon-coast-tour.html

[James Warren]

 

Opposite results for me actually. I had moderate load, big hoss bag and mini-rack front with little loafer and handlebar bag with stuff attached to the top of the mini-rack. My load included clothing, tent, sleeping bag, thermarest. It does sound like your load might have been a little more than mine. Mine was for four days, camping three nights.

 

Anyway, I was on an Atlantis with Jack Brown greens. No problems at all, and they rode great. It sounds like I was lucky and got from the tires what you were hoping for, Jim. Sorry about your flats.

 

But I did get flats front and rear on an unloaded ride at home 4 weeks later on the same set-up! Goatheads I believe, two patches rear and one patch front.

 

-Jim W.

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[Dave @ Riv]

The Jack Brown BLUES are the ticket.

On Sep 21, 2:10 pm, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery <thill....@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

The BLUES are definitely flat resistant, but then there goes the fast, lively feeling I was after. Can't have it all, I guess.

[Steve Palincsar]

On Wed, 2011-09-21 at 14:48 -0700, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote:
> The BLUES are definitely flat resistant, but then there goes the fast,
> lively feeling I was after. Can't have it all, I guess.

Same is true for those armored tires you mentioned as alternate choices,
right?

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

I like the Marathon Racers quite a bit in terms of lively ride quality, with the tougher Marathon Supremes being only a little bit less lively. I tried the JB Blues on 3 bikes (Atlantis, Romulus, and Santana tandem), and never cared for them. JB Greens are among my favorite tires, but delicate.

[James Warren]

As a point of contrast, I had mentioned my good luck with the JB green on a short tour, but I forgot to mention one other fact. My JB's were new out of the bag, and that ride was the first time they were used.

 

-Jim W.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery
Sent: Sep 21, 2011 2:10 PM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] JB Green not really up to loaded touring

I really like the JB Green tires for the snappy/cushy/grippy ride quality, and have been enjoying them for awhile on my non-Rivendell sport-touring bicycle. Last week, I did a partial tour (moderately loaded - front Ortlieb panniers and a big Carradice saddlebag, etc) of the Oregon Coast, then back to Portland for a couple days of exploring that fine city. During a four-day period, I had two front flats and two rear flats. Two of the four flats were caused by tiny thorns, one by some unidentified metal object, and one I never did diagnose. My second flat on the front tire resulted in me riding on it for a 100 feet or so until I could get the bike stopped, and that left the tire cut and shredded beyond the point that I'd consider using the tire again. Luckily I packed a spare tire (700x32 Pasela TG) that got me through the rest of the trip.

I had envisioned a light-zippy bike for moderately loaded touring, but after this experiment I must recommend a tougher tire than JB Green. I still plan to use this fantastic tire for light-loaded applications on decent roads. For moderately loaded applications, I think I'll use Marathon Racers or Supremes next time.

[Forrest]

Jim, do you use the Racers in 30 or 35? (Also, do you carry them in your shop?)  -- Forrest

[newenglandbike]

schwalbe marathon plus ftw.   flats = seldom, very seldom

[Larry Powers]

Isn't that fast lively feeling pretty much gone on a loaded touring bike?  I ride belted tires on all my bikes, Pasela Tourguards, Ruffy Tuffy or Jack brown Blue.  I am a heavy rider anyways and I hate changing flats so I do not have a problem riding belted tires.  Jack Brown Blue are the tires I am putting on all my bikes that can fit them.  We have been using them on our tandem where the rider load alone is just over 400lbs and had good results.  We even spent a week loaded touring on the tandem without a flat.
 
Loaded touring requires different tools that light sport riding.  My Atlantis is not as light and lively as my Rambouilet but I would not take the Rampouilet loaded touring.

Larry Powers
 
Get a bicycle.  You will not regret it if you live. - Mark Twain

 

---

Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 14:48:18 -0700
From: thil...@gmail.com
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: JB Green not really up to loaded touring

The BLUES are definitely flat resistant, but then there goes the fast, lively feeling I was after. Can't have it all, I guess.

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[Kelly Sleeper]

I don't consider that a review of the tire.  Rather a list of items you ran over that punctured the tire with.   You can ride months and never have a problem then have 4 flats in one day.  Is it the tire or  just a really bad day.   The Jack Browns have proven themselves over time for many riders in many conditions. 

There are many tires and many levels of flat protection out there.   I know my Marathon Plus tires would be riddled with goat heads but never flatten while my friends were changing tires all day.   I just pulled them out.  They are heavy though.  Yet with 4 people  3 tours fully loaded and 2 thousand miles on each bike there wasn't a single flat.  Actually since 2008 and general riding I've never experienced a flat on any of the bikes with those tires.    

I road my JB's for 3000+ mile with no flats and then got two in a week.  (both on rear)  Noticed as well that the tire was a bit thin and the nice flat wear pattern had been established and all signs of tread gone. I didn't wait for the third flat I just replaced the tire.  Oh ya my rule.. three flats and I replace the tire.

So back to the JB's I'm 225 lbs and usually carry 15 lbs on the back.  Just for meandering around. I ride them over curbs, through fields, single track, nasty shoulders and sidewalks etc.  They've been good for me yet I wouldn't use them for a loaded tour.  Then again I wouldn't use the bike I have them on for a loaded tour.   They are too skinny for my Bombadil so guess I'll have to get that lively feeling out of my Big Apples there.

Kelly

[MKahrl]

I've had the same good luck as Kelly with JB Greens. For each of the
four tires I experienced the first flat at mile: 2347,1940, 3288, and
3012. For the last two tires the first flat was also the last, the
black rubber was completely worn off and a hole in the casing allowed
the tube to blow out. The first tire is still being used on a front
wheel with 6326 miles and only one flat. I don't understand why it
has lived so long.

I currently have a JB Blue on a rear wheel with 2366 miles and no
flats. I cannot feel any difference between the Green Label and Blue
Label.

[Tim McNamara]

On Sep 22, 2011, at 6:59 AM, Larry Powers wrote:

> Loaded touring requires different tools that light sport riding. My Atlantis is not as light and lively as my Rambouilet but I would not take the Rampouilet loaded touring.

As an aside, many "loaded touring" cyclists are really "overloaded touring" cyclists. When I read crazyguyonabike.com reports of people hauling 85 lbs of stuff on their bikes my response is "WTF?"

Google "Igor Kovse" who does extended camping tours with about 10-15 lbs worth of gear, including things like riding through Tibet, across southern Africa, across the US and Canada. He takes things to an extreme (for example, he rides in Crocs because they are lighter than cycling shoes and very comfortable), but he hauls less stuff for a month long tour than a lot of people take on an S24O. I did a 10 day non-camping tour of the Alps in 2002 and all of my gear for the entire trip fit in my Carradice Nelson LongFlap, probably 10-11 pounds of stuff.

Without the masses of excess stuff turning a bike into a two wheeled Winnebago, one can readily tour around the world on a bike like a Rambouillet. Kovse uses an aluminum Giant racing bike with a CF fork, for pete's sake. Surely a Rambouillet would be a much more graceful choice for that sort of thing. And of course thousands of people have done traditional loaded touring on bikes much less suitable for that task than a Rambouillet.

[Larry Powers]

> Subject: [RBW] Re: JB Green not really up to loaded touring

> From: tim...@bitstream.net
> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 09:01:18 -0500
> To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com

>
>
> On Sep 22, 2011, at 6:59 AM, Larry Powers wrote:
>
> > Loaded touring requires different tools that light sport riding. My Atlantis is not as light and lively as my Rambouilet but I would not take the Rampouilet loaded touring.
>
> As an aside, many "loaded touring" cyclists are really "overloaded touring" cyclists. When I read crazyguyonabike.com reports of people hauling 85 lbs of stuff on their bikes my response is "WTF?"

 

This falls under ignorance is bliss (a good thing sometimes).  Some of my best camping trips were early on when I grabbed anyting I had and put it in a cheap Boy Scout napsack and headed off for a couple of nights in the woods.  Now I look back and say what was I thinking.  But they were good trips.  I am often envious of those who with minimal knowledge use what they have and go touring. 

 

>
> Google "Igor Kovse" who does extended camping tours with about 10-15 lbs worth of gear, including things like riding through Tibet, across southern Africa, across the US and Canada. He takes things to an extreme (for >example, he rides in Crocs because they are lighter than cycling shoes and very comfortable), but he hauls less stuff for a month long tour than a lot of people take on an S24O. I did a 10 day non-camping tour of the Alps >in 2002 and all of my gear for the entire trip fit in my Carradice Nelson LongFlap, probably 10-11 pounds of stuff.

 

Sounds interesting, I will look that up.  One of my camping rigs is my Atlantis with a Hoss and a Boxy Baggins.  I have done 4 day trips with this hauling 15 to 20 lbs of gear.  This is possible because I am lucky enough to have aquired a good set of ultralight (and expensive) gear and I am willing to ruff it more then most.  When my wife and I do a camping tour we carry more gear and gear that is more comfortable (heavier).  On these trips more time is spent in camp especially if we are in a group so the trade off of more comfort and weight is worth it.

 

>
> Without the masses of excess stuff turning a bike into a two wheeled Winnebago, one can readily tour around the world on a bike like a Rambouillet. Kovse uses an aluminum Giant racing bike with a CF fork, for pete's >sake. Surely a Rambouillet would be a much more graceful choice for that sort of thing. And of course thousands of people have done traditional loaded touring on bikes much less suitable for that task than a Rambouillet.
>

 

In my mind a Rambouillet would be a better bike.  If it was the only bike I had I would use it for touring.  My friend who road Bikecentennial in '76 has commented that most of the people used racing bikes or sport touring bikes since not much else was available at that time.  And most finished the trip and had a good time doing it.

[Michael_S]

I've had a bout the same kind of flat frequency with the Marathon Racers as JB Greens. The Racers do have a nice ride and I think they roll faster than the JB's.  My experiece was with a 38mm Racer.

I'm now thinking of getting the 30mm Racers for my Rando bike to replace GB Cypres's. The rear just developed  a large casing seperation after about 700 miles making it unridable.  Now those are delicate tires.

 

~mike

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

True, my one week of experience in Oregon is not a comprehensive review of the JB Green tire. I would say it's more a review of Oregon street sweeping programs. I have ridden these tires maybe 500-1000 miles in generally well-swept Minneapolis, with no flats. I selected the JB Green specifically because it is among the lightest tires in the 700x32-35 range, not because I expected lots of flat-resistance. I also used lightweight tubes. I will continue to use the JB Green for my general riding in town, long day rides, maybe gravel rides, etc.

Of course, for "loaded touring", we all have our own level of risk tolerance. For my next trip, I expect to be further from civilization, with more dire consequences for a disabled bike. Probably going to use Marathon Extremes on my Surly Troll.