Torque spec for quil stem questions

[A. Nostuh]

I'm curious what's considered ideal torque for nitto quil stems. Most anecdotal advice is "just firm it up good and tight" like it's no big deal. But if it's too tight it could bulge and damage the steerer tube. Not tight enough it could slip can result in a really bad crash. So what's ideal in a number. Like newton metre that I can plug into my torque wrench to get the correct feel for.

Thanks gang
Al

[tc]

Al,

If you have a Riv bike, and kept the owner's manual that came with it, there should be a torque spec sheet for various bike fasteners in there.  I'm not home at the moment, but can check when I get there if you still need the info.

Tom

[Garth]

The fact that every mfr. offers different "advice" on torque values for a given part, pretty much says it all . 

If you think a number on a torque meter is going to guarantee to anything, think again . Every torque wrench varies from another.  So take that into account along with no agreed upon standard for all situations for everyone all the time absolutely ..... who and what are you going to trust, at-hand, here and now , this bike, this moment  ?   Is life dependent on it ?  Are you absolutely sure ?

You answer !

[tc]

Found it...attached. 10-12 ft/lb. Additional torque recommendations on the sheet.

Tom

[A. Nostuh]

Well I had a bike shop build up a bike and one day the quill stem slipped and handlebars rotated and I did nearly crash so yes you might say your life could depend on it. I don't think it would be rocket science but if you're the type of person who even would read or be aware of lists like this then you also probably tend to over think things relating to bicycles. I have no idea how tight you would have to crank it to bulge the steerer but good frames and forks cost a lot of money so I wouldn't want to damage it either by over tightening.

[A. Nostuh]

Anyways since that incident where the stem slid in the steerer (I think the mechanic tended to booze a lot and be high on the job) I just always cranked it real good to ensure it wouldn't slip again. But I wondered if maybe I was overdoing it and bulging the steerer. Anyways seems fine but wondered what others do. Rule of thumb etc

[Jeffrey Arita]

I think with the advent of carbon fiber/resin handlebars, seatposts AND (whoa) steerer tubes the critical technical issue of torque IS required reading.  As Grant so astutely points out, that plastic material is not as forgiving as metal.  That being said, IMHO it is always a good idea to refer to published recommended torque ranges (note the range, not the actual dead-on number) for any kind of fastener.  It provides peace of mind and I do enjoy unfettered sleep.

IMHO I also think that the concept of thread coatings whether it is grease, thread-locker or anti-seize is not be emphasized enough.  I had an old Vitus 979 back in the day.  It had (of course) a standard quill stem combined with a Dura-Ace 1" threaded stem.  I rode that bike a LOT, it was lovely.  Back in those days I didn't perform maintenance.  I never adjusted the quill bolt and I sweated over the stem as we all do.  Well, one day I tried to adjust the stem and 'uh-oh' it was seized in place.  I never bothered to take it apart, clean it, re-lube or re-anti-seize it and carefully put it back together.  

Since then it has taken years to slowly collect all the tools necessary to maintain a bicycle.  I do love doing it though!

Good luck,

Jeff Arita

[Eric K]

Hi group,

12 to 15 ft-lbs on a lubricated quill bolt is entirely unnecessary in my (limited) experience.  I stop well below that (~8 ft-lbs) and find the connection to be plenty snug.  I tighten until the wedge is safely seated against the steerer tube, testing with a lateral twist as I go and stopping when the quill doesn't budge. I'd suspect hitting 12 to 15 ft-lbs on "wet" threads could be enough to deform the steerer tube, potentially resulting in a connection that may not be able to be safely and securely tightened.

Bikes steer with the slightest input from the rider.  There is not great force applied to the bars.  I need the connection snug enough not to be secure while riding, but not so snug that it won't give during a crash.

The spec'd crank bolt torque shown above must be a misprint.  Go that light and you might want to  keep some extra crank arms on hand.

[tc]

On the Riv site, I found they display the Nitto torque recommendations here:

https://www.rivbike.com/pages/nitto-torque-specs

Unfortunately their catalog doesn't have torque spec's:
http://nitto-tokyo.sakura.ne.jp/Catalog.pdf

Obviously any fastener or component manufacturer is gonna have their own specs based on material and design.  I can't find anything from Nitto unfortunately.

A Ft-lb to N-m converter is here, FWIW:
http://www.metric-conversions.org/energy-and-power/foot-pounds-to-newton-meters.htm

I admit to never using a torque wrench except when initially putting a bike together.  I don't even have a feel for whether 10ft-lbs is "too tight" or not in this specific application (for me, it'd be either a Nitto Tallux or Technomic handlebar clamp bolt, which I think is 6mm?) So therefore it'd be 5Nm according to the info Riv posted per link above?).

But if I were setting up a handlebar and my torque wrench hadn't popped after applying what felt like sufficient 'convincing', then I'd back off.  I mean, from the time we all had our 10spd Schwinn Continentals or whatever, we didn't grab Dad's torque wrench when adjusting our bars, did we?  We basically tightened the sucker until it felt right, gave it a couple of hard pushes from above in a controlled test ride in the driveway, then off to the races without a care!

[William R.]

I am very much a “by feel” kind of tech guy. It’s why I like steel so much. It allows you to operate in that manner as long as you are sensible and not a brute and know your tools. I have torque wrenches, the old fashioned kind where the arm bends and the arrow at the end points to the weight you are applying. I rarely use them these days except when I need to loosen some old, too tight part with a long arm for leverage. Mostly I have a Allen set that I got a long time ago that has longer than normal arms, but not too long. Tightening a nitto quill with one of these is perfect because it is impossible to over tighten without attaching some long arm to the Allen. Basically I just tighten until the wrench starts to hurt my hand alittle. Very unscientific! But I have never had a too loose or two tight issue using this method with metal parts.

I loved it when Jan at Compass came out with his “peanut butter knife” crank bolt wrench for his René Herse cranks. It is basically a copy of the classic Campagnolo tool. This tool fits perfectly around the crank bolt and is shaped specifically for optimal hand tightening of the crank bolt. Just tighten until your hand hurts and it is tight enough!

I would not use this method with m5 rack, bottle and fender bolts though! One could easily strip or snap those! I’m ginger with those.

My probably not too useful two cents on a cold Sunday morning nursing a cold.

Bill in Westchester, NY

[John Phillips]

I'm the kind of idiot who can over tighten a quill's stem bolt so much that I broke it. I was using a new Park torque wrench which failed to stop at the specified limit. I drove my Hunqapillar over to Riv HQ and asked Mark to look over my head tube to see if I had caused any damage to my frame.

I was lucky, Mark said my frame was ok, and he put in a new quill stem bolt. And he kindly and patiently reminded this idiot that while you need to tighten the bolt holding the bars enough to stop all movement, but you want the quill stem to be able to move laterally if you crash, to limit damage to your bike and its components. This should be enough to keep the stem from slipping down into the head tube. And he reminded me you don't need a torque wrench to do this.


John

[Deacon Patrick]

“as long as you are sensible and not a brute”

Och! Well then, I’m out. Ogres need not apply. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

[William R.]

Nah, you can handle it, I’ve heard word of a branch of ogres in the CO hill country who have learned the delicate art of finesse.