Suggestions on changes to Joe Appaloosa.

[Jim Willis]

Hi all, I am new to this group. Picked up a Joe A several weeks ago and have been mostly lurking here but after yesterday’s ride, am hoping to get some guidance from this group’s experience.

I live in NJ and usually do 1 of 2 kinds of ride:

1.) 10-15miles, strictly pavement, super flat, out to the beach and back. I do this ride almost daily just for my mental health, sometimes solo sometimes with friends, never fast.

2.) 15-25 miles: a combination of pavement, fire roads/gravel, single track with some roots 1,000-1,500 feet of climbing, some of it pretty steep.

I did ride #2 for the 3rd time this season on the Joe and think I need to make some changes to my build.

Tires:

When I picked up the Joe A, i put some gravel king SKs on it (48) hoping that these would be a nice middle of the road. I find they are OK on the road and OK on the gravel but I really think that something with a bit more volume that I could run at a slightly lower pressure would be better for the minimal though bone-jarring sections of trails with exposed roots, etc. Would love suggestions.

Gearing:

The crankset (https://www.somafabshop.com/shop/new-albion-crankset-xdd-46-34-10-sp-2200) is (i think) the “clipper double” from the Rivendell website. I think the small chainring is a 36. (My 10sp rear cassette’s lowest gear is a 36t). I need a smaller front chainring for the climbs and I’m not sure: 1.) a 34t would be small enough 2.) if not, do i need to get another crankset to do more of a compact double with a 28t or similar without breaking the bank ($100-150). Would love feedback thoughts!

In short, despite having a few other bikes (Surly LHT, Surly Midnight Special, 1986 Team Miyata) that each does one thing really well (rides to the beach, all terrain rides and fun/fast rides respectively), I love the way my Riv rides so much that I’m trying to sort of make it do the rides to beach/all terrain rides bike.

Thanks all, have really enjoyed the discussions on here and hope to be able contribute something useful! Including photos so you can see current build and a non-rooty section of the single track on my routes.

(I couldn’t resize photos to post so including link here)

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0f4Y0ThIZCUFRZWjrqQBBqvLg

Jim

[Jim Willis]

The current small chainring is 34 not 36, sorry. couldn't figure out how to edit message. In any case, a 34 is clearly not low enough for me.

[Steve]

Jim, you might try an 11-42 10 speed cassette. 11-46s are also available. Of course, depending on the capacity of your rear derailleur, you could wind up needing to replace it.  But having said that, I have found that Shimano RDs are often able to function well beyond their published specs by backing out the B screw.

[Steven Sweedler]

Another way to lower your gears without the large cassettes is to use a 94-58 bcd crankset from the early 90’s mtbs. with a 20-34 you have a 15” gear.   XT 737  cranksets are not hard to find at reasonable prices. 

Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire

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[Andy Beichler]

Did you check to see if the crank is already drilled for a triple? 

[Garth]

I see your RD is a Microshift R10 Jim. It's total capacity is 39 teeth. With your current setup of an 11-36 cassette and 34/46 rings the RD is already at near capacity, 37 teeth. So you'd need a mtb RD with more capacity to get a lower range, plus a 110/74 BCD crankset. Say even a 24/34/46 crank and your current 11-36 cassette comes to 45 total tooth capacity, which is the limit for many long cage RD's. I see Microshift has a 10sp XLE RD that has 47 tooth capacity, nice !  It looks awful in all black, but yeah well at least it's behind you when you ride  ;-).

I suppose you must have a silver crank ? If not the Dimension Cross Crank arms are easily a best buy @ $59. Despite the name they are 110/74 BCD. If your LHT is an older one with the no name silver cranks, those are the same cranks. They are made by Andel, model RSC6, stamped on the inside. The tread is a little wider than Sugino/Clippers @170mm w/115m BB, but the crank arms are thicker and notably superior in stiffness to those. I currently use them on my Bomba, I formerly used XD's. If you need rings though a complete crank is likely more suitable for you, if they come with the rings you want, however.

In nutshell you'd need a new crank and RD to get a lower gear range and more capacity. Even if you got a pie plate cassette and used a hanger extender you'd need a higher tooth capacity RD. Those pie plates are (over)priced rather high though, so keeping your current cassette and getting a tripe crank and a RD like the XLE would work well.

[Jim Willis]



all: huge thanks for giving this some thought.

Garth: This is the route that I was thinking (yes, I have the Andel triple on my LHT and have never had an issue with them). I think I have an old XT MTB RD in my parts bin so just need to find a nice looking (silver!) 110/74 BCD crankset on eBay and that will hopefully sort me out.  Really appreciate the notes about tooth capacity, i hadn’t run that formula in ages so it was good food for thought. 

Now, if anyone has any tire suggestions :-)

Thanks.

On Mar 23, 2025, at 5:16 PM, Garth <gart...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Nick Payne]

My Appaloosa is running 36-24 chainrings on a 110/74BCD crank with an 11-40 cassette. RD is a Shimano GRX 810, only rated by Shimano for a 34t cassette, but with the B screw most of the way in it copes with the 40t cog no problem. I generally buy my 110/74 cranks as bare crankarms from Spa Cycles in the UK - they charge STG30 for the arms, plus whatever postage would be.

Nick Payne

[der_amerikanische_freund]

Regarding tire choices, you could stick with the Gravelkings SK but in their widest size, 2.1". I think this is a new offering that didn't use to exist. Also by Panaracer although branded Ultradynamico are their 29x2.2 offerings (https://ultradynamico.com/collections/tires/products/mars-jff?variant=39763280920661)

Otherwise, Teravail Sparwoods in 29x2.2 are fairly similar (https://www.teravail.com/products/sparwood-tire?srsltid=AfmBOoqAzbtwtsL0zcgDkUtm66VyksBkJXgk0g-LR7w4OXWVQD_aKjCX)

Regards

[iamkeith]

You've got good advice and direction on gearing.  I think the Appaloosa sounds like the perfect bike for the riding you do.  Thought I'd chime in on tires:

Most of my riding sounds similar to yours, with the exception of the mix leaning slightly more toward off-pavement in rockier (rocky mountain) soil.  I come from a mountain biker background, but have seen the light:  High volume, supple sidewalls and a good rubber compound are the key for almost everything, and I think that basically all types of knobby treads are overkill the vast majority of the time.  (Unless you're drifting through high-speed, banked turns at a mountain bike park, or smashing through jagged rock gardens, big knobs are mostly about magazine hype and testosterone.  But similarly, unless you're racing in a peloton and leaning hard into corners on loose gravel, even "gravel" treads are mostly overkill too.)

Additionally, without knobs, you can fit a bigger-volume casing.  Depending on the vintage of your Appaloosa and rim width, you may be able to fit a 2.3 or 2.4 or 2.5 inch tire.

Schwalbe's G-one tires are perfect.  They were originally developed for mixed-surface racing with beaches and sand floatation being part of it.  On asphalt though, they feel fast like a road tire.  I can't keep up with the regular tech updates and proprietay names for their different compounds they offer, so you might need to do some research.  FWIW

https://www.schwalbetires.com/G-One-Speed-11654585

[Jim Willis]

@nick: I'd be interested in seeing what a triple looks like just leaving off the large chainring. I presume it really depends on the triple but I'd love to find something that looks passable, as it's tricky to find a silver compact double that doesn't break the bank. The 2 chainrings on a triple seems like a tenable solution though I still haven't had a chance to measure the BB to see if swapping a double to triple is feasible or if I'd need a new BB as well, at which point this whole thing is getting a bit pricey, I'll just do more squats :-)

@Andy, unfortunately, no it's not already drilled for triple. 

[James McGregor]

Hey, fellow New Jerseyan - my riding mix sounds pretty similar to yours.  Here's what I did on my Hunqapillar: 26/36 on an old Shimano MTB triple, with the outer ring replaced with a bash guard from BBG.

James in South Orange

[Jim Willis]

@James that Shimano triple option looks great (and possibly affordable), thanks. Also, if you're not familiar with the gravel/county parks in the Navesink/Highlands areas, feel free to reach out for some route suggestions. 

Jim

[James McGregor]

Nice - I may hit you up!  My usual gravel routes are in Hunterdon/Warren/Sussex - I was up there on Friday riding some great doubletrack in Stokes State Forest.

On the triple setup - I'll send you some more details when I'm home tomorrow.  I thought I had exact info in a Google spreadsheet, but it seems to be on my home computer.

James

[Garth]

Hey JIm, what length arms do you need ?

[David Ross]

I’ve built a lot of bikes over the years and I think spending a lot on square taper cranks isn’t at all necessary. I’d get some old Shimano or Ritchey cranks off of EBay with decent tapers. An old triple with a 36 mid and something 24 or lower for the small is fantastic. Use the large chainring as a bash guard unless you would indeed use something larger in certain situations. 

I’m in NJ as well, and I don’t think you can do better than Vittoria Mezcals for the type of riding you’re doing. I’ve tried a lot of different tires but always end up coming back to the Mezcals. You can get the Mezcal XC these days with the black sidewall that’s not quite as goofy as the gray sidewall models. 

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[Jim Willis]

Garth

I think I’ve got 175 on both the LHT and the Joe A.

Jim

On Mar 24, 2025, at 12:56 PM, Garth <gart...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey JIm, what length arms do you need ?

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[Jim Willis]

David:

Thanks for this, The triple seems to be the route to go, I just want to find something that looks passable since the rest of the bike (currently, at least) looks so good.

I’ve had a few folks suggest the Mezcal’s. I’m wondering if I could run the 2.35s or not or if the 2.25s are sufficiently wide.

Jim

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[Ben Miller]

Jim, 

Merry Sales (which is Soma Fab) has the New Albion Crankset in 42/28. It's the same as the Riv Clipper crankset. In stock, in silver, and $130. That keep you within the 39 teeth capacity of your RD. They also have a 42/26 if you want a lower gear and live life on the edge :)

Some good tyre already suggestions, but I'll throw out one more: Schwalbe Thunder Burt 29x2.1. I roll them on my Hunq (well, I actually have the 2.1 in the rear, and the 2.35 in the front). They roll pretty fast on the road, have a micro tread in the center, and descent but not too aggressive side knobs. They're easier to mount tubeless than RH or UltraDymanico tyres (if you are into that), and you can get them cheaper. Probably a bit more rolling resistance than a RH or UltraD tyre, but again still pretty fast.

[David P]

I recently switched from RH Snoqualmie Pass (standard casing) to Schwalbe G-One Allrounders (622-40) on my Sam Hillborne and Disc Trucker and I love them.  Much more puncture resistant than the Snoqualmie Pass (running tubes).  They are quiet running (unlike the RH Hurricane Ridge I tried) and don't pick up a lot of grit/gravel.  If you could get them in a width that satisfies you, they are wonderful riding tires.

[Nick Payne]

On Tuesday, 25 March 2025 at 12:30:27 am UTC+11 sjwi...@willisbros.net wrote:

@nick: I'd be interested in seeing what a triple looks like just leaving off the large chainring. I presume it really depends on the triple but I'd love to find something that looks passable, as it's tricky to find a silver compact double that doesn't break the bank.

 

Here's a Sugino XD 110/74 crank where I fitted an old chainring with the teeth removed in the outer position. The actual chainrings are 36-24:

Nick Payne

[Jason Fuller]

I'm largely overlapping with all the sound advice you've already received, but my votes: 

Tires: Continental Race King 2.2" - fast enough on pavement you won't be bothered, grippy enough on trails for any "XC" type of riding.  I also really like the Rene Herse knobbies, if you want tan wall that's my vote.  I have ridden all sorts of terrain on the RH knobbies and have never had to think about my tires - even on blue MTB trails.

Drivetrain: Big fan of 1990s 110/74 triples here - they are cheap and plentiful, basically Silver cranks for a fraction of the cost and usually lighter. So many gearing options; I run 38/24 on my Bombadil and that works great - I use the top gears, but never need more. And I like to pair them with a matching era front derailleur, LX or XT typically, which are dime a dozen in 28.6mm clamp.  The only downside of this route is that 90% of the used market are 175mm cranks, so if you want shorter they become harder to find.  I find 170mm comes up regularly enough, though.  

[John Johnson]

I have a clipper triple I'm not using, that might interest you. 

I'll send you a PM.

John

[Eric Daume]

Anything from Soma, I suggest you get on their email list and wait a few weeks before buying. They are regularly having 25-65% off sales to clear out inventory. 

Eric 

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[James McGregor]

I'm actually running 24-36 in the front.  The cranks are Shimano FC-M730.  Distance from the derailleur cage to the chainrings was a little tough to pin down, but I got everything working nicely with a modern Shimano derailleur and a Problem Solvers adapter.  If you go down this road and order a BBG chainguard, don't get the 1/16" "superlight" - I have the 1/8" on another bike and it has needed much less straightening after bumps on logs, etc

[Shannon Menkveld]

On Sunday, March 23, 2025 at 6:00:26 PM UTC-7 sjwi... wrote:

I think I have an old XT MTB RD in my parts bin so just need to find a nice looking (silver!) 110/74 BCD crankset on eBay and that will hopefully sort me out.   

I'm a big fan of the Shimano Deore FC-MT60 crank. Light, pretty, & strong, plus millions of them were made, so they're plentiful and cheap. Heck, most co-ops should have at least one in the bin-o-cranks. 

Other plusses:

110x74, so the widest variety of chainrings of any non-TA-type crankset, (every even-numbered ring from 24 to 52, plus 39, 45, and 53, and 47s aren't hard to find,) and they'll be available until the heat death of the Universe. Low Q for a triple: 150 mm with a 122.5 mm bottom bracket. I've got one on my '85 League Fuji, with a 68x118.5 BB, so Q should be around 145.

The only downside to them is that the anodizing seems to be particularly prone to heel scuffs.

--Shannon

[Jim Willis]

I just wanted to follow up on this thread and thank everyone for their input and suggestions. After a few weeks of fiddling and DMs with several folks on this thread, I think I've finally landed on a satisfying setup for my Joe Appaloosa. 

After some experimenting w/ some triples from the parts bin, I decided to pick up a new set of New Albion 42/26 Cranks. The 26 is great, I like the chain guard and the triples I had were so beat up they looked out of place (for now) on the fairly pristine Appaloosa.

I put on the Mezcal tires which for my riding were about 1000 x better than the  gravel kings. I simply needed more volume than the GKs could offer if I was going to navigate the occasional stretch of single track on my rides.

Also, I have an XT RD on right now but it's old and janky and the cage has a lot of lateral play but it shifts and handles all of the gears. I am likely going to swap that out for the Altus M310 (cheap, silver and I'm curious about the larger pulley wheels).

Todo: I need a rear rack (R10?) for my Carradice bag. The Bagman I have keeps it off the rear tire so long as I'm not doing any significant bouncing but a lot of my rides end up with me getting some tire rub, so if anyone has a rear rack they're looking to get rid of, please let me know! And, again, huge thanks to this group.

[EGNolan]

Looks great, I got the same Clipper crank for my Joe and it has worked wonderfully (as expected). These are wonderfully versatile bikes, it's worth dialing in for your specific uses.  

Best,

Eric N

Indpls, IN

[Jason Fuller]

You can also get support struts for the Bagman which should do exactly what you need!  I only recently discovered these, I think they're pretty new. 
https://www.kissingcrowsoutpost.com/products/carradice-bagman-support-struts

[Jim Willis]

Amazing. Thank you!

On Apr 23, 2025, at 6:08 PM, Jason Fuller <jtf.f...@gmail.com> wrote:

You can also get support struts for the Bagman which should do exactly what you need!  I only recently discovered these, I think they're pretty new. 
https://www.kissingcrowsoutpost.com/products/carradice-bagman-support-struts

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