Ride Quality Difference between the Atlantis and Clem H?

[max.c....@gmail.com]

Hey all, I am a wannabe Riv owner. One day, when the mood of my wife and bank account align...at least that's my hope. 

I browse a lot of used listings and sometimes will see a deal pop up that I'm interested in, but feel like I don't have enough info to confidently purchase. Looking for some insight especially from those who have ridden multiple Riv models.

I have a special nostalgia for the Rivendell Atlantis -- the color, the geometry; it just seems like my dream bike and I don't have a justification. The price is steep, though. I have been curious what the difference in ride quality is when compared with the Clem H, as that's more in my price range and I see used ones come up for sale much more frequently. Obviously it's a different look and I'm missing lugs, etc, but it does have those crazy long stays. What's the difference in ride quality? Especially if I'm riding upright.

A couple of notes: I live in very flat Dallas, I primarily use my bike as a commuter (towing my HappiSack) with a 10 mile radius but would also like to do some light touring. My preferred set up is riding upright.

If anyone else would care to weigh in with a comparison between the ride quality of the Atlantis and other Riv models, I'd be interested in those too! Just trying to arm myself with information in a market where I often am shopping online and unable to try before I buy.

Thanks,

Max

[James Warren]

I’m an Atlantis owner and a family member of a Clem owner, which I have ridden. Disclaimer: that Clem is 2 cm above my ideal size.

If it were me, I’d save up and get an Atlantis, especially if pre-owned. A used one probably has less tire room, but still has a lot of tire room, and the newest ones, according to the Riv site fit 2.4”, which I think matches the Clem. And it rides better, more efficient. It’s all around a more versatile bike if you’re looking for a do-all with road-riding in mind as well as trails.

And even if you find one of the oldest models (mine’s generation 1 from 2000) the tire clearance will still be close to 2”. And the tire room only got better as the model evolved from 2000 to now.

I’ve used my Atlantis for every kind of riding I enjoy (which does not include steep downhill fast rocky mountain biking!)

Touring - amazing

Dirt road bike packing - amazing

Commuting - amazing

Cross country mountain biking and dirt climbing - amazing

Drop bar road riding - very good

- Jimmy W.

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[max.c....@gmail.com]

Thanks for the feedback Jimmy!

[dougP]

Max:

I have a 58 cm 2003 Atlantis that has seen extensive use in all the categories Jim mentioned and agree with his evaluations.  I have fitted 50 mm tires to it but chosen to run 40 mm as my optimal size.  The bike is amazingly versatile & came with drop bars which were fine for years until the penny dropped & I went upright for even more comfort.  I've used several kinds of racks on it, both for light around town use & fully loaded touring.  It handles everything with style. 

I've never ridden a Clem so obviously I'm highly biased in this but if the Atlantis is your dream bike, go for it.  A frequent comment from list members who've sold an Atlantis is "I wish I hadn't done that". 

Used ones pop up here from time to time, usually in the common frame sizes.  While there is nothing like a brand new bike (I still remember pulling mine out of the shipping box), a used Atlantis is still a great bike.  It's not as if steel frames wear out.  Besides, if the Atlantis is your dream bike & you pass on it, you will always wonder "...what if?...". 

dougP

[E. Ricky Creek]

It is time for me to fess up as to how many Riv's were (until recently) in my garage: 7. I ride a Waterford Atlantis, a Waterford Hillborne (rare canti/double TT 56cm), a Simpleone, and I recently sold a Gomez and a Clem H. My wife rides a Cheviot and an Appaloosa (both are in my size range). I rode the Clem H for 5-6 years and every time I rode it I thought "I just don't love this bike, but it is the bike I ride the most (commuter)." I ride a 58cm traditionally sized bike and found the 52 Clem H just never fit right (too small). The 60cm Yves Gomez was too big and never felt comfortable. Much like you my dream bike (since 2004) was the Atlantis. I've had mine for 4 years. If I only could keep one bike, it would be the Atlantis. I am not as fond of the long chainstays as others here are, but I have ridden them and didn't think they are bad, but I prefer the ride of my Hillborne and Atlantis (and sometimes when my knees are feeling okay the Simpleone). If you are into bikes and dream of different bikes and spent crazy amounts of time looking at bikes (and parts!), thinking that X bike will complete your bike quest, then buying your dream bike now may not truly satisfy your hunger. I bought, rode, sold, traded, gave away many bikes on my journey to my current stable, which is perfect for me. But if I'd started way back in 2003 (when I got into riding as an "adult") with this bunch of bikes I likely wouldn't feel the way about them as I do now. I don't know what the answer is for you, nor does anyone, really, but you can't go wrong with any bike that fits you and you enjoy riding. Plus if you score a Clem on this list, it will still be worth what you paid in a year (maybe more?!), and folks on this list are always up for a "new" bike. 

That was long winded and didn't answer your question. The Clem H rode slow and fat for me (as I am slow and fat), and it didn't fit me right because of the huge gap between sizes. The Atlantis (original style) rides much more like a traditional touring bike (stable, easy handling), which I prefer. I rode a LHT for years and the Atlantis rides more similar, though much better, that that. The bikes were set up with upright bars (though the Atlantis now has wide drops, which I prefer). 

[Jason Fuller]

Similar to others, I am in-between Clem sizes and therefore sold mine largely just due to poor fit, but also it cannot be overstated that the Clem is a utility bike through and through:  the tubing is heavy and offers no liveliness of ride, but it will last a lifetime of grocery store runs and doing whatever you ask of it, as long as you don't ask it to be sporty.  

If you want ride quality, get the Atlantis for sure. Even though it's a stout bike, the Atlantis was designed with ride quality much higher up the priority list than the Clem IMO. 

[Patrick Moore]

This interests me, since I've thought of a Clem as a budget "cruiser" addition to my bike wardrobe. "Cruiser" covers a multitude of sins (quoting St Paul out of context), but all equal, I'd prefer a frame that didn't feel dead.

Others: Do you find the Clem "non-lively" compared to other (which?) Riv frames?

Patrick "OTOH, my perfectly acceptable 2012 Monocog frame does not present itself as 'dead'" Moore

On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 4:56 PM Jason Fuller <jtf.f...@gmail.com> wrote:

...  it cannot be overstated that the Clem is a utility bike through and through:  the tubing is heavy and offers no liveliness of ride ...

[Joe Bernard]

It's definitely different, you just have to know what you want a bike to do. I've owned several Clems (both styles) and they all have an unique ability to gain momentum and keep it..like once you get up to speed it kinda wants to stay there. But it's a relatively heavy cruiser which isn't going to win any races, especially up hill. Its trick is it will carry lots of stuff all day and leave you alone to sit up and look around at the scenery. A great bike for the things it's supposed to be great at, in my opinion.  

[Jason Fuller]

That's a good point, Joe - I think the Clem's tubing is "tuned" to carry a load. Thinking more about it, the bike rode best when it was loaded down for me.  I imagine this is true of the Atlantis too but perhaps more of a lightweight camp gear load, not heavy groceries load.  

I was also on the 45cm H model, which is the stiffest possible option in terms of triangulation (tight front triangle, and relatively short 45cm stays).  That could have a lot to do with it. 

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[max.c....@gmail.com]

Thanks all for weighing in -- it's been helpful! It has made me think (so far) that the Clem would give me more of what I currently have with my mid 80s Schwinn Cimarron and the Atlantis would give me a new experience, which is what I think I'm after.

[Jason Fuller]

If there is one thing you can count on this group for, it's the up-sell. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d2769324-1907-4354-b6d1-8cf7ae516d9an%40googlegroups.com.

[Joe Bernard]

Money buys lugs and butted tubing, baby. Buy up! 

[max.c....@gmail.com]

Haha, that got a laugh out of me! I'm saving as we speak...

[Jim Whorton]

Great question and thread.  I've been wondering the same thing.  While I appreciate Riv's insistence on keeping stuff like frame weights and tube specs in the background, I have wondered what kind of difference I'd feel between the 59cm Clem H that I have now and an Atlantis.  We had a great Riv dealer here in Rochester for a while, but Yellow Haus has closed, unfortunately, so a test ride is unlikely.

Like Joe and Jason, I've found the Clem rides really nicely with a load.

Jim in Rochester, NY

[Gill]

Expectancy bias should perhaps be factored into the equation. The Atlantis is a fancier more expensive bike and that fact can’t help but influence perceptions. As someone who has had both bikes I would contend that if you rode them both blindfolded (admittedly a dicey undertaking) you’d be happy with either and hard pressed to tell the difference. 

[Joe Bernard]

I don't agree. I've owned both and the MIT Atlantis is perceptably lighter and zippier. Is it a massive difference? No, I don't think that question was being asked. 

Joe Bernard

[Collin A]

I think the ride quality difference will come down to fit, and style of setup (i.e. light wheels and supple tires vs. durable wheels and touring tires), with the primary difference being driven by whichever bike fits you best. 

Unfortunately, the Clems have only 3 sizes, and that will tend to limit how good the fit can get without major compromises if you don't perfectly line up. This was (one reason) why I switched from a Clem to an Appaloosa, I needed like a 50.5 2017 clem to fit correctly and the 51 Joe was a perfect size.

Collin, former clem owner, in Sacramento

[Tim Bantham]

I currently have a Sam Hillborne and a Joe Appaloosa. I find that combination ideal perfect for my needs. I picked up a 59 Clem H at the end of 2019 and built it up as an Analog mountain bike. Spent a ton of money on premium parts and ended up selling the bike less than a year later. I think Jason nailed it in his first response. Bike is a great utilitarian that will last a lifetime of use. For me I just found the bike way too long and heavy for what I wanted it to d . I know a lot of people love the Clem but I found it to be dull and unresponsive. It didn't spark joy like my Sam and Joe. I'd suggest saving for the Atlantis.