VO vs Berthoud fenders

[Edwin W]

I am eventually going to get around to putting bigger fenders on my Appaloosa, and was looking at VO's 700x63 and Berthoud's 700x60 from Peter White. 

Any experience or differences? It looks like the Berthoud's are predrilled in the same way, for the stays, so you have to add a hole for a rack attachment up front and bridge in the rear. I like my 700x50s from VO now, but I always trust Peter White's choices in his offerings...

Then when I wear out my Barlow Pass tires I can move up to Snoqualmie Pass or their 700x50 offerings when they come out (fictional thus far,don't get too excited).

Appreciate any thoughts or experiences,

Edwin

[Patrick Moore]

I've used (up) about 3 pairs of Berthoud stainless steel fenders on my '03 Riv (3d time lucky) and I used another pair on another Rivendell. Oddly, they dent more easily than the 2 pairs of hammered Honjos I've used; whether this be the aluminum or the texture. Too bad no one carries Honjo 559 X 50s -- wait, I just learned that Soma carries 26" (as opposed to 650B) X 45 and X 50 in a few styles, but at astronomical prices: $150 and $167 caught my eye before I quickly shut the window. Next year, perhaps.

Anyway, at least the "hammered" Honjos are more dent resistant than the plain SS Berthouds and more so too than plain VO aluminum fenders, at least of a few years ago. 

Me, if I could afford it, or if I'd not just used up 3 pairs trying to get this bike right, I'd choose one of the Honjos. But the Berthouds are still very nice, and not much heavier -- I seem to recall that ~50 mm 26" and 650B fenders in SKS plastic with steel hardware were 2 lb, Berthoud stainless with alum hardware at 1.5 lb, and the 26 X 50 Honjo hammereds at 1 lb more or less even.

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[Brian Campbell]

Buy the VO fenders and use Berthoud stays and attachment hardware available at Ben's cycle. That is what I did. The VO stay attachments are clunky looking and on the front. cn contribute to toe overlap depending on the bike. It did on my Hilsen , so I switched over to the Berthoud stays.

On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 8:42:14 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:

I've used (up) about 3 pairs of Berthoud stainless steel fenders on my '03 Riv (3d time lucky) and I used another pair on another Rivendell. Oddly, they dent more easily than the 2 pairs of hammered Honjos I've used; whether this be the aluminum or the texture. Too bad no one carries Honjo 559 X 50s -- wait, I just learned that Soma carries 26" (as opposed to 650B) X 45 and X 50 in a few styles, but at astronomical prices: $150 and $167 caught my eye before I quickly shut the window. Next year, perhaps.

Anyway, at least the "hammered" Honjos are more dent resistant than the plain SS Berthouds and more so too than plain VO aluminum fenders, at least of a few years ago. 

Me, if I could afford it, or if I'd not just used up 3 pairs trying to get this bike right, I'd choose one of the Honjos. But the Berthouds are still very nice, and not much heavier -- I seem to recall that ~50 mm 26" and 650B fenders in SKS plastic with steel hardware were 2 lb, Berthoud stainless with alum hardware at 1.5 lb, and the 26 X 50 Honjo hammereds at 1 lb more or less even.

On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 3:57 PM, Edwin W <dween...@hotmail.com> wrote:

I am eventually going to get around to putting bigger fenders on my Appaloosa, and was looking at VO's 700x63 and Berthoud's 700x60 from Peter White. 

Any experience or differences? It looks like the Berthoud's are predrilled in the same way, for the stays, so you have to add a hole for a rack attachment up front and bridge in the rear. I like my 700x50s from VO now, but I always trust Peter White's choices in his offerings...

Then when I wear out my Barlow Pass tires I can move up to Snoqualmie Pass or their 700x50 offerings when they come out (fictional thus far,don't get too excited).

Appreciate any thoughts or experiences,

Edwin

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[Tony DeFilippo]

I've used both on different bikes, the berthoud feel amazing and install easy. I find them very easy to make completely silent and they stay that way. The VO's are more fiddly but I suppose are lighter.

It's not a contest for me, berthoud all the way. Mine took powdercoating matching my Saluki very well to I can add.

Tony

[Austin ^]

I personally like the easier to install fender stays of the Berthoud fenders. With the VO it seems like if you don't get the curve of the stay centered in the two darumas (or whatever they are) just right the fender line is always a little wonky. I've got Berthoud 700x50 on my hillborne and was running 700x60 on my cheviot. Great fenders, with space to route wiring for the lights if that's your thing. 

[Michael Hechmer]

Having used Bertoud's, VO's and Honjos, my answer is it depends on the bike and your wallet.  The Bertouds have a slight weight penalty but are very stiff and therefore ideal for bad roads and trails.  The VO's are a bit lighter and maybe more appropriate for a rondenee or go fast set up.  If I owned something showy and felt a little flush that momth, I'd buy the Honjos.  That said I had a pair of Honjos on my Ram, which was my main bike, and they lasted seven or eight years.  Also the sizes are not the same and sometimes one or another is a better fit.

Michael

[David Banzer]

Brian,
Did the pre-dilled holes for the stays on the VO fenders line up with the Berthoud stays? Curious which VO fenders you used as I'm looking to do the same with some VO Zeppelin fenders I'll be installing.
David
Chicago

[Philip Kim]

I've had both, returned bertroud fenders when I got my VO fenders in. Not an indictment on Bertroud fenders, just how much VO fenders' quality were above my expectations and were cheaper. Looking now, I think VO bumped up their price since I last checked three years ago, so Bertrouds are only a few bucks more expensive. I remember the Bertroud's being heavier, but not by much.

I would personally go VO fenders just because it's slightly bigger, probably a bit lighter. Their aluminum fenders are pretty durable.

On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 5:57:21 PM UTC-4, Edwin W wrote:

[LBleriot]

I second the recommendation of using VO fenders (for lightness and drilled bridge holes) with Berthoud stays (for better and less fiddly fit).

On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 5:57:21 PM UTC-4, Edwin W wrote:

[Minh]

I own all three (though my Honjo's are on the shelf), the toe-overlap on the fronts are real with the VO.  when i got mine the VO were only single eye drilled (at one point i think they were undrilled) so swapping in the Berthoud stays meant drilling your own holes.  Now that the VO are pre-drilled with 2 holes, not sure if they holes would line up, does anyone have experience doing this exact combo?

I feel like the berthoud are heavier duty, seem to rattle less (but that could be a function of my poor install skills), but i can't complain about the durability of the VO, even though i bump them into things all the time!  

Personally i'd go with whatever is most important to you, toe-overlap then berthoud, but if you want a certain look like hammered, or faceted etc, then VO.  Honjo's are great but man they are so crazy expensive!

On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 5:57:21 PM UTC-4, Edwin W wrote:

[Lungimsam]

I love my Honjos. But expensive.
Hammered.
They are getting a fuzzy white looking patina in them. Don't know what that is.

[Steve Palincsar]

Probably corrosion.  If it's just in spots - like where your sweaty sunscreened leg brushes against it when you turn the wheel sharply while standing at a light straddling the bike (as mine are plagued by) - the answer is Blue Magic.   If it's all over, evenly distributed making an attractive sort of matte finish (as is the case with my Kogswell P/R) I'd just leave them  and say they're reverting to the Lefol originals.

[Allingham II, Thomas J. (Retired Partner)]

JPW often uses VOs, which certainly is a relevant data point (to me, anyway).

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[Brian Campbell]

David, Not entirely. I used one existing hole and then drilled a second. It took some futzing (as it always does) to get a good fender line. If I had it to do over I would rather have an undrilled fender to start with. I used the 50mm VO Snakeskin on my Hilsen.

[Lungimsam]

This place was recommended to me. They have hardware that looks pretty good.

 https://sim.works/collections/fenders-simworks-by-honjo

[Ryan Ray]

I've had 2 sets of SKS fenders, one Honjos, one set of the Soma 650bs and one set of Stainless Berthoud's.

Only the Berthouds didn't make want to rip my own head off and toss it off a cliff.

- Ryan 

On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 2:57:21 PM UTC-7, Edwin W wrote:

[Edwin W]

Some very helpful observations. Thanks!! No concensus, which is helpful in and of itself.

Edwin

[Lungimsam]

Welp...I will say a shop owner told me that the vo hammereds break within a year at the mounting points. He said the non-hammereds are fine.

I have only used honjo hammereds so i cannot comment from personal use.

[Patrick Moore]

Honjo hammereds will break within a year or 18 months if you stress them by using the mounting points to shape them, as I did -- expensive lesson -- torque at the brake bridge; the fender cracked at the attachment point. I expect that the shop did the same thing.

On Sat, Oct 1, 2016 at 9:07 AM, Lungimsam <john1...@gmail.com> wrote:

Welp...I will say a shop owner told me that the vo hammereds break within a year at the mounting points. He said the non-hammereds are fine.

I have only used honjo hammereds so i cannot comment from personal use.

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[Steve Palincsar]

I myself have a set of Honjo hammered fenders I installed on my Kogswell P/R in 2006.  They're perfectly fine.  I have never used VO hammered, but in principle there's no difference: as Patrick says, you have to install the fenders without stress.  You can't pull them into line with the stays the way you'd do with plastic fenders.  You'll read that in every article out there on installing metal fenders.

[Brian Campbell]

Here is a picture of the Hilsen with VO fenders and Berthoud Stays:

 

[Lungimsam]

Is that a velo lumino tail light dyno?
If so, how do you like it?

[GAJett]

What size tires and what fender width are you running?  Rivendell put on the Schwalbe Marathon 650b x 42's when they built my AHH.  Rivbike shows these have an actual 37 mm width.  Wanting to know what fender width I can use and/or if I can go with a Compass 42 (Babyshoe Pass) or would need to stay with the 38 (Loup Loup Pass).
Cheers,
GAJett

[Brian Campbell]

Very much. Works well, looks great and I know the owner, so I was an "early adopter". He is a super nice guy and I wanted to support him. He makes really nice, thoughtful stuff.

[Brian Campbell]

My AHH is running 700 X 38 Compass Barlow PAas EL tires. The fenders are 50mm VO Snakeskin(?). They required very little modification to fit. A little at the chain stays and other than that, they bolted right on.

[John Hawrylak]

Brain

Did you use a durama bolt/screw to attach the fender to the front fork or just the forward stay?

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

On Saturday, October 1, 2016 at 11:40:17 AM UTC-4, Brian Campbell wrote:

[Brian Campbell]

John,

I used both.

[GAJett]

Many thanks. This is very helpful.
Cheers,
GAJett

[Max]

For those who tried multiple models of fenders: Which yield the greatest tire clearance for a given outer fender diameter? Specifically, I'm looking for something that does better than the Honjos I'm now running – fluted, clearing 37 mm tires fine, but not 40/42 mm that I'd like to try. It's clear I could use non-fluted type of fender, but what about the strut-fender attachment bolts that eat up 5+ mm on the inside surface? 

TIA! 

- Max