Lights for a Schmidt SON28?

[Liesl]

Hi all,

Those Riv folks are the best; after my RivChica Warrior escapade, I
got a card signed by everyone at Riv and an "Award for Kindness and
Bravery!" in the form of a generous gift certificate. Made me grin
from ear-to-ear for days. Anyway, my certificate is being applied
toward (and making possible) a 650B Velocity Synergy front wheel with
a Schmidt SON28 dyno hub. My intention is to be able to swap both it
and a light back an forth between the Saluki and the ProtoBleriot. So
I'm looking for recommendations on lights.

I've read and reread the material on the Peter White site, and am
looking at the Supernova E3 and the Schmidt Edelux, or the B&M Lumotec
IQ Fly. Considerations & riding style: the vast majority of my
riding is urban commuting, 10 miles each way. I ride all 4 seasons
and here in Minnesota, winter lighting is really important--I want a
bright light. I do not do any crazy fast descents. (I do not do any
crazy fast, period--except when chasing bike burglars.) I have a
Nitto Mini Front on the Saluki, and the Saluki has fork blade braze-
ons. The Proto has no braze-ons and is rack-free. I am imagining
having a handlebar mount (both have m'bars) so the light can go back
and forth. Curious about wiring set-ups that can move back and forth
within 5 minutes or less. Not thinking of dyno-run tailights. Am
thinking of LED's.

Okay! Fire away with opinions and experience! And thanks in advance
for your help.

liesl

[PATRICK MOORE]

IQ Cyo: half the price of the Edeluxe with (as far as I can tell) 100%
of the light, tho' without the nice aluminum case and better than at
least the older Flys, which are still decent. (I have all three.)

FWIW, unless you are interested in top o' the line, a Shimano dynohub
at almost 2/3 cheaper and with 9/10 of the function of the SON is also
a better value: just have the shop adjust and lube the bearings before
use.

The principal benefit of Edeluxe, Fly, Cyo are that they have well
designed reflectors that put the light where it ought to go instead of
just shoving it out anyhow. I know from experience that pure lumens (I
used a HiD light for a while) don't necessarily give better
illumination. But the Supernova can be seen at ABQ's blazing full noon
sunlight in June at a 1 mile altitude from 1/4 mile away -- I've seen
one oncoming on our bike path. (In case you don't know from high
desert sun, put it this way: it makes smog-free, West LA light look
like twilight.) It must be like a 100W bulb at night.

These lights aren't QR, but I have at home a quick attach fork leg
devise that screws onto a plastic strap that could be used for quick
changes. (Not offering to sell, just pointing out the possiblity.)

Speaking of lights: isn't this Kool?
https://picasaweb.google.com/BERTIN753/BIKESMISCELLANEA#5647507277165651586

One-piece bottle dyno-cum-LED lamp with blinkie standlight with remote
on/off lever that attaches to bar. Too bad it's all plastic.

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[davidg]

Hello,

I have to agree re: the IQ CYO. I used the N plus variant for two very
cold, very dark Northern Wyoming winters. The N plus put a lot of
light on the road. As far as quick release. Velo-orange sells a mount
that replaces the nut on your hub quick release. So the light would
move with the wheel between bikes if one were so inclined.

http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/accessories/lighting/dynamo/low-down-light-mount-type-ii.html

I used that mount for the aforementioned two winters. I'm down to one
bike and am using the rack mount as an attachment point, so I would be
willing to part with it.
Just a thought. Good luck with your wheel/light/mount journey.

On Sep 5, 12:10 pm, PATRICK MOORE <bertin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> IQ Cyo: half the price of the Edeluxe with (as far as I can tell) 100%
> of the light, tho' without the nice aluminum case and better than at
> least the older Flys, which are still decent. (I have all three.)
>
> FWIW, unless you are interested in top o' the line, a Shimano dynohub
> at almost 2/3 cheaper and with 9/10 of the function of the SON is also
> a better value: just have the shop adjust and lube the bearings before
> use.
>
> The principal benefit of Edeluxe, Fly, Cyo are that they have well
> designed reflectors that put the light where it ought to go instead of
> just shoving it out anyhow. I know from experience that pure lumens (I
> used a HiD light for a while) don't necessarily give better
> illumination. But the Supernova can be seen at ABQ's blazing full noon
> sunlight in June at a 1 mile altitude from 1/4 mile away -- I've seen
> one oncoming on our bike path. (In case you don't know from high
> desert sun, put it this way: it makes smog-free, West LA light look
> like twilight.) It must be like a 100W bulb at night.
>
> These lights aren't QR, but I have at home a quick attach fork leg
> devise that screws onto a plastic strap that could be used for quick
> changes. (Not offering to sell, just pointing out the possiblity.)
>

> Speaking of lights: isn't this Kool?https://picasaweb.google.com/BERTIN753/BIKESMISCELLANEA#5647507277165...

> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

[Scott G.]

Here is a Cyo using a B&M handle bar mount and the Velo Orange skewer mount gadget.
A little low but used it this way for a few months.

http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/v/sg8357/Scott-Goldsmith/Chris-Kvale-2005/Cyo1.jpg.html

[René Sterental]

Congratulations!!!

If you can afford it, get the Edelux. Here's a photo of mine on the Atlantis under the Nitto Mini/Platrack using the bracket sold by Rene Herse http://www.renehersestore.com/servlet/the-341/Light-Bracket-for-Edelux/Detail.

http://tinyurl.com/3oqgkqx

The light is great, the senso feature is wonderful even though it turns the light on even during the day when it's not sunny and bright (great for extra visibility) and its coverage is perfect. You won't be blinding pedestrians or cars.

René

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[Kelly Sleeper]

X2 on Edelux .. We have them on three of the bikes and love them.

Kelly

[EricP]

I have the E3 on my Sam Hillborne. A good wide light. Bright but
with lots of spill to the sides and up. One advantage, it is
available in a quick release handlebar mount. A co-worker has that on
one of her Rivendell bikes and has excellent results in winter.

Also have the Cyo on another bike. Personally prefer that light
pattern both in summer and winter. The Cyo is narrower and focused.
But the light seems to go where I want to see better. Unfortunately,
it does not have a good quick release mount, although am sure some
method could be devised.

Oh, and Patrick, for Minnesota winters, the SON is the better choice.
My wife is lucky in her Shimano dynohub has lasted a few years. Most
last two (or three at most). Moisture gets inside and they can't be
rebuilt. On the ones I've had, usually have to scrape down one of the
contacts once or twice a winter to get rid of corrosion from the
weather.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

[Dan Abelson]

On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 8:07 PM, EricP <eric...@aol.com> wrote:

Oh, and Patrick, for Minnesota winters, the SON is the better choice.
My wife is lucky in her Shimano dynohub has lasted a few years.  Most
last two (or three at most).  Moisture gets inside and they can't be
rebuilt.  On the ones I've had, usually have to scrape down one of the
contacts once or twice a winter to get rid of corrosion from the
weather.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

I agree that for Minnesota winters Shimanos are not up to the task.  My first Shimano lasted about 1.5 winters.  My current one has been through two winters (I now store the bike in the garage in the winter so there is less temperature change and less moisture), but I don't think that it will make it through this winter -- it is not quite right now.

When my current Shimano dies, I will probably just use my battery lights.  I have a short commute, I don't want to spend the cash on that bike for a SON and I am tired of buying a new Shimano every couple years.

Dan Abelson

St. Paul, MN

[Ginz]

Regarding the Edelux, Cyo R, and others, are these lights so bright
that runners, bikers and other commuter path users will hate me?! I
like the brightness on a gravel road, but in the city, I don't want to
annoy folks.

Thanks,
Ginz

[PATRICK MOORE]

I've read that Shimano dynohubs are too tight and too dry when new and
that proactive adjustment and lubing makes them live much longer. Was
the early death due to the winter or the initial bearing problem?

Dunno myself, that's just what I read in BQ; I have the shop repack
and adjust all new Shimanos that I buy.

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[PATRICK MOORE]

That's one of their benefits: the lights are designed to shine like
auto low beams: bright for illumination but not for oncomers' eyes.

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[EricP]

The E3 is not designed like a low beam. Just a round, bright light.
I would think that even on a handlebar, the light should not be overly
bothersome to other folks on a trail. It's not nearly as bright as
some 600 lumen lights out there. (There is a local commuter who uses
that on the road and it totally blinds me.)

On the lubrication of the Shimano - don't believe it's an easy job to
pre-lubricate the dynohub as there are wires inside that can easily
break with removal. My shop mechanic doesn't like messing with them.
The newer Alfine hubs are supposedly better.

My wife's Shimano dynohub is dying slowly due to corrosion of the
terminal strips where the wires attach. Because of the grounding
circuit one gets quite corroded during winter. It might be possible
to solder on a new copper strip to keep things going. My scraping to
get to good copper has just about worn through the strip in about 4
years.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

On Sep 5, 10:05 pm, PATRICK MOORE <bertin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> That's one of their benefits: the lights are designed to shine like
> auto low beams: bright for illumination but not for oncomers' eyes.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 8:27 PM, Ginz <theg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Regarding the Edelux, Cyo R, and others, are these lights so bright
> > that runners, bikers and other commuter path users will hate me?!  I
> > like the brightness on a gravel road, but in the city, I don't want to
> > annoy folks.
>
> > Thanks,
> > Ginz
>
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[Minh]

Liesl,

Are you going to swap the dyno wheel between bikes as well? If so i
think Scott G's arrangement is the easiest to move back and forth,
other-wise you'll need to have disconnects at both ends for the wiring
on each bike.

I've got a number of the mounts mentioned here, the VO QR end mount, a
Gino's Mount for a Nitto Rack and fork mount which i use on the front
of my rack. i think the light down low is the most useful for me to
illuminate the ground, but the light at the rack level is better for
me to be seen. Sometimes i'll add a battery powered light as a
flasher. I don't like the handlebar mounts as i always have things on
the front of the bike which would block the light.

I'm using a simple (and cheap) DLumotec LED light at the moment, been
thinking about an edelux, i might pull the trigger this winter when
i'm redoing the front-end on my bike.

[Liesl]

> Are you going to swap the dyno wheel between bikes as well?  If so i
> think Scott G's arrangement is the easiest to move back and forth,
> other-wise you'll need to have disconnects at both ends for the wiring
> on each bike.

Yes, my hope is that both the dyno wheel and the light will be going
back and forth to some extent. The E3, though it would cost a fortune,
could be set up nicely for swapping using their new handlebar mount
and possibly connectors to leave the wiring in place. But it would
would be heavy and pricey.

On positioning, I have liked having a bright light on the bars and
even up on my helmet; my guess is that a light down low on an axle
could be a problem in snow. Minh and Scott, have you used this set up
in snow? As in deep snow banks on the sides of streets and at
corners?

Still weighing pros and cons, and pros and cons against costs ... all
the perspectives and photos in this thread are extraordinarily
helpful, especially my fellow winter riders and twin cities rivsters.
Thank you! More thoughts welcomed!

-liesl
minneapolis

[Ginz]

Lot's a good, pratical user experience in this thread!

Regarding Cyo, how does it hold up under bucketing rain? Does it take
on water? I've read some concerns about it not being as tight as the
Edelux...

[charlie]

You need to use the anti-corrosion grease made for electrical
connections available at your friendly NAPA auto parts store. This
will cut down on the problem significantly when you get a new
connection piece. Is there enough of the old connection to lead solder
a new tab that you can hand fabricate?

[charlie]

I would set up one bike for the generator lighting for now and not
touch it. Get another light system for the other bike or use it in
warmer weather. When you start connecting and disconnecting routinely
you are asking for problems IMHO.

[Thomas Lynn Skean]

I think battery lighting is the right way to go if you're planning on switching bikes periodically. My Ixon IQ is wonderful in Chicago winters and between Paul's Gino mount and Peter White's mounting options you can put it lots of places to accommodate lots of configurations.

That said, everything I've read tells me if I ever "go dynamo" it'll be SON/Edelux, price be damned. I'll just save up. Those seem to be the ones that just work, even in harsh environs. And it'd have to "just work" to be better than my current battery setup.

Yours,
Thomas Lynn Skean

[Scott G.]

I used the Cyo in moderate rain with no problem, haven't tried it in the snow.
The skewer end mount setup makes the wheel, light and mount one piece,
easy to move from bike to bike, no wires to disconnect.

I used to used to setup a dedicated night bike for each winter, being able to
swap the light system easily let me ride the 'nice' bike occasionally during winter evenings.

note, the E3 Pro  is available with a spot beam or the Edelux style auto cutoff beam optic.

[Patrick in VT]

On Sep 5, 1:52 pm, Liesl <lchat...@smm.org> wrote:
> Curious about wiring set-ups that can move back and forth
> within 5 minutes or less.  Not thinking of dyno-run tailights.  Am
> thinking of LED's.

if you bounce back and forth between bikes a lot, I'd just get 2 IQ
flys and put one on each bike. that light is plenty bright for urban
commuting and then you're only dealing with a 30 second wheel change.

FWIW, I've used the edeluxe, the cyo, the fly - basically the same,
and i've never had issues running them in crappy Vermont winters. my
only comment is that the switch on the CYO isn't so hot - not the
easiest to operate with gloves and it gets a little gritty in really
sloppy weather. the supernovas are also nice lights (have a couple of
friends using those) - but for the extra coin, 2 lights will make life
easier.

[Kelly Sleeper]

I warn that I am biased ... the dyno's have spoiled me and between the SON28 and the Edelux I have found bliss.  I've had  high powered battery lights and no matter how great and bright they may be I had to remember to charge them.  To get the battery to do something.. like get them out of the bag and mount them when it got dark.  (never bothered to permanently mount any of my battery powered lights)  Then came the Edelux on my AHH followed by the E3 Triple on the Bombadil.  I sold the E3 triple on the Bombadil because I liked the light pattern of the Edulux better and missed the sensor.  A light that just was on was beyond just nice it was liberating.   

I know have three of them and contemplating putting one on my recently acquired Quickbeam.  The second ride out on the QB I was in a parking lot eating pizza and had to leave because it was getting dark.. I thought right or wrong on the way home.. this bike is useless without a good light.  

Spoiled yes.. I have a minewt or two in the garage and can't find the charging cable (though I know it's here)    

I'm two lazy and unorganized for battery ... I don't want to go turn on the light or remember to turn it off again.  

OOPs.. i ranted yet again.. sorry.. :) (ok sorry may be a stretch)

Kelly

[Jude]

> Regarding Cyo, how does it hold up under bucketing rain? Does it take
> on water? I've read some concerns about it not being as tight as the
> Edelux...

I mounted the first Cyo on the forward tab of a Nitto M12 rack. This
placed the light directly in the spray of the tire. I kept thinking
"I need to move that light or extend the fender". After about a year
it finally failed in a downpour. I tried letting it dry for a week
but that didn't help. Luckily it was still under warranty, Peter
White replaced it. I was honest about the conditions and the
placement.

After that I followed Bicycle Quarterly's advice. The new light is
mounted under the rack to the side. Rene Herse sells a bracket at a
fair price though one could easily make their own. Great placement
and keeps the light out of the spray.
http://www.renehersestore.com/servlet/the-341/Light-Bracket-for-Edelux/Detail

[Khalid Mateen]

Do you think it is safe to mount a Edelux on a front fender for a touring bicycle?  Assuming that is a metal fender and not plastic.  Sorry to high jack this post but it is question that I have been asking myself.

 

 

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[Steve Palincsar]

On Wed, 2011-09-07 at 10:38 -0400, Khalid Mateen wrote:
> Do you think it is safe to mount a Edelux on a front fender for a
> touring bicycle? Assuming that is a metal fender and not plastic.
> Sorry to high jack this post but it is question that I have been
> asking myself.

Mitch Pryor likes that position. You can see several set up that way on
his flickr site http://www.flickr.com/photos/mapcycles/
and in the MAP Randonneur Project Owners Group, such as this one
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mapcycles/5583366143/in/pool-1759586@N22

He has a mount made for that lamp and that location that he says will be
commercially available soon, shown here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mapcycles/6055950533/in/photostream

However the BQ test of the MAP had a photo where a light in that
location had been misaligned by the handlebar bag hitting it after a
stretch on a rough gravel road. That can't happen with a rack mount.

[PATRICK MOORE]

I've thought of that and would say "no" unless your fender has a
second pair of struts supporting the forward end or unless it is
secured to the underside of a rack; and even in those cases, only with
metal fenders. I've seen very light, old lamps that an unsupported
metal fender might support long term without damage, but the Edeluxe
is quite a bit heavier than these, as are also the Cyos and the Fly.

Note that I have in mind Berthoud ss fenders as well as Honjo and VO
aluminum ones.

--

[EricP]

I have my E3 mounted forward like that on my Hillborne. It can get a
bit dirty. Might switch things around in the future. Although the
Sam isn't often out in winter. However, mounting on the front of the
Nitto rack might be better for me.

For the Cyo, haven't found problems with the switch. Although my
tendency is to keep it on at all times. Especially now that I have a
tail light hooked up. The light is on the fork crown above a fender,
so is away from some of the elements.

If one were to go with two lights, the Fly might be a good choice.
Or, if looking to save money, the Lyt might be an option. Installed
one on my wife's bike. It has a good beam pattern and she likes it
better than the Lumotech Oval which it replaced.

Khalid - I personally don't think mounting a light on the front fender
would work. Too much vibration. A second strut in front of the light
might help. Then I could see it being possible.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

> and keeps the light out of the spray.http://www.renehersestore.com/servlet/the-341/Light-Bracket-for-Edelu...

[PATRICK MOORE]

Aren't they liberating? I too was a holdout for years until I tried
the latest generation of German LED lights. Now I've got dynamos on
all my bikes except my gofast -- 1 SON 20R + Edeluxe, Riv, 1 DH3N72
(actually two of these for the two wheelsets, fat and very fat) + Cyo
for the Fargo, 1 BB dynamo + Cyo for the Herse and one or two other
bottle setups with various lamps for beater grocery getter-types. For
the grocery trike It's is great to be able just to get on and pedal
for a last minute trip to the store: I ought to rig up a dyno tail
light on that one. I don't mind switching on batter rear lights for
the other bikes since the batteries last for at least a couple of
months.

I do have battery backups, a Knog or Frog on the trike, shortly a head
mounted Flea or somesuch for the others, that I carry in a pouch with
ankle and Sam Browne reflectors as part of my nighttime kit, but for
the short run, last minute errand vehicle I want full automation, so
to speak.

On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 10:29 AM, Kelly Sleeper <tksl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I warn that I am biased ... the dyno's have spoiled me and between the
> SON28 and the Edelux I have found bliss.  I've had  high powered battery
> lights and no matter how great and bright they may be I had to remember to
> charge them.  To get the battery to do something.. like get them out of the
> bag and mount them when it got dark.  (never bothered to permanently mount
> any of my battery powered lights)  Then came the Edelux on my AHH followed
> by the E3 Triple on the Bombadil.  I sold the E3 triple on the Bombadil
> because I liked the light pattern of the Edulux better and missed the
> sensor.  A light that just was on was beyond just nice it was liberating.
> I know have three of them and contemplating putting one on my recently
> acquired Quickbeam.  The second ride out on the QB I was in a parking lot
> eating pizza and had to leave because it was getting dark.. I thought right
> or wrong on the way home.. this bike is useless without a good light.
> Spoiled yes.. I have a minewt or two in the garage and can't find the
> charging cable (though I know it's here)
> I'm two lazy and unorganized for battery ... I don't want to go turn on
> the light or remember to turn it off again.
> OOPs.. i ranted yet again.. sorry.. :) (ok sorry may be a stretch)
> Kelly

--

[PATRICK MOORE]

Eric: will you share with us your rear light wiring strategy? Thanks.

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[Glenn Ammons]

On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Steve Palincsar <pali...@his.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 2011-09-07 at 10:38 -0400, Khalid Mateen wrote:
>> Do you think it is safe to mount a Edelux on a front fender for a
>> touring bicycle?  Assuming that is a metal fender and not plastic.
>> Sorry to high jack this post but it is question that I have been
>> asking myself.
>
> Mitch Pryor likes that position.  You can see several set up that way on
> his flickr site  http://www.flickr.com/photos/mapcycles/
> and in the MAP Randonneur Project Owners Group, such as this one
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/mapcycles/5583366143/in/pool-1759586@N22
>
> He has a mount made for that lamp and that location that he says will be
> commercially available soon, shown here
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/mapcycles/6055950533/in/photostream

Ooh. That's nice! I make my own fender mounts by bending a strip of
stainless steel into a U, but Mitch's mount is way nicer (and, if my
time counts for anything, cheaper).

Here's a picture of my setup (the light is now an eDelux):

https://picasaweb.google.com/107305917565128209357/VeloOrangeCyclotouriste#5180637123092075842

I do use an extra fender stay for support. On the bike I'm assembling
now, I used a Honjo R-clip to attach the light mount to both the
fender and the extra stay, which should be even more durable. The one
above has lasted four years, though, so it's not bad.

--glenn
West Chester, PA, USA

[Ediblestarfish]

I currently use a Philips LED SafeRide Synamo light I got from Bike24.com

http://www.bike24.net/p219881.html

I have a review and comparison of it between an IQ CYO-RT on the candlepower forums.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?317543-Quick-notes-on-Philips-SafeRide-vs.-B-amp-M-IQ-CYO-RT

[EricP]

Patrick,

On the bike with the rear wired tail light, just ran the wire across
the rack held down with zip ties, then a few wraps around one of the
rack stays, along the top tube (again held with zip ties), to the
brake cable housing, then down parallel to the bike computer wire to
the light. At that point, the wires were soldered together and
covered in shrink wrap.

Very basic, but should keep the tail light wires away from sludge and
crud in winter. It's a non-Rivendell (Surly LHT) with Tubus rear rack
and the B&M Toplight Line Plus bolted to the rear rack.

Have not come up with a satisfactory wiring system for the E3 and
corresponding tail light on the Sam Hillborne. The previous wiring
actually caused the headlight to fail. Admit to a bit of fear of
trying it again. Additionally, don't like the Supernova tail light as
I prefer something with a reflector. But no other tail light is
compatible with the E3.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

[PATRICK MOORE]

Thanks, Eric. I'm thinking of converting at least two bikes to dyno
powered tail lamps and any wiring info is useful.

'Nother question: can you use the E3 tail light with, say an Edeluxe or Cyo?

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Not according to Peter White. He says you can only use Supernovas with other Supernovas: "Supernova lights are not compatible with other brands of lights. You can't mix and match Supernova headlights with other brands of taillight, and you can't use Supernova taillights with other brands of headlight. Supernova lights come with tough wiring for the taillight that is hard wired. They do not use the same metric connectors as used by Busch & Müller, Wilfried Schmidt and Spanninga."

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[PATRICK MOORE]

Oh well; wonder if it's just the connectors. I like the small,
compact, easy-mount design of the E3 taillight. I may try a hack --
can't see why a very low power LED tail would not work with a typical
LED 3 w headlight. Thanks for the PJW text.

[Thomas Lynn Skean]

Interesting... it also seems that Philips has a simlar, slightly brighter battery light which looks to compete with the Ixon IQ (i.e. 4AA rechargeables, in-situ charging). One distinguishing charactersitic is that it uses a USB interface for charging (i.e. it comes with a wall-wart charger but the connector at the light is USB format and it can be charged from a USB port). I wonder how long reasonable AA batteries would last at each of its settings, which Philips says are 80lux/20lux?

 

Though I'm happy with my Ixon IQ lights right now, it is nice to know that alternatives exist and may even be better.

 

And, of course, a silver light would be nicer than a black one... hmmm.... :)

 

Yours,

Thomas Lynn Skean

 

[PATRICK MOORE]

In this connection, does anyone know:

1. If the Blackburn Flea can be charged with the wall-to-usb adaptor
used for the iPhone cable?

2. How long the Flea runs on one charge? -- I've seen 3 and 5 hours.

3. How long the Flea holds it charge when fully charged and left unused?

Thanks.