MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Jeremy Till]

This might be a stretch, but hey, what's the fun in following a guru if you can't spend hours parsing his words and interpreting them?  I think there might be a hint towards an upcoming trail-oriented Riv (or update to an existing Riv) hidden in this passage from Grant's post yesterday: 

In mountain bike racing and just riding, it's gone the other way. The early guys were riding unsuitably low-tech bikes, then bikes reached a basic good level of appropriate technology in the late '80s, and now they've borrowed as much as possible—for now—from cars and motorcycles. There are reactions to it the other way, with one-speed mountain bikes, but those are fading fast because...one gear is too limiting for varied terrain. There's no restraint at that end, and we're going to show 'em all what-for sometime late this year, if we can pull it off.

I wonder what it could be...the before-hinted plus-tire Hunqapillar?  Bringing back the Bombadil (probably can't be done under the LOTR gag order)?  Some other new trail-oriented rig?

Honestly, I'm pretty satisfied with my Jones-barred Clem as my MTB (well...a threadless fork would be nice), so I'm not anxiously awaiting anything, but it would be interesting to see what they come up with.  

Let the speculation begin!     

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

I also noticed that hint, but wasn't quite certain how to interpret it.  On one hand it made me wonder whether a fatter tired single speeder is in the pipeline (Hunqabeam!) but then I read it again and determined my own selfish desires were too heavily influencing that initial interpretation.  Curiouser and curiouser!

Brian Cole

Lawrenceville, NJ

[sameness]

Speaking of possible hints, I'll just leave this one here:

Do I spy a MIT AHH?

Jeff Hagedorn

Los Angeles, CA USA

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

whoa, good eye, Jeff!

[Joe Bernard]

I predict a plus-tire MIT Hunqa with disc brakes because I want one and will buy it. Yeah!

[iamkeith]

Whoa, hadn't read this yet, but seems like more than a 'hint.' I've been telling myself that with a pending purchase of the new Atlantis, I would own all the Rivendells (if not bikes) that I'd ever need. But that assumed "making due" with my too-big-frame but just-right-700c Clem. I think I'd better budget carefully and keep my discretionary bike spending in check until I hear what this is about.

[EasyRider]

My guess is a MIT 1x MB-1ish 27.5 plus Riv. A slightly higher bb. Grant has said that if you need bigger than 2 inch tire to get a pugsley and a dozen years the reader mentioned that bike favorably. Hard to imagine a Riv fatbike though ... discs and all.

[Drw]

I spoke to will maybe a year ago, and he said the plus hunq was happening but it’d be over a year before anything happened for real. Its about that time now and then you factor in inevitable delays.... my money is on plus hunq.

Which I think is a great, great idea.

[Bill Eberle in Columbus, Ohio]

What??? A 27.5+ Hunqadiscer (or Diacapillar)? Here, take my money 💰💰💰.

[Joe Bernard]

Don't get your hopes up, Bill. I'm trying to talk Grant into it (via this forum), but I'm not sure I'm the most convincing salesman ("Oh good, Joe has another idea!).

I need to get my new Crust Lightning Bolt over there and send him down the road on it: "These tires, these brakes, but it looks and rides like a Rivendell. Build it and they will come." :-)

[Clayton]

 If this bike is what I hope it is, a rigid single ring Hunqua plus tired, disc braked bikepacker, (not a fat bike), I am going to have to rethink my budget. I will have to buy one. Exciting news!  

The Hunquapiller  is the perfect name. Fat feet!  

Thanks Grant!!! 

(Counting my change to buy wheels and components, while giggling with joy) 

Clayton 

DirtDanceDesigns 

[Jeremy Till]

More hints today! 

We were all set to name the new mtn bike Elephantus--a rebound name after we'd finally opted out of Hunqapillar to avoid confusion...and it turns out there is an Elephant brand bike, so we gotta just let him be with that. So now it's down to Sir Barney Johnston and H. "Larry" Gomez. Maybe "Sir" Barney Johnston. I don't know how I feel about the quotes. It adds a nice twist, don't you think?

I'm guessing plus tires, based on the original Elephantus name.   

[Bill Lindsay]

The New Mountain Bike.  APPROVE.

BL in EC

[Chris Lampe 2]

This bike has me more excited and curious than any new Riv since I started following in 2011.  

No offense to Grant & Co., but I really hope they can come up with a better name.   

[Tim Butterfield]

Maybe it has a smooth ride instead of smooth talk and they could add the quotes and an 'L' to it and end with an 'e'.  "Sir" Blarney Johnstone.

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 3:53 PM, 'Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

This bike has me more excited and curious than any new Riv since I started following in 2011.  

No offense to Grant & Co., but I really hope they can come up with a better name.   

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Clayton]

 Atlantis= bitchin!   Hunquapillar= groovy!   Rodeo= rad!  People names.......ugh. I would rather ride "Bikey Mcbikeface".  

"Gaiavelo" is my vote.  I know......I don't have a vote, but I like to try... :)

Clayton

DirtDance

[sameness]

Harry Elefante, Mt.B

[Eric Floden]

Jack Keefe

EricF

Gatineau Hills

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.

[Michael Morrissey]

Sir Barney Johnston just kind of sounds close to Bonnie Prince Billy.

[Mark in Beacon]

RePachyderm

[Drw]

I also profoundly hate the name options and am profoundly excited to see this bike.

[Joe Bernard]

Hey Grant, what's the scoop with the names? As long as I've been following this Riv thing - that would be as long as it's been a thing - I've never quite understood why production Rivendells are named with the model name on the downtube like it's the name of the company.

[Deacon Patrick]

M. A. Moth, P.K.D.M.

[Eamon Nordquist]

Mastodon.

You're welcome,
Eamon in Seattle

[Mike Williams]

RePachyderm is so good!!!

Sent from my iPhone

--

[Timothy Hurley]

RePachyderm is really good.

Does a plus bike have to have disc brakes? Does anyone even make plus rims for rim brakes?

I’m very excited for this bike, disc or canti.

[Eric Daume]

Rivendells (production and then custom) have always had the Riv name on the downtube. The early production Taiwan bikes got their model name on the downtube to separate them from the MUSA Rivs.

Eric
Who is less bothered by the human name models than he used to be

On 9:07PM, Thu, May 3, 2018 Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey Grant, what's the scoop with the names? As long as I've been following this Riv thing - that would be as long as it's been a thing - I've never quite understood why production Rivendells are named with the model name on the downtube like it's the name of the company.

[Jacob]

https://www.rivbike.com/pages/graphics

A few answers to a few questions concerning the decals.

[Lum Gim Fong]

“Sir” is decidedly un-American. Smacks of knighthoods and feudal Europe.

I don’t like the human names either. But if we are gonna do human names,
I vote for “Bubbie Hurwitz”.

[Lum Gim Fong]

or Barry Kalmen

[Lum Gim Fong]

Non-human names:

Rivendell Juggernaut

If that is too serious sounding then:

Alfalfa Banjo

[James Warren]

Speaking of that artist and such bikes...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VR4KaDeAuI&t=8s

[Joe Bunik]

Jacquieloupe

[iamkeith]

Darn it. I so badly wanted a wooly mammoth on my headbadge, whether it was called hunquapillar or not. Can't even tell you how much - except to say that that my kids have been saving pennies so that when scientists in Russia finally clone one, I'll be able to travel to see it.

(BTW, I think that 'hunquapillar' was actually some person's name too - taken from a mailbox on the side of a rural road and deliberately misspelled. )

Rocky mountain used to have a norba bike in the 90's called the "blizzard." Now the same name is used for a fat bike. So what?

[Philip Williamson]

“Brand or model names shouldn't sound like inside jokes thought up over beer & pizza.”
Oops.

Philip
Santa Rosa, CA

[Joe Bernard]

I guess my name for the new bike, Rockbobber, is outta the question then..

[DarinM]

I want to see a bison namesake’d Riv, an MTB would be great!

Darin in eastern WA

[Bill Lindsay]

Show me a bicycle owner incapable of liking his bicycle because of its name and I'll show you a "collector" not a "cyclist".  Show me somebody fretting over a name that doesn't exist over a bike that doesn't exist and that they haven't purchased, and I'll show you a habitual handwringer. 

BL in EC

[phil k]

Or they could be a Riv fan, and like speculating.

[Surlyprof]

I’ve been in the market for a mountain bike for a while. I guess my wife might be pleased that I may have to wait a while longer.

Very exciting news!

John

[lconley]

I have always been a fan of the Trilobites on the Hunqapillar head badge. How about calling it the Trilobyte (the "byte" is intentional) and the head badge could be one big Trilobite. Trilobyte does obey the three syllable rule.

Laing

cocoa FL

[Patrick Moore]

Oliphant. Done.

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Jeremy Till <jerem...@gmail.com> wrote:

More hints today! 

We were all set to name the new mtn bike Elephantus--a rebound name after we'd finally opted out of Hunqapillar to avoid confusion...and it turns out there is an Elephant brand bike, so we gotta just let him be with that. So now it's down to Sir Barney Johnston and H. "Larry" Gomez. Maybe "Sir" Barney Johnston. I don't know how I feel about the quotes. It adds a nice twist, don't you think?

I'm guessing plus tires, based on the original Elephantus name.   

On Friday, April 27, 2018 at 12:24:19 PM UTC-7, Jeremy Till wrote:

This might be a stretch, but hey, what's the fun in following a guru if you can't spend hours parsing his words and interpreting them?  I think there might be a hint towards an upcoming trail-oriented Riv (or update to an existing Riv) hidden in this passage from Grant's post yesterday: 

In mountain bike racing and just riding, it's gone the other way. The early guys were riding unsuitably low-tech bikes, then bikes reached a basic good level of appropriate technology in the late '80s, and now they've borrowed as much as possible—for now—from cars and motorcycles. There are reactions to it the other way, with one-speed mountain bikes, but those are fading fast because...one gear is too limiting for varied terrain. There's no restraint at that end, and we're going to show 'em all what-for sometime late this year, if we can pull it off.

I wonder what it could be...the before-hinted plus-tire Hunqapillar?  Bringing back the Bombadil (probably can't be done under the LOTR gag order)?  Some other new trail-oriented rig?

Honestly, I'm pretty satisfied with my Jones-barred Clem as my MTB (well...a threadless fork would be nice), so I'm not anxiously awaiting anything, but it would be interesting to see what they come up with.  

Let the speculation begin!     

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.

Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.

By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.

Other professional writing services.

http://www.resumespecialties.com/

www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/

Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, New Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique

****************************************************************************************

Auditis an me ludit amabilis insania?

[Joe Bernard]

The naming ideas are fun, but we probably should remind ourselves Grant isn't looking for new ideas, he just threw up a couple he's interested in.

[Bill Lindsay]

Great point. Speculators speculate. Handwringers wring their hands. There's a big distinction between the two, and I did not mean to lump them together.

Speculating:

Given that the hints indicated some intent to differentiate from Hunqapillar, that tells me that they at least thought about calling it Hunqapillar (a made up name).  If they called it Hunqapillar, it would have had the Hunqapillar headbadge.  If they had called it Elephant, would it still have had the wooly mammoth badge?  maybe.  I don't know how long it takes or how expensive it is to make another badge.  That would be a new thing, having two model names associated with the same badge.  

More speculating: 

I wonder if this mountain will be 9/8" threadless, just like the tandem.  They have the headtube rings and the fork all designed.  My WAY OUT THERE speculation is that they re-use the Bushnell bottom bracket from the tandem, so we get vertical drop outs, disc brakes in back, and the ability to run single speed.  

BL in EC

[iamkeith]

In the spirit of speculation fun, here's my big guess:

I think the aspect that they need to "pull off" is getting someone to produce a 45mm wide rim brake rim.

Grant has multiple times lumped disc brakes together with motorcycle technology, so I think someone would be crazy to expect that to happen. And if it did happen, it would probably be cable only. Cause, zip ties? So people would complain about that.

The Joe Appaloosa fork crown deign seems like it would lend itself to widening pretty easily, doesn't it?

[Surlyprof]

If they went threadless and rear disc brakes, dare I speculate 2.5-2.8 clearances and potential for the blasphemous shock fork? (Not sure how I’d feel about that)

I more like imagining that Grant talked someone into making plus sized canti or v brakes.

John

[Surlyprof]

Doesn’t matter. So excited that I may finally get a full Riv purchase/build experience. Bought my Hillborne on CL.

John

[Garth]

I agree about if the frame had disc brakes it would contradict what was stated about already existing auto/moto tech.

I looked around and it seems there exists already 44mm rim brake plus tire rims, called Snowcats/Snow Cats . 44mm wide. They've been around since '93 ! 

http://616fab.com/wheel/snowcat-wheels/

https://arcticcycles.com/wp-content/uploads/Snow-Cat-Rims.pdf


So I have no idea what the "new" mtb could be either  The Bombadil at the time was the "new" mtb based on the 80's kinda design of mtb's .... so here we have another "new" based on the same 80's kinda idea ?   You got me !

The only Riv frame I have is a Bombadil and I ride it mostly on road as I have little place off to ride, but it is a wonderful mtn bikey as-is :)

[Joe Bernard]

Eh, Riv was canti over v-brakes back in the day, too..now it's v-brakes over discs. I'm holding out hope for cable discs over hydros ;-)

[Jeremy Till]

I actually wouldn't be surprised if a plus-tired Riv used canti brakes.  V-brakes have an absolute tire clearance limit based on their arm length, and I think most v-brakes, especially the Shimano ones that Rivendell uses, wouldn't be able to clear a 3-inch tire.  You may be able to do it with something like the long-arm v-brakes that are spec'ed on the rim brake Yuba Mundo cargo bikes, but you'd be pretty limited in your component choice.  Cantilever brakes have a bit more flexibility since you can adjust straddle length, especially if you can find those extra-wide straddle hangers that are intended to increase tire clearance.  Then, as others have pointed out, your only problem would be finding rims with brake tracks wide enough to properly fit a 3" tire.  

Back when Riv tested out the Surly Pugsley, they used cantilever brakes (and drop bars!) on their build, since the first-gen Pugsley frames and Large Marge rims were rim brake compatible.  

As to Bill's speculation about spec'ing a 9/8" threadless steerer a la the tandem, if that's the case, I'm going to be sorely tempted by this beast.    

[lconley]

When did "mountain bike" become synonymous with "fat bike"?. I missed that one.

Laing

Cocoa FL

[Bill Lindsay]

"mountain bike" is a superset of "fat bike".  A fat bike is an ambiguously defined subset of mountain bike.  Not every mountain bike is a fat bike.  For some, a moutain bike is plus sized at 2.75" - 3.75" tires and it's a fat bike at >4" tires. 

Every fat bike is a mountain bike.  Not every mountain bike is a fat bike.  Rivendell hinted at a "mountain bike", which means it may or may not be a "plus sized mountain bike" and may or may not be a "fat bike". 

BL set-theorizing in EC

[Eric Daume]

Making a special rim just to use rim brakes with plus tires seems, I dunno, deliberately retro. It would make your replacement parts very hard to find, for what advantage? I’ve never had to replace a disc caliper due to failure, while I have had to replace rims. 

The again, once down this path, what’s next? Thru axles?

Eric

--

[Joe Bernard]

Oh don't even get me started on thru axles! Now that I have one on the front of my Crust I wonder why we ever messed with those ridiculous quick-releases made slow by lawyer lips. Slide the wheel into the forks, slam the axle through, grab that wrench and thread it into the right-side fork end. Easy, safe, I like it 👍

[phil k]

How big of tires can clifhangers go up to? I'm seeing more 2.5 tires, but I think 2.8 and bigger would need disc brakes.

[lconley]

I would have started fat bikes at 3" instead of 4". My fat bike has skinny 3.8" Surly Black Floyds. Dare I call them the Compass of fat bike tires?

Laing

[tc]

I would wish for a suspension-corrected frame/fork design to enable the bike appeal to a much broader set of wallets.  Not all of us have packed paths to ride on.  Many of us have singletrack options that require some squish to be able to run at a decent speed that makes it fun and worthwhile and not rattling your teeth and bones.  While I sometimes enjoy the challenge of poking along a course like a 'trials' event, those times are few and far between.  Our options here are rooty, rocky, and often rut-filled.  With an inexpensive (even coil vs. air) shock up front, the ride instantly becomes not only tolerable, but really fun.  Surly and others seem to have realized this flexibility opens bikes up to a much larger ridership (e.g., Karate Monkey, Ogre, etc) by offering frame designs that allowed either rigid or squishy forks.    The thought of having a suspension-corrected Riv frame, which would of course be the best designed of all sus-corrected geo's ever, is really, really exciting.  Not holding my breath though.

Tom     

[Surlyprof]

In regards to the name, maybe "Sam Mountainborne"?  It'd be a country bike... if the country was Switzerland or Nepal!

John

(Who trusts Riv with the actual name)

On Thursday, May 3, 2018 at 3:53:10 PM UTC-7, Chris Lampe 2 wrote:

This bike has me more excited and curious than any new Riv since I started following in 2011.  

No offense to Grant & Co., but I really hope they can come up with a better name.   

[Eric Daume]

I would bet any amount you wish that Riv will not make a suspension corrected frame. Plenty of riders can ride as fast as they like on any terrain without suspension--look at Jones's bikes.

My guess is that a Riv mountain bike would end up somewhere in the Jones neighborhood: plus tire clearance, no suspension, longer rear center, shorter front center, but probably a more horizontal top tube, maybe a lug or two, and a crowned fork instead of a truss.

Then everyone can start holding their breath for a Nitto lugged dropper post.

Eric

On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 2:10 PM, tc <tdc...@gmail.com> wrote:

I would wish for a suspension-corrected frame/fork design to enable the bike appeal to a much broader set of wallets.  Not all of us have packed paths to ride on.  Many of us have singletrack options that require some squish to be able to run at a decent speed that makes it fun and worthwhile and not rattling your teeth and bones.  While I sometimes enjoy the challenge of poking along a course like a 'trials' event, those times are few and far between.  Our options here are rooty, rocky, and often rut-filled.  With an inexpensive (even coil vs. air) shock up front, the ride instantly becomes not only tolerable, but really fun.  Surly and others seem to have realized this flexibility opens bikes up to a much larger ridership (e.g., Karate Monkey, Ogre, etc) by offering frame designs that allowed either rigid or squishy forks.    The thought of having a suspension-corrected Riv frame, which would of course be the best designed of all sus-corrected geo's ever, is really, really exciting.  Not holding my breath though.

Tom     

--

[James Warren]

That is perfect. Almost as good as Bombadil, which is still the best ever.

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Moore
Sent: May 4, 2018 7:39 AM
To: rbw-owners-bunch
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

Oliphant. Done.

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Jeremy Till <jerem...@gmail.com> wrote:

More hints today! 

We were all set to name the new mtn bike Elephantus--a rebound name after we'd finally opted out of Hunqapillar to avoid confusion...and it turns out there is an Elephant brand bike, so we gotta just let him be with that. So now it's down to Sir Barney Johnston and H. "Larry" Gomez. Maybe "Sir" Barney Johnston. I don't know how I feel about the quotes. It adds a nice twist, don't you think?

I'm guessing plus tires, based on the original Elephantus name.   

On Friday, April 27, 2018 at 12:24:19 PM UTC-7, Jeremy Till wrote:

This might be a stretch, but hey, what's the fun in following a guru if you can't spend hours parsing his words and interpreting them?  I think there might be a hint towards an upcoming trail-oriented Riv (or update to an existing Riv) hidden in this passage from Grant's post yesterday: 

In mountain bike racing and just riding, it's gone the other way. The early guys were riding unsuitably low-tech bikes, then bikes reached a basic good level of appropriate technology in the late '80s, and now they've borrowed as much as possible—for now—from cars and motorcycles. There are reactions to it the other way, with one-speed mountain bikes, but those are fading fast because...one gear is too limiting for varied terrain. There's no restraint at that end, and we're going to show 'em all what-for sometime late this year, if we can pull it off.

I wonder what it could be...the before-hinted plus-tire Hunqapillar?  Bringing back the Bombadil (probably can't be done under the LOTR gag order)?  Some other new trail-oriented rig?

Honestly, I'm pretty satisfied with my Jones-barred Clem as my MTB (well...a threadless fork would be nice), so I'm not anxiously awaiting anything, but it would be interesting to see what they come up with.  

Let the speculation begin!     

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.

By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.

Other professional writing services.

http://www.resumespecialties.com/

www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/

Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, New Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique

****************************************************************************************

Auditis an me ludit amabilis insania?

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.

[Patrick Moore]

And lest the LOTR/JRRT copyright holders get snarky:

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/oliphant

Personally, I'd add at least 15 points out of 100 to the "buy it now!" side of the scale if the bike in question was named "Oliphant."

[Patrick Moore]

Well, at least, if it had disk brakes.

On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:

...

[James Warren]

Me too

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Moore
Sent: May 4, 2018 3:51 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

And lest the LOTR/JRRT copyright holders get snarky:

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/oliphant

Personally, I'd add at least 15 points out of 100 to the "buy it now!" side of the scale if the bike in question was named "Oliphant."

On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 4:43 PM, James Warren <jimcw...@earthlink.net> wrote:

That is perfect. Almost as good as Bombadil, which is still the best ever.

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Moore
Sent: May 4, 2018 7:39 AM
To: rbw-owners-bunch
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

Oliphant. Done.

[James Warren]

Not me too

Cantis all the way! Nothing drives me more nuts than disc brakes that make noise or rub.

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Moore
Sent: May 4, 2018 3:52 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

Well, at least, if it had disk brakes.

On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Personally, I'd add at least 15 points out of 100 to the "buy it now!" side of the scale if the bike in question was named "Oliphant."

[Patrick Moore]

Funny. I took a nice 21-mile, mostly (2/3 to 3/4) dirt ride along our acequia roads and paths on the Matthews this afternoon, and spent more than a few meditative minutes gazing dreamily down at the front caliper, with rotor skimming through it smoothly, noting the "light" gap on either side of the rotor, as it rotated. (Perhaps you need NM light to see this sort of detail in crisp definition.)

But I was mentally congratulating myself about the almost-utter problem-free nature of my Road BB7s; and these are not even the lastest and greatest among disk brakes. I ride in a lot of dust and sand, and the brakes do squeal if they are dusty; if I get them wet after they have gotten dusty, they will very, very gently rub ("whisk-whisk-whisk") until they dry. But for 98/100 of whatever units of use you choose, they are as forgettable as single pivot calipers, if not more so. (I've just been futzing with centering my nice, old Dura Ace single pivots on another bike -- and those squeal in cold weather despite all kinds of intevention.)

And, that squeal? That signifies to me that the pads are wearing down the rotors, and not my precious rims.

On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 4:56 PM, James Warren <jimcw...@earthlink.net> wrote:

Not me too

Cantis all the way! Nothing drives me more nuts than disc brakes that make noise or rub.

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Moore
Sent: May 4, 2018 3:52 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

Well, at least, if it had disk brakes.

On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Personally, I'd add at least 15 points out of 100 to the "buy it now!" side of the scale if the bike in question was named "Oliphant."

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.

Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.

Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[tc]

Eric said:  "...Plenty of riders can ride as fast as they like on any terrain without suspension--look at Jones's bikes."

That's great for them.  Notice what I said is:  "Many of us have singletrack options that require some squish to be able to run at a decent speed that makes it fun and worthwhile and not rattling your teeth and bones."   So, to each his own.  I'm confident that shocks will be around for many years to come because they were invented for a reason, and that reason makes sense to many people and enables them to enjoy what they could not otherwise.

Jones bikes look great.  Never rode one.  Many, many more shocked bikes out there compared to Jones.  Including sus-corrected ones that give folks an option, which was my point.

Regardless, looking fwd to whatever it is Riv has come up with!

Tom

[Scott Calhoun]

I vote for Jacqueloupe. It is funny, western, mythical (some claim...), and a chimera rather than a person. I can already picture the headtube badge. 

Scott Calhoun

Tucson, AZ USA

On Thursday, May 3, 2018 at 9:39:08 PM UTC-7, jbu...@gmail.com wrote:

Jacquieloupe

On 5/3/18, James Warren <jimcw...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Speaking of that artist and such bikes...
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VR4KaDeAuI&t=8s

>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Michael Morrissey <michaelg...@gmail.com>
>>Sent: May 3, 2018 5:50 PM
>>To: RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>
>>Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?
>>

>>Sir Barney Johnston just kind of sounds close to Bonnie Prince Billy.

>>
>>--
>>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an

>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.

>>Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>>For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an

> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.

[Garth]

On Friday, April 27, 2018 at 3:24:19 PM UTC-4, Jeremy Till wrote:
> This might be a stretch, but hey, what's the fun in following a guru if you can't spend hours parsing his words and interpreting them?  I think there might be a hint towards an upcoming trail-oriented Riv (or update to an existing Riv) hidden in this passage from Grant's post yesterday: 
>
> In mountain bike racing and just riding, it's gone the other way. The early guys were riding unsuitably low-tech bikes, then bikes reached a basic good level of appropriate technology in the late '80s, and now they've borrowed as much as possible—for now—from cars and motorcycles. There are reactions to it the other way, with one-speed mountain bikes, but those are fading fast because...one gear is too limiting for varied terrain. There's no restraint at that end, and we're going to show 'em all what-for sometime late this year, if we can pull it off.
>
>
> I wonder what it could be...the before-hinted plus-tire Hunqapillar?  Bringing back the Bombadil (probably can't be done under the LOTR gag order)?  Some other new trail-oriented rig?
>
>
> Honestly, I'm pretty satisfied with my Jones-barred Clem as my MTB (well...a threadless fork would be nice), so I'm not anxiously awaiting anything, but it would be interesting to see what they come up with.  
>
>
> Let the speculation begin!     

Hmmm .... call it the Harold D. Callahan ....... aka "Dirty Harry" .

☺☺☺Aahahahahahahahaahaahahahah ☺☺☺

Go ahead ..... make my day ......

[jack loudon]

I like 'Meander", or better, the archaic spelling, "Maeander".  The headbadge could show the sinuous path of its namesake, the Meander River in Turkey.  

Jack

[Christopher Murray]

I think it’d more likely be Jack O. Lope or Jack O’Lope. Or maybe Lopes or Lopez instead of Lope. That fits more with the current naming conventions.

Chris

[tc]

Grant's BLAHG for today (11 June 2018) links to a (very good) radio interview he did.  During that interview, he confirmed a non-disc, non-squish MTB is in the works.  As for other attributes the bike may or may not have, I don't remember any that were mentioned ... though it *might* have longish chainstays ... I'm not sure I heard that part correctly, though.  To be available sometime around Jan or Feb 2019.  Prototypes might be available in a couple of months.

Tom

[Chris Lampe 2]

Grant also stated that he is working on a new book!  

[iamkeith]

"Ridable prototypes by mid July!" That might just coincide with my first visit to the bay area in a couple of decades, and what I hope to be my first ever visit to RBW HQ. Yipee.

[Justin, Oakland]

If Grant reads this: please pick a woman’s name for the MTB. Perhaps even a non-WASPy woman’s name. It’s be a welcome change and I’d love to shred on a Ellie Fant, Hilda Clime, Filla Gree, or Some such.

Just my two cents.

-J

[Aakash Desai]

A Rivendell frame with a threadless front end would definitely have my interested. I've passed on Rivs in the past because of falling out of favor with threaded front ends. 

[Clayton]

"During that interview, he confirmed a non-disc, non-squish MTB is in the works.  As for other attributes the bike may or may not have, I don't remember any that were mentioned ... though it *might* have longish chainstays ..."

Whelp, there goes my hopes for a plus bike. I can't picture standard V-brakes clearing the tire nor cantilevers. Drum brakes are a weak possibility, so the dream isn't totally dead. Drat.  

Clayton

DirtDance 

[iamkeith]

? Not sure why anyone would think plus tires are off the table. I've used cantis with 3.8" tires on 65mm rims and they were perfectly adequate.

All 2nd hand accounts we've heard of conversations with insiders/employees seem to suggest that a plus sized project is a possibility, even if not this one.

[EasyRider]

I'm probably reading too much into one word, but did I hear Grant use the phrase, "dedicated mountain bike"? it's intriguing to think of how such a bike would differ from a Hunq or a Clem. Maybe clearance for 650b plus tires - which aren't necessary or imho desirable for pavement riding -- would be the distinguishing feature.

Pete
Arlington, VA

[Eric Daume]

What rims would you use for a non disc plus bike? A non-disc plus bike seems like going against the crowd just for the sake of being different, not for any customer merit. 

Eric

On Tuesday, June 12, 2018, iamkeith <keith...@gmail.com> wrote:

? Not sure why anyone would think plus tires are off the table.  I've used cantis with 3.8" tires on 65mm rims and they were perfectly adequate.

All 2nd hand accounts we've heard of conversations with insiders/employees seem to suggest that a plus sized project is a possibility, even if not this one.

[iamkeith]

We sort of discussed this earlier in the thread. Grant stated that there was some key thing that they needed to pull off, and we postulated that it might be a new rim. Garth noted that such 45mm rim brake rims have existed for a long time in 26 (snowcat) and 29 (kris holm) but not yet 650b.

As for whether rivendell "does things for the sake of being different," this might be a particularly appropriate podcast to listen to.

There's also a link on the blahg to a video about the rim extrusion process. Ask youself why? I haven't watched it yet, but I know a new rim profile is easier to bring to life than many of the other innovations that Rivendell is single handedly responsible for, including modern-era 650b rims and tires, ultra-long reach caliper brakes, keeping headbadge art and lug manufacturers relevant, extra-long chainstay stock, to name a few.

[EasyRider]

Good point about the rim availability. Just thinking about what would make for a "dedicated" mtb on Riv's terms. Perhaps it will simply be a MIT Hunq with longer chainstays. Isn't that a Clem, though? Maybe a threadless stem option, like the Roadeo? Seems doubtful.

[John G.]

Velocity Cliffhangers wouldn't work? Too narrow? At the risk of being an armchair designer, I wonder if they're thinking of something similar to a Clem H with a bit more standover and a perhaps shorter chainstays. Rigid mountain bikes are lots of fun, but given that they can't just ride over everything on a trail, they need decent maneuverability. 

[hugh flynn]

Not being a disk user, I may lack crucial experience required to understand, but since one has to use heavier tubing than one might otherwise want in order to resist the hub area forces imparted by disks - is it really THAT contrary to let the ride quality that results from tubing choices take priority over brake choice? Now, if it were a matter of selecting brakes that don’t work over those that do, that would be a different matter, but the suggestion that Cantis and v-brakes don’t work is silly. They do, they really do, and they don’t bring the frame design/construction costs that disks do.

All disclaimers states above apply of course, but this strikes me as a non issue.

Hugh “just stop” Flynn

Newburyport, MA

--

Hugh Flynn
Newburyport, MA

[Brian Campbell]

We will have to wait and see. I guess I wonder what the demand would be for a rigid, 26" wheeled mtb? Seems there are hundreds currently available on my local CL/Facebook.

Also, I thought he Clem was filling this space for Riv? I get wanting to maintain your unique identity as a business in a crowed, cut throat marketplace but I am not sure how you position a 26" wheeled mtb as something that does that? 

[Joe Bernard]

Unless I'm missing what you're responding to, there was no mention of the new bike being 26”. I would think a new Riv mtb would hew closer to 27.5 and 29.

[EasyRider]

I missed the new rim hints! So I will stand by my original prediction of a plus tired capable 27.5 MB-1ish bike with a high by riv standards BB and longish chainstays.

And a suspension stem :)

[Eric Daume]

In my stable, I have a Clem and a Karate Monkey, among others. The Clem is a nice riding bike, but I don’t find it particularly smoother than the disc braked KM. I doubt Riv will be using the super thin Kasei type blades on this project, anyway. 

V brakes stop OK, but discs offer some practical advantages:

- easier to install a fat tire (I have to wiggle an alleged 2.4 past the brake bosses on my Clem)

- wheelsets are more readily available (though this may become less of a factor as most disc wheelsets move to through axles). Yes, a rim extrusion is relatively easy to make. But who wants to build a bike around one rim? 

Eric

On Tuesday, June 12, 2018, hugh flynn <hugf...@gmail.com> wrote:

Not being a disk user, I may lack crucial experience required to understand, but since one has to use heavier tubing than one might otherwise want in order to resist the hub area forces imparted by disks - is it really THAT contrary to let the ride quality that results from tubing choices take priority over brake choice? Now, if it were a matter of selecting brakes that don’t work over those that do, that would be a different matter, but the suggestion that Cantis and v-brakes don’t work is silly. They do, they really do, and they don’t bring the frame design/construction costs that disks do.

All disclaimers states above apply of course, but this strikes me as a non issue.

Hugh “just stop” Flynn

Newburyport, MA

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 8:40 AM Eric Daume <eric...@gmail.com> wrote:

What rims would you use for a non disc plus bike? A non-disc plus bike seems like going against the crowd just for the sake of being different, not for any customer merit. 

Eric

On Tuesday, June 12, 2018, iamkeith <keith...@gmail.com> wrote:

? Not sure why anyone would think plus tires are off the table.  I've used cantis with 3.8" tires on 65mm rims and they were perfectly adequate.

All 2nd hand accounts we've heard of conversations with insiders/employees seem to suggest that a plus sized project is a possibility, even if not this one.



--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.

Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.

Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Hugh Flynn
Newburyport, MA

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.

[Justin, Oakland]

I think there’s a certain irony in lovers of modern Rivendell designs being worried about the extra weight of tubes needed to support having disc brakes.

-J

[hugh flynn]

It’s a fair point to be sure, but is separate from the question I asked.

To put a somewhat finer point on it, my comment did not relate to weight in any way. I referenced the impact of forcing thicker tubes than might otherwise be spec’d in order to accommodate certain brakes that could alter the way the bike rides. Weight is not a factor in that point.

I’m calling myself still ideologically pure :-)

Hugh “flex” Flynn

Newburyport, MA

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 12:52 PM Justin, Oakland <justin...@gmail.com> wrote:

I think there’s a certain irony in lovers of modern Rivendell designs being worried about the extra weight of tubes needed to support having disc brakes.

-J

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.

Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Jeremy Tavan]

I don't think any of the rugged-type Rivendell bikes would need any additional reinforcement to run disc brakes. The Clem/Hunq/Appaloosa are all rather stoutly tubed. Flexy they ain't.

/Jeremy

[Clayton]

(Head down, kicking the dirt with a sad face)   I was hoping for disc so it would be easy to swap wheels. Most of my terrain can be handled with 2.25 tires, so a light wheel set and another set for Plus tires would make it easier to pick. 

Rim selection is vast if you run disc's. Poking around on the net, there isn't much out there for wide rim brake rims, so I would imagine a new rim is being sourced. 

Recently, I talked with Steve Potts about his gravel bike while he was in town. He has a fascinating design with an exterior strut running up the back side of his small diameter TI forks. He explained it transfers the disc braking loads into the crown, allowing very supple forks. All figured out with stress analysis.  I was smitten, but can't afford one. It showed me that a supple fork can coexist with disc brakes, but the aesthetics wouldn't work for a Riv. 

So here are my guesses heavily influenced by all of you and this thread:  27.5 plus tires with rim-brake plus rims. Standard diameter Riv frame tubes, not oversized. Quill stem (more tradition, flex and comfort).  Shortish front center, longer rear center.  Not sure about hubs, 'probably' quick release.  Partially lugged frame.  Ball and socket seatstays.  Slacker steering geometry.  Braze ons galore.  Single chainring. And of course, a pink paint job with little painted peyote buttons, ham hocks and hatchets. 

It will be interesting to compare this new one to a Crust. Crust out 'Rivved' Riv, which was shocking. I expected Grant to come out with a plus bikepack bike a long time ago. Riv could have owned the Crust market IMHO. Crust filled a Rivendell spot that was wide open. 

I hope the new bike is spectacular, with unexpected touches of modern technology that make a difference, such as screw in axles (for greater hub selection), disc brakes for wheel swapping and wet weather performance (and for greater hub selection), and routing for a dropper post. (How did I ever live without one?)

I have my reservations about tubeless tires.  I just started using them last year. They are messy. Hard to change tires on a whim. To me they don't feel any faster or more supple than tubed tires. I have to clean out the tires and add more sealant twice a year. I continue to run tubeless on my Ibis HD3 with an open mind, looking for the advantages, but other than buckthorn flat protection and the ability to run low air pressure, I don't get it. If I lived in buckthorn country, tubeless. If my trails were extremely rough, tubeless. Sometimes it is hard to decipher what is good design through all the marketing BS that get shoved down our starving throats, but we seem to enjoy it.

It would be nice to swap out tubeless disc wheels for the terrain rather than changing a messy gooey tire. I expect Grants rims to be tubeless compatible. It would be silly not to, as most all mountain bike tires now are tubeless compatible. 

This is kinda fun, designing a Rivendell bike by guessing...lol. Who's next?

Clayton

DirtDance

[Joe Bernard]

I think they're missing sales not offering a disc trail bike, but I've given up. Grant doesn't want to do it and it's his business. No discs for you!

[Deacon Patrick]

Justin, it’s not the weight, but the stiffness of the tubes disk brakes require that is the issue for me. My Hunqapillar fork absorbed a LOT of shock.

Also, all bikes come with shocks. The engine contains them in the knees and elbows. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

[James Warren]

I’m on the opposite end. I’m hoping it’s a lugged, cream heat tube, rim brake compatible frame with clearance over 2.5”. I’m not needing 3”. And I’m not proselytizing, just stating my own preference. I prefer cantis to discs for a few reasons. (And I do have a bike with cable disc brakes, no hydraulics through). I prefer the aesthetics and the modes that I have to eliminate brake rub. I find keeping rim brakes in good working order is a more fun process than doing so with discs, which sometimes gets in my head and drives me mad.

Me hearing brake rub could probably be a Poe short story.


-Jim W

> On Jun 12, 2018, at 10:50 AM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I think they're missing sales not offering a disc trail bike, but I've given up. Grant doesn't want to do it and it's his business. No discs for you!
>

[iamkeith]

On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 10:52:37 AM UTC-6, Justin, Oakland wrote:

I think there’s a certain irony in lovers of modern Rivendell designs being worried about the extra weight of tubes needed to support having disc brakes.

I too think the bigger issue is flexibility of the fork blades.  My Clem blades flex like nobody's business.  I'm not sure about Steve Potts' disc version of the Type II fork though.   On one hand I'm inclined to trust anything he says, but I did see several early ones that cracked where the top of the long disc tab attached.  Maybe he's gotten it figured out, but $800 rigid forks are not really feasible for most.  

Not to mention: with a 2.8" or bigger tire casing, even that becomes a moot point - so, yeah, I hear Justin's general comment.  In fact this entire discussion has become very weird and ironic, if you ask me.   So far people have stated that they'd be interested in a new Rivendell mountain bike if only it had:

-  a 1 1/8" threadless steerer

-  disc brakes

-  shorter chainstays

-  higher bottom bracket

-  suspension-corrected geometry

No only would any one of those things would seem to make it not-a-Rivendell, but they describe bikes that already exist.  

Funny - like Clayton, I've also though about how Crust kind of out-Riv'd Riv in some ways and, for a while.  I think Grant's resistance to wider tires was a contributing factor.  (The "if you need a fatter tire, get a Pugsly" thing, and the unwillingness to build large all-rounders around 26" wheels that could use RTP tires because it probably felt like going "backwards." Even though it was a genre that he and Rivendell pioneered.)      Consumers wanting wider tires than Rivendell was willing to accommodate.  If THAT'S not ironic, tell me what is.....

Hopefully, this new mountain bike and its necessary parts will be the start of new direction/option, and Rivs will remain the aspirational version of the type of bikes we dream about.

[EasyRider]

Even if the bike isn't plus-tired if it's in the stepthru bubbe-Roadini price range I'll be tempted.

[Matt B.]

On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 2:01:25 PM UTC-4, James Warren wrote:

I’m on the opposite end. I’m hoping it’s a lugged, cream heat tube, rim brake compatible frame with clearance over 2.5”. I’m not needing 3”. And I’m not proselytizing, just stating my own preference. I prefer cantis to discs for a few reasons. (And I do have a bike with cable disc brakes, no hydraulics through). I prefer the aesthetics and the modes that I have to eliminate brake rub. I find keeping rim brakes in good working order is a more fun process than doing so with discs, which sometimes gets in my head and drives me mad.

Me hearing brake rub could probably be a Poe short story.

-Jim W

I'm with you, Jim. My experience is also limited to cable discs, but I appreciate and the simplicity and shade-tree serviceability of rim brakes, and I actually kind of enjoy making my cantilevers stop plenty well for my needs in dry, wet, or snow.

[Eamon Nordquist]

Yeah, I'm with you too. It's almost certain to have rim brakes, and why not?  I don't get why so many people keep describing bikes that already exist by other companies. I think it will almost certainly have longer chainstays than the Hunqapillar as well. Will they be Clem length? Who knows. I suppose it will likely use the new "wavie" bars (or bullmoose).

I'm personally excited to see what it is, even though I won't get one. My '87 Trek Antelope is still enough mountain bike for me, and an Atlantis would be even more so. The new long chainstay bikes are, like the Jones Plus, probably too long a wheelbase for me to have because of train/bus/car bike rack issues, but that doesn't mean I think they're a bad idea. I'd love to ride one of each!

Eamon