Is the Surly Bridge Club a Disc-braked Hunqapillar?

[Christopher Cote]

Surly released a new bike recently called the Bridge Club. It's a 650b rough-stuff touring bike. I haven't seen much interest on the various bike forums I regularly read, so I thought I'd bring it up here.

To answer the question from my subject line, of course not. However, the Long Haul Trucker is often compared to the Altantis even though it's lacking the subtle Riv details that add up to a not-subtle difference. So, comparing the Bridge Club to the Hunq, it's similar in mission, and takes big 650b tires like the newer Hunq. It has a slightly steeper seat tube, shorter chainstays, higher BB, etc. Those are the (not)subtle differences. The less subtle are disc brakes, threadless headset, TIG welding, tubing choice, etc. I would argue those differences make less practical difference.

For me, I'm interested in the Bridge Club. I couldn't quite get myself to pull the trigger on the Hunq. Rim brakes sealed its fate for me. The war on that topic has been fought. An uneasy truce declared, but I know what side I'm on.

These days I'd rather have a threadless steerer, and Surly bikes come with very long steerers, so if you get to it before the bike shop slams the stem and cuts the steerer tube, it's easy to get the bars at a comfortable height. Otherwise, Crust or VO can supply tall threadless stems.

Last of all, I like blue, when I was considering the Hunq, I figured I'd have it painted Homer blue. The Bridge Club comes that way stock.

I'm curious what other RBW owners think about this.

Chris

[Garth]

The differences are like night and day for sure.... similiar in that they are both "a bike".

If you want a ride "like" a Riv in any way , that ain't it.
A custom builder can build one "like", but the original is the original.

I'm not saying buy it or not, I am saying the Surly is a Surly and a Riv Riv, one will never be like the other, as it is.

[Surlyprof]

I agree. I tried for two years to make a CrossCheck and a SOMA Groove like a Riv and then gave up and bought a Hillborne. Wished I started there.

John

[nash...@gmail.com]

I don't have any experience with a hunqapilar but I think the bridge club looks cool. Non suspension corrected and normal dropouts and big clearance.

[Chris Lampe 2]

I don't own a Riv but I have been researching and drooling over the Hunqapillar for about 8 years now and I'm also a Surly fanboy.

I would say that functionally, the Bridge Club and 650B Hunqapillar are far more alike than they are different.  

The largest functional difference I see is effective top-tube length.  In an apples-to-apples comparison (taking seat angle into account), the Surly has an ETT that is about 35mm longer than the Hunq's.   That's a big difference that for me, can't be overcome with different handlebar/stem combos.  

There is also a very large difference in chainstay lengths but I find I'm not that sensitive to chainstay length and that wouldn't really be an issue for me.  I can ride short or long, quite happily.  

[Christopher Cote]

Yes, it's not going to ride like a Riv. That's the (not)subtle geometry differences in effect. Does a LHT ride like an Atlantis? I doubt it.

Functionally though, they're in the same ballpark.

Chris, I'm curious how you can't get the same reach. Couple an uncut steerer with the currently fashionable 35-50mm MTB stems and a 31.8 to 25.4 adapter, and you should be able to achieve high bars and a reasonable reach.

Chris

[tc]

Yep, you can get a long steerer on a Surly to compensate for the lack of Riv geometry, but you have to live with the look of it :)

Tom

[Christopher Cote]

Doesn't look any worse than a Technomic at max extension, IMO.

Chris

[Eric Daume]

But Rivs have a lot more stack, so you won’t have your Nitto stem at max height to get an equivalent bar height. 

I like Surlys, but I wish they designed their frames with a lot more stack—especially in my XL size. 

Eric

On Wednesday, May 9, 2018, Christopher Cote <christophe...@gmail.com> wrote:

Doesn't look any worse than a Technomic at max extension, IMO.

Chris

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[Chris Lampe 2]

I should have noted that I prefer a long reach to the handlebar and the Hunq would have a cramped cockpit for me.  I could make it work but it wouldn't be optimal for my preferences.   I like a longer top tube with a shorter stem, rather than a shorter top tube with a longer stem.  The former just seems to handle better to me.   

[Garth]

Look at the bright side ..... it came with paint !   ... and it was sprayed on and not in can for the buyer to apply !! 

ahahahahaahahahahaa !!!!

An ism is an ism is an ism  .... mini-malism ..... that's a long a . 

[CMR]

Low bottom bracket height, extended head tube and quill stem gets the bars to that height in a way more elegant way. And I am 100% for threadless and disc brakes, but the Surly and Hunq are just different. I don't think there's anything similar to the hunqapillar in the entire bike market right now. It's a fat tire touring bike for rim brakes, nice bottom bracket drop, 650b or 29er, optimized for upright bars, nice wet paint, the Surly just isn't. I think the use-case for Rivendell though has x1000 matches, but for the actual bike, there are not many. With those fat tires the Surly will ride fine, but it's not a Riv and I wouldn't compare it, and if you want to then a test ride will tell all. Only because I demand kickstand plates on my fat-tired bikes ;)

Chris

[Nick Payne]

This is a fat tyre touring bike I recently built up.

Lynskey GR Pro frame (I took off the Lynskey decals, which I didn't like, and put on my own), Soma Wolverine unicrown disc fork, DT Swiss XM1501 MTB wheels with Compass Switchback Hill tyres, SRAM Force hydraulic shifters mated with SRAM MTB derailleurs, Sugino XD cranks setup as a 110/74 double.

It rides very nicely both on and off the bitumen. Haven't taken it for more than day rides so far - I still have to figure out how to fit my Bruce Gordon front lowrider rack to the Soma fork, as the Bruce Gordon is intended to be mounted by drilling out the threading on a standard fork eyelet so that an M5 bolt goes backwards through the eyelet into the threaded mounting point on the rack.

Nick

[Deacon Patrick]

In 2012 I faced this same question. Hunqapillar or LHT or ???. The cost/benifit analysis is one it sound like you are doing and know well. Is the ride/build quality REALLY worth $X? There is inherant confirmation bias in this group, for we are the RivBunch. So you already know our answer, and it is the same answer you already know or you wouldn’t be repeating the same (un)subtle statements over and over. Grin. My advice is this: if you are asking the question this way trust you already know the answer and don’t settle for less than the Hunqapillar. You will be delighted. The whole brake thing, the pro disk arguements are (in my humble opinion) far less a consideration than the Rivendell essence thing.

I ride close to daily, in all weathers, and rim brakes are decreased in effecience maybe 1% of riding time, if that. I have maybe 10 rides a year where I notice I am riding because of my confidence in my fixed-gear backpedaling on my modified Hunqapillar, and that is on trails in conditions I don’t even see people with disk brake bouncy bikes on. If I didn’t have backpedal braking? I could walk the iffy bits, no big deal. The iffy bits are rarely to never on roads. They give plenty of time to pump the brakes and clear the rims as I ride, so braking is no big deal on them.

Good luck, and whatever you decide, ride with abandon!

With abandon,
Patrick

[Bill Lindsay]

Those wheel formats are, um, I don't know.  A 10x100 QR front wheel.  I've never heard of that.  A 10x138 QR rear wheel to handle 135 or 142.  Is a 142mm QR rear 650B wheel a common thing?  That all seems really unconventional.  Especially since one common target for touring bikes is that you can get commonly available replacement parts anywhere.  If I was spec-ing a 650B disc touring bike, I'd make it compatible with the cross-country mountain bike wheels that 'everybody' runs.  Through axle mountain wheels are pretty darn common now.  Mike Varley got this right with his Road Plus design. 

BL in EC

[Chris Lampe 2]

The Radavist just unveiled a new Crust bike, the Bombora (yeah, the name really caught my eye) .  It's a 27.5 x 2.4" tig welded frame with a bi-plane fork.  There is no real information other than a few photos but this bike might factor into a Hunqapillar/Bridge Club discussion.   It looks like it's specifically designed for drop bars.  

[Christopher Cote]

I'd be willing to bet that the fork takes a standard 100mm QR wheel. The rear doesn't bug me. I'd run a 135mm hub and forget about it.

The BMC Road Plus looks like it will have toe-overlap in my size. That's a no-go for me for anything that will be ridden off pavement around here.

Chris

[Bill Lindsay]

Christopher Cote thinks that Surly has a typo when they claim their bike takes a 10x100 qr front wheel. I think that’s a possibility.

Christopher Cote asserts that the Black Mountain Road Plus will have TCO in his size. What size did you do the calculations on? What front center did you come up with? And finally, what front center do you need to not have TCO?

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito Ca

[Bill Lindsay]

I don't know how many folks actually care about front center or math, but I answered my own question and did the front center calculation for a Size Large Black Mountain Road Plus (my size).  I came up with 635mm. 

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Christopher Cote]

Bill, just a SWAG based on the reach, HTA, and fork offset. Front center or wheelbase aren't posted, so I don't know for sure. Anything less than 620mm for front center will likely give me TO. I'd be looking at a 53cm Road+. I don't think I could be free of TO on any drop-bar designed bike in my size, unless it had 26" wheels.

Chris

[Christopher Cote]

I just checked the frame sheet for the Bridge Club and it says 100mm spaced, 9mm axle front hub.

What frame size are you calling a large? How did you come up with the front center number? I'd think you'd also need the fork length, which I don't see.

Chris

[Bill Lindsay]

Christopher Cote asked how I did the math and which size is Large in my book. 

I'm calling the 53cm a Large.  I thought I picked that up from Mike's blog posts earlier.  Maybe I made it up.  53cm.  I came up with the front center number just using math.  You don't need fork length because you have stack and drop.  Here's the math, step by step (I round to the nearest mm at each step here just so it's less confusing)

1. define a coordinate system with the BB center at (0mm,0mm)

2. the Stack and reach define a point at the top of the head tube center (391,614)

3. Walk down to the bottom of the head tube because he gives you head tube length and head tube angle (447,443)

4. From that point at 3, there are two vectors that make the fork.  There's the effective length along the head tube angle and there's the offset perpendicular to the head tube angle.  The offset and head tube angle you've got, and you know you have to end up at a point that intersects the line at y=bb drop (73mm).  Solve for fork length and you get 408mm for the effective length along the head tube angle. 

5. The resulting x,y coordinates of the front hub are (630,73) for a Front center of 634mm

6. Email Mike Varley to check your calculations, and get it straight from his BikeCad drawing that it's 634.6mm.  :)

Mike's BikeCAD drawing has the fork length as 395mm but you'd have to add in a headset lower thickness.  My treatment above does an effective fork length measured from the bottom of the head tube.  So my fork length includes the headset lower. 

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Christopher Cote]

Nicely done. Glad to see I'm not the only one that obsesses over geometry charts. Now if that frame had a 72 degree STA, I'd be really, really interested. But then, the reach or front-center would be compromised...

Chris