Wide profile canti brake recs

[Norman Bone]

I need to raise the cable hanger on my front brake to accommodate the diving board for a Mark's Rack. The current low profile brakes are marginal (at best) with the hanger closer to the tire and I anticipate that they will not cut the mustard if I raise the hanger another inch or so. I'm using the Tiagra aero levers that Riv sells.

That being said, I'd like to install a wide profile canti on the front that would work well with my existing levers. What wide profile brake have you had a good experience with on your Riv with an aero lever? How high are you running the hanger from the tire?

Thanks-

Norm in PDX

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

A few suggestions.

 

Paul Neo-Retro on my Quickbeam, set up by Mark at Riv (proclaimed by Grant P as the master of canti brake set-up).  VERY powerful, excellent modulation too.  Tektro aero levers.  Pics of hanger height hard to come by because of rack, light and bag interference, but you can see it pretty well on the largest sizes of these:

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/37542512@N04/6708050587/sizes/o/in/set-72157623567913352/

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/37542512@N04/6708050587/sizes/o/in/set-72157623567913352/

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/37542512@N04/4412267966/sizes/o/in/set-72157623567913352/

 

FWIW, I used Paul Touring Cantis, which aren't as wide profile as the Neo-Retros, on a Quickbeam I built for my son, and although the hanger is quite high, the stopping power and modulation still terrific.  I think there's plenty of room to get a diving board under the hanger with this set-up: 

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/37542512@N04/5646014672/sizes/o/in/set-72157626433454817/

 

Love me my Paul brakes.

 

An alternative that's equally strong is a set of Bruce Gordon cantis.  Pic here on my SimpleOne:

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/37542512@N04/6906527983/in/set-72157629391118347

 

These are also very powerful, with excellent modulation, and I think they're really beautiful.

 

 

 

---

From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Norman Bone
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 10:42 AM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Wide profile canti brake recs

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[Allingham II, Thomas J]

But wouldn't a Nitto Mini Front rack work better if you're running cantis?

---

From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Norman Bone
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 10:42 AM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Wide profile canti brake recs

[Minh]

Norm,

I'm guessing you're using the Marks because you already had one?  Tom is right a Nitto Mini front will give a little more clearance because it will dip under the straddle wire.  That being said you can make it work with the Marks.  I have the IRD Cafams on one bike and the Pauls on another (touring in back, neo-retro in front), both of those will clear either rack.  I've also used the Tektro CR720 and they were fine as well.  

If i had to buy brakes again i would just buy the Paul's for both bikes, i know they are expensive but they are really nice to look at, very easy to adjust (especially the spring tension), and the feel of the brakes are amazing, in fact the pauls with mtb brake levers feel almost as good as my hydraulic rim brakes!  The neo-retros are the super wide brakes and i have the straddle really high to clear my nitto mini front and they feel about the same as my touring canti on the rear of the same bike.  my only nit with the Pauls is that they sit farther out on the studs due to the way they are designed, this can be a problem with canti mounted racks.

the ird have a similiar feel, but i find them harder to adjust, but after adjustment they work fine.

cr720, same thing, a little difficult to adjust, but work fine for me.  

I don't know if it's because the Pauls are easier to adjust but they feel the best out of the three to me, though again, i think all of them stop fine.

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

"my only nit with the Pauls is that they sit farther out on the studs due to the way they are designed, this can be a problem with canti mounted racks."

 

I think Paul has a solution for this, a special rack adapter for Paul canti brakes: http://paulcomp.com/rackadapter.html

---

From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Minh
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 4:14 PM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Norman Bone
Subject: [RBW] Re: Wide profile canti brake recs

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[Ryan Ray]

I have these. 

http://www.origin-8.com/images/new_800/13032.jpg

I used them for a few weeks before moving on to a side pull bike. I paid $85 in shop and would sell them for $75 shipped. They are not overly adjustable but they were the first pair I could set up as easy as side pulls. Plus they look awesome and accept regular pads.

I also have a pair of vintage Deore which are infinitely adjustable, in perfect shape with newer salmon koolstops for $25 shipped. Much harder to set up because of the infinite adjustability.

I like those origin-8s allot.

- Ryan

[Ryan Ray]

Looks like those cantos are allot cheaper online. So I can sell mine for 60 shipped.

http://www.amazon.com/Origin8-Ultim8-Cantilever-Brake-Silver/dp/B0046VX3TO

- Ryan

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

I'd suggest the Paul cantis. I don't know why people seem to like the Tektro CR720. Every time I have to set them up or adjust them, I want to swear off my otherwise enjoyable career. And it's not like they have great stopping power, so the appeal must be in cosmetics, I guess. I should mention that Tektro is always my first choice in brakes for sidepulls and v-brakes, so I'm not generally anti-Tektro. All my canti-post bikes have v-brakes now. Even/especially the cheap ones work great. You can get V-brakes and Tektro long-pull levers for about $60.

[rcnute]

All my bikes have wide-profile cantis--Paul Neo-Retros, CR720s and TRP
Eurox. The CR 720s have a little slop in the pivots but have always
worked great for me.

Ryan

On May 3, 2:44 pm, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery <thill....@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Bill M.]

So it's not just me?  I don't find much to like about the CR720's.  The straddle wire was BARELY long enough to clear my Nitto M12, the pads don't clear the forks or stays so they don't open fully (common to lots of brakes these days), and even with the often recommended 'salmon' pads they squeal and don't have great power.  They are on the list to change out one of these days.

Bill

Stockton, CA

[ted]

Hmmm. They are the only canti brakes I have ever used (and that only
fairly recently) so perhaps I am just ignorant of how much better
other options may be but they didn't seem that hard to set up, they
look nice, and they are fairly inexpensive. Whats not to like? I did
have lots of trouble getting the first front 720 I bought to not
squeal, but I think that was really the rim. The other one I have
(front that is) has never seemed prone to squealing.

On May 3, 2:44 pm, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery <thill....@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Michael_S]

The IRD cafam canti's work really well and can be set up wide profile. The supplied straddle wire was too small for the 2.0" tires i'm running on my lugged stumpjumper.  I set 'em up pretty high with some cut to size brake cables. They work great.....see picture.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/37347002@N05/6882320260/in/photostream 

~mike

On Thursday, May 3, 2012 7:41:54 AM UTC-7, Norman Bone wrote:

[Jim M.]

Another vote for Paul; I use the Neo-Retro and have not experienced any other canti with the same stopping power. I also found the CR720 and the Shimano BR550 to have less than adequate stopping power.

jim m
wc ca

[rw1911]

I went from Shimano BR-R550's (which worked fine but had a fairly low,
fixed straddle cable) to Paul Neo-Retro front / Touring rear. the
Pauls are a thing of beauty if you appreciate mechanical / machining
type stuff and the straddle wire clears my Nitto Mini, but I find them
somewhat finicky to dial in. Maybe it's my amateur mechanic skills,
but it's very easy to lockup and skid the rear and the front is so
powerful that it flexes the headset hanger and fork to the point that
the front wheel shudders under hard braking.

[EricP]

Not just you.  My Paul Neo Retros cause fork shudder on my Surly Cross Check.  It's one reason I didn't swap those brakes over to the SimpleOne.  Although may still swap at a later date.

 

The 720s are fairly good brakes, but they do take some time to set up. Or at least that's how I feel about it now after using V brakes on a number of builds.  Even last night was raising the straddle cable on the back of the SImpleOne to get the 720s to work a touch better.  Was only able to do that because swapped the rear rack to a Nitto R-14 and there was more room between the stays.

 

Eric Platt

St. Paul, MN

[newenglandbike]

I tried shimano 550s and was disappointed, I'll never go back to low-profile brakes.     I really dig my Tektro CR720's.    In fact, I use them on three different bikes, two of them with Nitto mini-fronts.   I have never had Paul brakes, but a friend of mine has them and likes them.    I don't think I'll ever get them though, since I have no reason to.    The CR720s are fantastic brakes.   Here's a pic of them on my quickbeam:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/43029278@N07/4136473729/in/set-72157622885539082

Shimano MC70 was also a pretty decent brake.

-Matt

[Michael Hechmer]

I'm always surprised by posts from people that have difficulty setting up Pau's brakes or  have difficulty with modulation.

I too had the Shimano 550s and found that they were very difficult to set up with Shimano levers (better with Cane Creek) and even with salmon pads offered mediocre braking.  I switched to Neos.  Set up, the first time was tricky, because it was so different from any other brake I had ever used. ( A youtube video would be helpful.) I put them on my Ebisu All Purpose and they have been terrific.  I now can move them and set them up very quickly, get great power, great modulation, no shutter or squeal.  Since then I have put Racers on the tandem and Racer Ms on the Rambouillet.  If I were having the kind of problems so people report, I would contact Paul's; I'm sure they would want to help

Michael

[Ginz]

I'm a fan of the CR720s for the cost. I find them to be much better
than the Oryx. I would have gone for the Paul's but the weren't
going to work with the custom mini-rack I have on my rig.

As always, ditch the stock Tekro cable hanger and use salmon pads.

[ted]

Why ditch the cable hanger? It seems very nice to me.

[Michael Hechmer]

It makes set up a PIA.

[EricP]

Will chime in and posit the wider carrier may not work as well with high profile brakes. Or at least the 720s.   Limited experiments by me seem to indicate the old Dia-Compe narrow carrier might be a bit better.  Am probably going to switch over to those on my SimpleOne.  Previously had done the swap on my Sam Hillborne, before switching over the V brakes.  And noticed better stopping power with the hangers in approximately the same position.  It is possible there was a very slight adjustment in height, which resulted in the better power, but am not totally convinced.

 

Also, the older brakes usually had narrow carriers, and that may have been intentional. 

 

Just some thoughts and guesses on a Saturday morning.  The Tektro hangers do look nicer.

 

Eric Platt

St. Paul, MN

 

 

 

[CCX]

That is a great looking QB.

I second the Pauls neos' as brilliant brakes with tektro and suntour aero levers. I use them front and rear.  Also pad choice and placement are a lot more critical than you might think and I would play around with that a bit too.  

[William]

I ditched the hanger on the bike where I wanted to be able to do a faster cockpit swap.  With the old school dia compe carrier, I can QR the brake and get the entire brake cable assembly off the bike, wrenchless.  The other cockpit has it's own cable and housing set up with its own pair of dia compe carriers at the end, and installs without putting a wrench on the brakes at all

The other thing about the tektro carrier is that if you actually use the tiny pinchy bolts, then the straddle doesn't slide, and the brakes don't QR wide enough for really chubby tires to get off the bike. 

It is good looking, though. 

[Tom Harrop]

So what's the thinking on the cause of brake chatter? I have CR720s with Kool Stop dual compound my 68 cm Bombadil and I get some pretty ferocious chatter, particularly when it's wet. When the front brake doesn't chatter, it squeals!

Is it because of the super-long fork blades? Or have I done something wrong setting them up?

[newenglandbike]

In my experience, brake squeal can be tuned out with slight adjustments to the angle of the pads.  it may take a few tries but usually works.    If that doesn't work I'll switch to different pads, but usually it does.

[Michael Hechmer]

I would agree.  Although sometimes it takes significantly more toe in than books and blogs suggest.  Also, if you ride in rain, even a light one, you can get a film of oil on the rims.  Sometimes, simply cleaning the rims with a degreaser, even dish detergent, can correct a lot of braking problems.

Brakes, you don't really need them, they just slow you down!  On the other hand when you really need to stop on a dime, Paul's the brake to bet your life on.  Plus, I'm a big buy local fan, so I use parts from PW, White, Paul, & Cane Creek, and am partial to American frame builders.

Michael

[rw1911]

As others have mentioned, squeal is something that can normally be
adjusted. Shuddering (IME) is a result of a powerful brake, cable
stop and fork flex. My brakes are silent, but I do experience shudder
under hard braking. (I can actually see the cable stop move and the
front fork flex rearward)

[dougP]

I use coins when I need some brake pad toe-in. Some pads come with
silly little cardboard shims; not enough! Start with a dime, then a
penny. In some cases it's taken a nickel's worth of toe-in to shut
off the noise. And it's not limited to cantis; even side-pulls can
make you crazy.

dougP

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