Going from Sam (60cm to New Atlantis (59cm) - asking the unaskable: how will the New Atlantis feel?

[JP]

(As I mentioned previously i thought i "needed" a new bike but don't.  However, it was too late I wanted a new bike.)

I had always planned on getting a 63 MUSA Homer, but I just bought a New Atlantis frame based on the following logic:

1. The best bike i've ridden has been the my dads Homer 63 cm Toyo.  

2. I've loved my Sam but i always like how the Homer was bigger (and it felt longer).  The new bikes in the running (New Homer, New Atlantis and Appaloosa) are all even longer than the 63cm Homer

3. Shell ridge is very close to where i live and i would be interested in riding there.

4. Even if I was going to get the New Homer, it's sold out in my size.

4. Will @ RBW said an Appaloosa with Homer sized tires will feel more like a "Homer" than a Homer with big tires would.

5. Appaloosa is also sold out.

6. New Atlantis even longer and sturdier 

I'm possibly going to cannibalize the Sam and then sell the frame, the silver sidepull brakes, and possibly the crank if RBW can't help me get a 1-1 ratio out the small ring.  Or sell to family member.

My brother has a 62 hunq and it doesn't feel a little heavier to ride than the homer, but not dramatically so.  I've read the "weight thread" and I still don't feel like i know the answer and so i thought it would ask 

Is the New Atlantis going to fill "heavy" compared to a Sam or Homer?

JP

[Deacon Patrick]

JP,

My two ridable Rivs are opposites on the Riv spectrum. The svelt Quickbeam as a fixed gear cross bike and Gus Boots Willsen as an MTB all ways hauler. Do they feel different to ride? Absolutely. The reality is, however, that for all that, they arrive to the same spot on the same trail under the same conditions within minutes of each other. Each is a delight to ride and you will love the Atlantis. The engine matters more, and every Riv you ride will have the same engine. No way round that. Grin.

With abandon,

Patrick

[JP]

Nice thanks!   Just having a bike that fits me at 6'2", that doesn't require me to stand on my head, and has friction shifting is a miracle.

[dougP]

JP:

If the Atlantis, Homer or Sam were all set-up the same as far as racks, bags, gear, etc., none should feel any heavier than the others.  Since you're in Rivendell's back yard, they can advise you on appropriate gearing.  They typically use wide range cassettes (e.g., 11-34 & 12-36) so with their "wide low double" (26 x 38?) you get a low gear that will exceed your 1:1 spec. 

Since they went to the long wheelbase, lots of the geometry specs have changed. Comparing frame sizes based on seat tube length can be deceiving.  I have a 58 cm '03 Toyo Atlantis.  A while back I tried out a new, long wheelbase Atlantis at Riv.  They asked me a couple of questions, grabbed one out of the line-up, set the seat height & said "have fun, and let us know what you think".  It rode more comfortably than my bike and handled well on the trails.  When I returned, they told me it was a 53 cm, but due to the sloping top tube it fit me as well as my 58, while providing gobs more standover height (a desirable characteristic on trails).

You say you've bought the Atlantis.  Just build it up & enjoy it.  I think you'll be pleased with the ride & handling.

dougP

[JP]

Thanks! yes I did convert between the old chart and the new. Good to know it’s not going to be sufficiently noticeable to worry!

[brendonoid]

I feel like I am particularly qualified to comment on this thread. I currently own and ride regularly a 63cm MUSA homer (2011) a doubleTT 60cm MIT Sam (2013) and a 58cm appa (2018).

Very different and very similar bikes all at the same time. The set up and parts choice effects how 'heavy' they feel so much more than the frame.

The homer is my lightest frame > then the Sam > Appaloosa.

My Homer has always been set up with racks baskets fenders dyno full commuter spec and has always felt 'heavier' than Sam which is just a light gravel bike setup.

The Appaloosa (basically the same as the Atlantis as i understand it now) is the heavier frame for sure, but has felt like a totally different bike depending on when I've got it in full touring mode with knobbies and fenders and full campee racks or when its in 80s mountain bike mode with bullmoose bars.

The parts and set up are what matter. You'll be happy with the Atlantis if you are happy with the set up. I love my Appaloosa.

[JP]

Thanks much!

[John G.]

What size Atlantis did you go with?

[Steve Cole]

JP,

I've been meaning to add my two cents to this thread and hopefully be helpful to you.  I own a Toyo (2007) A. Homer Hilsen (59 cm) and an MIT Atlantis (55 cm).   I've taken the time to ride both in the last week in an effort to appreciate/zero in on the differences.  Before talking about the rides, however, it would probably be helpful if I described the builds.  

Both bikes have similar builds, although the Atlantis has a slightly more upscale bulid with a Shimano XT drivetrain while the AHH has a Shimano Deore drivetrain.  The Atlantis has a better crankset (MIddleburn), bottom bracket (SKF), and headset (Cane Creek).  The AHH has standard Riv components in these areas.  Both have Paul brakes -- centerpull on the AHH, Motolites on the Atlantis.  The AHH has Velocity Atlas rims with Rene Herse Barlow Pass EL 38 x 700c tires; the Atlantis has Velocity Quill rims with tubeless Rene Herse Antelope Hill EL 55 x 700c tires.  Both bikes have Nitto Bullmoose handlebars.  While the Atlantis has several upgrades, i don't think they actually affect the rides of the two bikes in any very noticeable way.  No doubt the different tire sizes contribute to any difference.  Finally, both have Berthoud saddles, Aspin on the Atlantis, Aravis on the AHH.

I bought the Atlantis new recently hoping -- expecting -- it would become my one bike.  I expected to be selling my AHH and my Simpleone.  The jury is still out.  Since i received the Atlantis in early March, I've ridden it the most.  The ride, as many have described, is very forgiving.  It takes both pavement and dirt extremely well, perhaps just a bit better than the AHH.  I have not noticed any Atlantis handling issues.  It tracks very well taking corners as well as the AHH.  It goes exactly where I want it to go.  As others have noted, I'm the heaviest part of either ride, so the modest additional weight of the Atlantis is only slightly noticeable.

So, why am I at sixes and sevens with respect to making the Atlantis my one bike?  When I get on the AHH, it still seems nearly perfect for most of the riding I do, which is on pavement.  When it's on dirt, it does not handle quite as well as the Atlantis.  Still I love the AHH, in some ways have thought of it as the best Rivendell has designed.  And it is beautiful -- I love the blue color.  And, while Grant swears their is no difference between Toyo, and Waterford AHhs, in my head I feel the Japanese builders understand steel and brazing in their souls.

So, I will keep the AHH for now.  I will ride both, although the Atlantis will get dibs most days,  And, the Simpleone will soon be offered to others.

I hope this is helpful.  Let me know if I can add any more..

Steve Cole

Arlington, VA

[Joe Bernard]

Steve, I totally agree about keeping your Toyo AHH. I had one many years ago and sold it when they weren't the rare pieces they are today. Who knew?? I wish I had that one back.

[Adam Leibow]

i have the new MIT atlantis and it's a joy to pedal despite not being the fastest bike out there. i had a sam which was slightly svelter/faster but still not the zippiest bike. i got the atlantis cause i wanted a riv all arounder/MTB more than i wanted a "light touring" bike like the sam. if you're riding trails you'll love the atlantis. 

On Tuesday, April 28, 2020 at 6:41:29 PM UTC-7, JP wrote:

[Brett Callahan]

JP, I have a Sam in 58 and the Atlantis in 59. The Atlantis feels noticeably bigger in both good and bad ways. It's less zippy, more stable. Tire choice is probably a factor here--700x 50 Cazaderos on the Atlantis and 700x38 Compass on the Sam.

To me the Atlantis is more loaded touring, rough stuff focused. It certainly handles a load well. Neither bike is sprightly. I've swapped a lot of parts between the two, but have arrived at using the Atlantis in a flat bar V brakes and knobbies setup that is fun to ride in all conditions but never fast. The Sam is more road focused with drops.

Enjoy your new ride!
Brett in pdx

[Daniel Betancourt]

I have a 61 Sam and ordered a 62 Atlantis two weeks ago. I am curious on the ride differences as well. My buddy that owns an Atlantis swears by the bike and I am building out the bike in a similar fashion as the Sam except for 700/36 XT/Atlas wheels by Rich and a quill stem mount shifter to try out something different than bar end shifters. I'm looking forward to having a mirror hanging off the end of my bar.

Dan

On Tuesday, April 28, 2020 at 9:41:29 PM UTC-4, JP wrote: