FS: Berthoud post-mount rack/bag combo

[Joe Bernard]

The story behind this is I bought it some years ago, didn't use it long and sold it, then got it traded back to me a while back. Am I ever going to use it again? This seems increasingly unlikely so you should! Fits 27.2, with shim that works on 26.8. It's some insane price new now, I can't imagine anyone is paying that. How's about $170 shipped? 

Joe Bernard 

Marin County, CA. 

Text 415 786 4623 for the way mo pics

[Joe Bernard]

Bump and price drop, $100 shipped. At this point I want someone who could use it to pay me just enough to bother boxing and shipping. It's gotta go! 

[Hetchins52]

This is an insane deal! It's gonna cost Joe at least $25 just to ship it and it is one of the most beautiful bags around. The color matches that of the blue-gray Berthoud handlebar bags. When I see the Sackville TrunkSack described as a "miniature pirate's chest," this fits the bill perfectly, for a large pirate's overnight bag: Straps, brass buckles and rivets and leather everywhere!

The rack is a marvel, too. No rack brazeons? No saddle loops? This rack just needs the seat post and you can raise or lower it as much as the seat post length allows.

I've got one here in my home office (and the rack is in the garage). The bag would look just fine in a display case. A new one is 224.70 Euro (without the rack).
David Lipsky

Berkeley, CA

[neal...@gmail.com]

Interesting rack, never seen something like that. I couldn't wrap my head around the setup so I looked it up.
Here's a link with pictures of how it attaches in case others were as curious as I was.
https://www.euroasiaimports.com/productcart/pc/Gilles-Berthoud-Seatpost-Rack-p11657.htm

[Valerie Yates]

Joe -- I'm interested. I sent you an email. Thanks. 

Val in Boulder CO

[Joe Bernard]

SOLD! I would normally privately answer the other folks who missed out but there's a dozen of you, this thing really blew up last night! It went to the first person who contacted me. Thanks!

[Joe Bernard]

Btw (this is for future pricing searches) this is not what you should expect someone to sell it for. Sometimes I like to sell fast and get a thing outta my house, in the process giving a Riv Person a crazy deal. If you're reading this in the year 2025 the bag and rack are worth way more than this! 👍

Joe Bernard

[Paul Brodek]

Just cause I'm a fan of these, I'll ruin things for everybody again with a deeper dive that nobody asked for. I've bought/had/sold a bunch of these beauties, am down to just two now, neither currently in use, and definitely neither of them for sale.

The bags in question are the Berthoud GB604/9.6L and GB704/7L. If the model numbers confuzzle your logic (Lower number is bigger? 7L has "7" in the number, but why is the 9L bag "6"?), IIRC Mr. Berthoud numbers his creations by the date he dreamed them up, so the 9.6L bag was birthed in June '04, then the smaller 7L bag came along a month later in July. His model numbers are a combo road map and calendar.

These two particular bags IMHO have the look and elegance of those early automobile trunks, which were actual trunks(bags) sitting atop a rack. Which these could be, for a bicycle. Visually there's both a strong retro and definite carriage-trade appeal, and people seem to viscerally respond to them in a way they usually don't for other similarly constructed canvas/leather bags. A photo of my Waterford ST-22 with a gray B604 attached is my most-liked photo on my flickr account, and though the bike itself is very nice, I don't think it would get anywhere near as many clicks if it had a different bag. It's the rug that ties the room together.

The mounting/rack system is unique, afaik, in the true sense of the word. I don't know of any other bicycle bag that requires support from both the bottom and top of the bag. That additional complexity, and all that rack, somehow doesn't detract from the overall loveliness. How can something so visually clunky still look so pretty?

But the rack is indeed very heavy, and I've long wondered how much of that metal is really necessary, and how much nicer it could be without it. And as somebody who always wants rear rack bags sitting as low as possible, I usually mount mine with the seatpost stem upside down, which puts the elegant Berthoud logo upside-down as well. Tres gauche. But the rack also provides great support, and somehow still allows near-full access to the bag top.

My not-ready-for-primetime solution was to chop up one of the racks and zip-tie it to a VO Constructeur rear rack, which is about the most minimalist production rear rack around. It still looked a little clunky, but it changed the bag from a seatpost bag to a rack bag, and I like it better that way. Puts it in a better position, cuts a lot of weight, and looks like a proper trunk atop a Duesenberg or Bugatti. Note that I'm not a vintage car guy, so apologies if either/both of those marques never had old-timey trunks. Cord? I'm not a fan of zip-tied racks though, so I've discussed having a rack gugified by Dr. Gugie into a solid one-piece solution.

In terms of pricing, you could say the Berthouds have carriage-trade pricing to match their looks. But you'd also be overlooking other expensive small-production boutique bicycle bags, which can be just as pricey. Many of those using mere nylon, zippers, elastic drawcords and plastic hooks. Ewww. But, yeah, 225 Euro for the 604, 196 Euro for the 704 and 108 Euro for the rack---cheap they ain't. They are built to last, so there's that.

And final thoughts (yay!) on pricing/resale, first stating that I hate to admit the truth that when selling used items, things are worth what people will pay, not what I want them to be worth. $100 shipped for Joe's 604/rack was an incredible bargain. Crikeys, it's $400 new! That said, I've never been able to get much more than $150 for these used, plus maybe $25 for shipping. Like so many things I'm inordinately fond of, that seem to somehow always have limited appeal, I always get less than half of new cost for these, even when they look essentially new. I don't think it's a Berthoud thing, I often see used Berthoud front bags sell for much closer to their new price. Rear bags are not the hot ticket these days, not many folks know about these Berthouds, they're definitely an acquired taste, and most of the used ones you see for sale are from folks saying "I tried it a couple times, but..."

Pix: 604 mated with a I fergit front Berthoud on a Gunnar Street Dog canti fixed gear frame, note stem upside-down-ness. And the 604 zip-tie rear rack on the W'ford ST-22. Can't find any pix handy of the 704 on anything.

Paul Brodek

Hillsdale, NJ USA

   

[Peter Adler]

Well, there's always this one, from the Euro-Asia link David posted above:

I am mindful of this at the moment because I returned from David's and my mutual bike kitchen* with a used GB 704, without realizing that's what it was. I didn't see the rack, because I didn't know I needed it; now I'll need to go back tomorrow to do a hard-target search for it, because although they still feature the bags that require the racks, GB no longer lists racks or decaleurs of any kind on their site - a troubling development. Euro-Asia may have inventory, so any shop with an E-A account can order it; but it's not clear that there's any new product coming in from France.

Maybe Monsieur Gugliamana will get some more business out of this, if making up for the inconsistencies of constructeurs is a trade he wants. And I do feel I should mention that the GB racks, clever as they are, are also butt-ugly.

TL; DR version: I paid $75 for a much scruffier-looking, smaller GB bag without the required rack, which may no longer be available. So Joe's price was a crazy good deal.

Peter Adler

Berkeley, CA/USA

*Street Level Cycles in West Berkeley, which finally opened the shop to the public at the beginning of May after being sealed up for 14 months. I've spent about $300 in the last few weeks, just hoovering up used bike parts I'll know when I see, but I can't ask some young'un to ID with any confidence

[Paul Brodek]

Kinda weird, I also couldn't find any links to racks/decaleurs from Berthoud's website, but when I googled "Berthoud BG604 rack," I got this link:

https://berthoudcycles.fr/en/160-racks

Which brings up the following page, so it might just be a website malfunction? Hard to imagine they'd ditch all those decaleurs and stuff. There's klickfix stuff there, too, and they still carry bags that mount with klickfix.

Ben's in Mwke is a Berthoud retailer, btw, though they don't carry/stock the whole range. Didn't see the GB604-704 or rack listed, fer instance.

Paul Brodek

Hillsdale, NJ USA

[Joe Bernard]

That happened to me when I was trying to find pics for the buyer that showed how the rack/bag look on a bike. I don't remember how I found the racks but it wasn't easy. Weird site. 

[Peter Adler]

There's no rack/decaleur link in the main interface of the French version, either.

The site's been redone sometime during our Year of Plague, to be more modernish - much shinier, a lot more Javascript. It's possible (and I would daresay likely) that whatever bunch of web designers M. Berthoud hired to do his redesign got careless about the links, and whoever was checking off on their work didn't follow through all the links to make sure everything was publicly visible.

I suppose somebody like me ought to drop them a note about that...

Peter "as if I don't have cable TV serieses to binge" Adler

trying to finish The Americans tonight in

Berkeley, CA/USA