Paul Motolites, short review and pics

[Joe Bernard]

Remember these linear pull brakes from the early '90s before linear pull was really a thing? I just picked them up from James and Candice at Analog Cycles and I confess, I bought them because they're Paul and MUSA and cool and I wanted them. Did I think they would work better? This didn't even occur to me, they're brakes, they're going to stop things, that's all I ask. Well kids let me tell ya, these babies have modulation and smoothness and power you can't BELIEVE! I like em, check em out. 

Joe Bernard

[Lucky Turnip]

Oof, plus, they're gorgeous on that bike. 

On Sat, Jun 5, 2021 at 9:32 PM Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Remember these linear pull brakes from the early '90s before linear pull was really a thing? I just picked them up from James and Candice at Analog Cycles and I confess, I bought them because they're Paul and MUSA and cool and I wanted them. Did I think they would work better? This didn't even occur to me, they're brakes, they're going to stop things, that's all I ask. Well kids let me tell ya, these babies have modulation and smoothness and power you can't BELIEVE! I like em, check em out. 

Joe Bernard

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[sam.per...@gmail.com]

I read that you can use them to run different wheel sizes assuming you star with a 26 inch wheel. Anyone try it? And would the higher pad position affect performance. I’d imagine it would introduce some flex. Any insight?

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 5, 2021, at 9:32 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Remember these linear pull brakes from the early '90s before linear pull was really a thing? I just picked them up from James and Candice at Analog Cycles and I confess, I bought them because they're Paul and MUSA and cool and I wanted them. Did I think they would work better? This didn't even occur to me, they're brakes, they're going to stop things, that's all I ask. Well kids let me tell ya, these babies have modulation and smoothness and power you can't BELIEVE! I like em, check em out. 

Joe Bernard

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<Screenshot_20210605-211408_Gallery.jpg>

<Screenshot_20210605-211416_Gallery.jpg>

[Joe Bernard]

There's certainly room on the post to run 700c on my 650b bike, but then you start running out of room for the tire under the cable. Maybe a skinny road tire would fit. 

[velomann]

When I built up my new Sam last fall I decided to go with Motolites. I'm a Paul components fan in general, and ran Racers on my Rambler for several years, have Klampers on 3 bikes, and had an all purpose bike set up with Touring cantis rear and Neo-Retros front ala-cyclocross style. But the Motolites - wow. Easy to set up (I still do not understand why some people complain about this), great modulation, and all the stopping power you could possibly want from a brake. I tell others they have now spoiled me for any other rim brakes. I bought a second pair I plan to install on my Bontrager to replace the DX cantis. One caveat: I was being inattentive on a slow ride - reaching in my handlebar bag with my right hand for something and saw something on the side of the road I wanted to pick up and not thinking squeezed a little two hard on the left brake - you see where this is going. Textbook slow speed top-end crash when the front wheel decisively and thoroughly locked up. My fault totally. and a renewed appreciation for the Motolites.

Pics attached. You can see that I swapped out the stock spring adjuster nuts for Orange anodized ones which match the dark gold Sam pretty perfectly.

Mike M

[RichS]

Sam,

To answer your question, Yes. I used Motolites on a 26" wheel Atlantis for a 650b conversion. Worked fine.

Joe, the red cable end caps are a nice touch!

Best,

Rich in ATL

[Joe Bernard]

Thanks Rich! Now that I've seen Mike's orange spring tensioners I'm thinking some red ones on my custom would be sweet. Cuz apparently I haven't spent enough money on Paul brakes yet! 😂

Joe Bernard

[Jason Fuller]

Great upgrade!  I would say that it's a little bittersweet that you love them, because that means I can't buy them for my Hillborne, but I think we've dealt with enough Paul brake shipping malarky together for a lifetime hey?  hahaha

I felt exactly the same when I put Motolites + Paul levers on the Bombadil.  I couldn't believe it.  Felt like absolutely bottomless power, and yet their modulation was fantastic.  I have run V-brakes a whole bunch in the past and modulation has never been their strong point, until now.  I expect a lot of the modulation is due to the levers, but regardless, what a heck of a pairing.  They still don't hold a candle to disc brakes in the wet, but in the dry I'll take Motolites any day.  

[Joe Bernard]

Canada shipping is fun! 😂

It would be interesting to see how the brakes felt with non-Paul levers but I'll say this: I had the Paul levers first (replacing Shimano) with the Shimano XT v-brakes that were on the bike and there was no difference in feel and modulation. All the change was in adding the MotoLite arms. 

About setup that someone mentioned: Yes it's different and can be finicky if you're used to how most v-brakes work. The "problem" isn't the Pauls, it's that Paul did this design first and it's only familiar and easy if you knew it first. The standard style we all know now came later. 

Joe Bernard

[sam.per...@gmail.com]

Thanks rich, I may try them. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 6, 2021, at 3:30 PM, RichS <rshann...@gmail.com> wrote:

Sam,

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[Joe Bernard]

One more note: I'm using the "ebike pads" Riv sells, which work great and that cool chrome matches the hardware on the arms. I couldn't tell ya how the stock orange pads feel, they looked funky against the gray/red and the bike never got out of the house with them! 

Joe "new orange pads for sale cheap" Bernard

[R Shannon]

Joe,

Are these Kool-Stop Thinline pads (with post and washers)? If so, I can take them off your hands.

Thanks very much.

Best,

Rich in ATL

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[Joe Bernard]

Yes indeed. There's one ahead of you I'm waiting to hear back from, I'll holler back atcha if he doesn't want them 👍

[R Shannon]

Okay, thanks Joe.

- Rich

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[Peter Adler]

On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 3:30:23 PM UTC-7 RichS wrote:

Sam,

To answer your question, Yes. I used Motolites on a 26" wheel Atlantis for a 650b conversion. Worked fine.

Converting wheel sizes by moving the pads up/down works, but there are limits. The pad placement difference between a 559 26" wheel and a 584 650B wheel is only 12.5mm, which falls within the pad adjustment range of most brakes. But I once tried converting a 26"/559 VooDoo Hoodoo to 700c/622 wheels using only Paul MotoDVs. Boosting the pads 31.5mm above the normal position sacrificed so much mechanical advantage that the braking was pretty much worthless. I ended up addressing the problem with a 700c CX fork in front, and a Mavic Caliper Adjuster in back (a brake booster that bolts onto the normal 26" canti bosses, and has a supplementary set of canti bosses brazed on in the 700c position), which restored the brakes' awesomeness.

On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 8:25:30 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

About setup that someone mentioned: Yes it's different and can be finicky if you're used to how most v-brakes work. The "problem" isn't the Pauls, it's that Paul did this design first and it's only familiar and easy if you knew it first. The standard style we all know now came later. 

Well, yes and no. I think there's an argument to be made that the inspiration for the Paul Motolites (the version Mike M's using are the  to-my-mind even cooler MotoDVs) are the late 80s-early 90s Cheap Tricks, done by the one-man operation  Marinovative, that one man being the teenage genius Ben Capron (later of Specialized).

http://mombatbicycles.com/MOMBAT/BikeHistoryPages/Marinovative.html

Peter Adler

who speaks truth to Paul's power by riding with a pair of Marinovative bidons on his Paul-equipped VooDoo in

Berkeley, CA/USA

[Joe Bernard]

"First" in the context of my post means "before the ones you're used to now", not that Paul invented linear pull brakes. 

Update: Pads are sold. 

[Andrew Letton]

When converting from 26" to 700c, as Peter mentioned did below, I wonder how Motolites would have worked with short pull levers? It seems like that could have solved the issue as well.

cheers,

Andrew L...armchairing it in Sydney

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[sam.per...@gmail.com]

That’s great insight.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 7, 2021, at 6:33 PM, Peter Adler <divis...@gmail.com> wrote:



On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 3:30:23 PM UTC-7 RichS wrote:

Sam,

To answer your question, Yes. I used Motolites on a 26" wheel Atlantis for a 650b conversion. Worked fine.

Converting wheel sizes by moving the pads up/down works, but there are limits. The pad placement difference between a 559 26" wheel and a 584 650B wheel is only 12.5mm, which falls within the pad adjustment range of most brakes. But I once tried converting a 26"/559 VooDoo Hoodoo to 700c/622 wheels using only Paul MotoDVs. Boosting the pads 31.5mm above the normal position sacrificed so much mechanical advantage that the braking was pretty much worthless. I ended up addressing the problem with a 700c CX fork in front, and a Mavic Caliper Adjuster in back (a brake booster that bolts onto the normal 26" canti bosses, and has a supplementary set of canti bosses brazed on in the 700c position), which restored the brakes' awesomeness.

<Mavic_Caliper_Adjuster.jpg>

<VooDoo_rear-ish.jpg>

On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 8:25:30 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

About setup that someone mentioned: Yes it's different and can be finicky if you're used to how most v-brakes work. The "problem" isn't the Pauls, it's that Paul did this design first and it's only familiar and easy if you knew it first. The standard style we all know now came later. 

Well, yes and no. I think there's an argument to be made that the inspiration for the Paul Motolites (the version Mike M's using are the  to-my-mind even cooler MotoDVs) are the late 80s-early 90s Cheap Tricks, done by the one-man operation  Marinovative, that one man being the teenage genius Ben Capron (later of Specialized).

http://mombatbicycles.com/MOMBAT/BikeHistoryPages/Marinovative.html

Peter Adler

who speaks truth to Paul's power by riding with a pair of Marinovative bidons on his Paul-equipped VooDoo in

Berkeley, CA/USA

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<Mavic_Caliper_Adjuster.jpg>

<VooDoo_rear-ish.jpg>

[Peter Adler]

Without parsing the details too carefully, there is certain potential to that notion; I may try it. I didn't try it with the pictured build, because I was still monkeying with flatbars then. All the components have been transferred off the 15" Hoodoo that was way too small for me onto an older 19" Hoodoo that's a much better fit. I'm currently setting it up with mustache bars, but may still go the dropbar route. In either case, short-pull road levers are a viable option. The worst possibility is that it wouldn't work, in which case all the bits to make it work with long-pull levers are already in hand.

[Steven Sweedler]

Peter, do you have a close up of the Mavic caliper adjuster, never heard/seen of them before. Thanks, Steve

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Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire

[Peter Adler]

The bike in the photo is now disassembled, with the caliper adjuster transferred to the bigger Hoodoo. I'll try to get a higher-rez photo tomorrow and post it up.

I'd never heard of the widget either, until I embarked on the wheel-embiggening project somewhere around 2010. I figured that since I never ride offroad, a bigger wheel gets me a little farther for each rotation. In part, it was a quest for smoother tires; it's possible that had Compass been in business selling slick 26" tires back then, I might never have tried to go to 700c.

Fortunately for me, VooDoos were designed by Joe Murray, who also designed the early Konas. His design style happens to include brake bridges on canti frames placed pretty high, which gives you a lot of space for bigger wheels (I was running mostly 700c 33mm, and I still had space to go bigger). The only problem was the placement of the canti bosses, which is inherent in any canti 26" frame.

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/mavic-2013-brake-caliper-adjusters/rp-prod33432

An extended googling revealed the existence of the Mavic caliper adjuster, which I'd just seen in a closed auction on eBay. It appeared on Mavic's site for nearly a decade. I then started going into every dealer in San Francisco's East Bay, asking for one. Every single dealer looked at me as if I was crazy ("I've never heard of such a thing; Mavic doesn't make them. Why would you even want something as stupid as that?"). I'd explain my project; they'd pull out the Mavic catalog, find the item and be dumbfounded ("well, I'll be damned...").

After over a year's searching, I walked into the sixteenth Mavic dealer - Montano Velo in North Oakland, then the home of the locally famous Broakland fixed-gear. I delivered my usual speech in a tone of despair and resignation (do you have a Mavic caliper adjuster - it's a kind of canti brake booster with additional pivot posts), expecting the usual answer (see above). Instead, the young'un behind the counter said:

"What, you mean like these?"

He then reached under the counter and pulled out a cardboard box with six of the things. I immediately paid him $25 for one; he told me that they'd been there for at least three years, and that I was the first person to even ask for one, forget buy one.

They are a niche part for a niche purpose, but they perform their niche task really well, at least in the rear. I'd be a little more nervous about relying on one for a front brake - the caliper does flex, and it might be unnerving to see on the front end. If you're committed to the 26"-to-700c idea, I think it makes more sense to mount a rigid cyclocross fork or sprung 29er fork in place of the 26" one.

Peter Adler

Berkeley, CA/USA

[Liam Dalzell]

I've used them to switch between 650b and 26" wheels on the same bike - performance is grand either way.    (The rim widths on my 650bs differ from the 26"s, complicating mechanical advantage comparisons - would be interesting to see how they get on with only a vertical adjustment of the pads.  But oodles of power in either case.)  Am guessing that the excellent performance is partly down to the beefy cylindrical arms' resistance to the rotational flex that can splay pads away from rims.