Brooks Swift vs Berthoud Aspin

[Josh Lubben]

Hi All!

For years I've been riding with Brooks B17 on multiple bikes and have always gotten along pretty well with that saddle comfort wise. About 2 years ago I swapped from a B17 to a Berthoud Aspin on my Homer and found the Berthoud to be even more comfortable for me, with better support for my sit bones and the narrower nose worked better for me. 

I have other bikes I'd like to swap to Berthouds, but they are expensive so I've also considered the Brooks Swift (not inexpensive but less expensive than the Berthoud) which seems to have a similar-ish shape to an Aspin. 

Anyone have experience with the Swift, Aspin/Aravis, or both and can share your experiences?

Thanks!

Josh 

[Bernard Duhon]

I have the b 17 on 5 bikes 

Tried the swift for a while & it did not work for me. 

Even tho at that point I was at the low end of an aggressive rider. 

It may be that the displeasure came to me moving to a more upright position. 

Yours sincerely,

 

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From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Josh Lubben <jtlu...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2026 12:25 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [RBW] Brooks Swift vs Berthoud Aspin

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[Brian Turner]

My ass sweats so much when I ride, that my saddle top get absolutely soaked. I've owned several B17s, and over the past 20 years, I've noticed that the newer models seem to have thinner leather, which in my situation results in a saddle that get increasingly "hammocky", and I'm wary of using the tightening bolt too much. About 5 years ago, I tried a Berthoud Aravis and was immediately in love. All the same comfort as a Brooks B17, but with thicker leather that holds its shape better. PLUS, you can swap out tops and rebuild everything if you need to. I now own a Berthoud Aravis, and Aspin, and I'm using a Mente on my Gus. I still own an old B17 Special that is nearly 20 years old, and I'll never get rid of it unless it just fails catastrophically.

Brian

Lexington KY

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[George Schick]

Brian - it's unfortunate that this happened to you with the B-17, but can you fill in a few details if you please?  Do you ride in a more bolt upright position with swept-back bars?  Have you transitioned from the B-17 to other saddles while riding with shorts of the same brand, texture, etc? Has the soaking of the B-17 taken place during hot Summer months whereas the saddle changes during cooler ones? 

Yes, you are correct that the Brooks saddles sold nowadays have thinner leather than ones made 30-40 years ago...the downside of some of those older models had leather so thick that it never softened up at all - I know because I owned one like that decades ago.

George

[Sally Bidleman]

After riding a B17 for years, I opted for a B17 short for one of my bikes. I didn't like it at all, and emailed the company that makes the Berthoud saddles. Really interesting! I ended up ordering a Berthoud Aspin (carved) that I use on my commuter bike and it really was comfortable for me from the get-go. Over a couple years, I ordered 2 Mente saddles from them for the other bikes. Also, very comfortable (and less expensive!). Aesthetically, my favorite is the brown Mente but they are all terrific...for me. I'm sure that doesn't mean that others would like them as well as I do...(My least favorite saddle was the debacle that was the B72. I don't think my husband has ever forgiven me for the effort he spent putting it on my bike....and then having to remove it when I said...well, won't say what I said, ha! Cheers to all you guys!)

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[Josh Lubben]

Thanks for the replies, all! Does anyone have experience with the Brook Swift? And any comparison of the Swift vs Aspin?

[Brian Turner]

George, my previous bikes that had B17s on them were all drop bar bikes. I don't ride "bolt upright", but fairly upright in the parlance of typical Rivendell philosophy. Drop bars are typically at level with my saddle nose. I sweat on long rides no matter the time of year, but especially in the warmer months. I typically wear synthetic shorts with wool boxers... never any sort of chamois (because of the sweat, having a wet sponge between me and my saddle just increases the likelihood of saddle sores and chafing).

My Gus is a very upright position of course, and it has the wider, "city" Berthoud - the Mente. I am currently building up a Sam, which will have upright, sweptback bars. I may throw my old B17 Special on it, because it seems to be one of the thicker-leather variety, and has held up very well over a couple of decades.

Brian

Lexington KY

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[Patch T]

Hiya! I have both (a Ti Swift and an Aravis) and really love them both. I use both with drop bars set one to a few cm below my saddle.

I tend to reach for my Aravis for longer rides. It just feels like there is more there to support my tush. The Ti Swift (which is lighter by some grams FYI) is used for shorter rides with harder efforts. It feels less chunky, more narrow. Still comfortable. They feel different but I love them both.

B17s remain mainly on my sweepy bar-ed bikes.

Patch in Oakland.

[Ben Miller]

Never ridden a Swift, but wanted to chime in and reinforce what Patch said; by my eye the Swift is much narrower and closer to a Berthoud Galibier than an Aspin/Avaris. I have a mix of B17's, Brook's Team Pros, and Aspin/Avaris in my stable. I feel like the Team Pro's are closest in fit to the Aspin/Avaris.

As far as leather thickness goes, it's sort of hard to measure, due to the natural variations and stretching during forming, but the Berthoud's do appear to be a bit thicker than the Brook's, something like 5+ mm for the Brooks vs 5.5 mm for the Berthoud's.* I didn't notice much variation between the Brook's models. Personally, I've never had much of an issue with sagging saddles, but maybe that extra 10% thickness might help if you do. I mostly prefer the look of Brook's saddles over Berthoud, but Berthoud has definitely improved upon the Brooks design and created an even more perfect saddle. But I think both are great. 

Anyways, my suggestion is if you find the Berthoud Aspin to be too pricey, try a Team Pro.

*I'd be interested if others can confirm this approximate measurement! It was a rough approximation based upon 3 Berthoud's and 5 or 6 Brooks.

[Patch T]

Agree with Ben - Aspin/Aravis is more like a Team Pro that has had the sides cut to be shorter (have one of those, too).

[Mike Rossi]

I have a couple of Swift’s and a Aspin. The Berthoud is currently on my Susie, and when I sit the Swift on top of it, the shape is almost identical with the Swift being ever so slightly more narrow. It may be that the leather sticks out on the Aspin just a bit more than the Swift. Like a millimeter. I ride both of them the same way I would a B17. With the nose up and the back end level with the ground. The nose on the Swift is also a little bit more narrow. Again, like by a millimeter. Unfortunately, I can’t give much more details to the differences as far as comfort. They’re both comfortable to me. I’m thinking that with the Swift you wouldn’t feel the leather, as much, on your inner thighs as you peddle as you would with the Aspin. Or something like that.

Mike

On Mar 25, 2026, at 5:19 PM, Patch T <ptro...@gmail.com> wrote:

Agree with Ben - Aspin/Aravis is more like a Team Pro that has had the sides cut to be shorter (have one of those, too).

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[Josh Lubben]

Ben and Patch - Thanks for the suggestion of the Team Pro! I hadn't considered that model, but I can see how that saddle more closely resembles the Aspin.

[George Schick]

Another one (Brooks) very similar to the Team Pro is their B17 Champion Narrow.  Pics of both attached. The Team Pro is on the left and the B17 Narrow in the right.  Advantage of the B17 is that it has bag loops.  An adapter would be needed for the Team Pro if you use a saddle bag.  DM me if you're interested in either.

[Nick Payne]

On Wednesday, 25 March 2026 at 12:04:27 am UTC+11 jtlu...@gmail.com wrote:

Thanks for the replies, all! Does anyone have experience with the Brook Swift? And any comparison of the Swift vs Aspin?

Yes, I've used both, though the Berthoud saddle was the Aravis, which is identical to the Aspin but with Ti rather than steel rails. The Aravis I found perfectly comfortable, I didn't like the Swift as I found it too narrow - it's narrower than the Aravis/Aspin. I no longer have the Swift (sold it) and I still have the Aravis.

Nick Payne