Installed Front Rack... PAIN IN THE REAR!
Rex Kerr
Steve Palincsar
> Tonight I started with the VO rack... what a pain in the rear! The
> welded on tang that connects to the fender daruma didn't allow my
> sidepull brakes to open enough to clear the 33.3 JB tires... so I had
> to refashion it... bending it (without breaking the weld!) was a slow
> and painful process...
Yes, you're meant to do that.
> I finally found a shape that worked, but man, that took longer than
> I'd expected to do the whole rack.
It's a constructeur rack, and you are the constructeur.
> Cutting everything and drilling the al fenders was a bit hairy, as I'm
> always afraid of misdrilling the fender and having an unsightly hole!
> I managed to drill the hole, but the screw didn't go all of the way
> in... I put a washer in between the fender and the rack to take up the
> extra space, but it rubbed on the tire... ugh... dremel out to grind
> the screw shorter, and I'm on my way again.... I FINALLY managed to
> get it on! It looks sharp, and the fender is much more solid now, but
> what a PITA!
Effort == results A rack like that is NOT "plug and play." Period.
David Spranger
Steve Palincsar
I have one on my Johnny Coast-built VO Randonneur
http://www.flickr.com/photos/97916047@N00/sets/72157606169015639/show/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/97916047@N00/2669029666/in/set-72157606169015639
It took several hours to install, and I learned a lot about working with
stainless steel I never knew. I had no idea ordinary hacksaws and
drills would make no impression on the stainless steel other than to
polish it, and it literally took over an hour to cut the tang and
another hour to drill it. I also had to bend, and then re-bend, the
tang.
It came at a great time: it was Monday, and I'd retired the Friday
previous. It did a lot to keep my mind off things. Totally involving,
and at the time, a great blessing. Pain in the rear? Not really; just
not even slightly "plug and play." As I said earlier, it's a
constructeur rack and you get to be the constructeur.
As for "it's made for this frame so it ought to fit," a friend of mine
has a small size production VO Randonneur. She had the rack installed
at her LBS, and it didn't fit. Took it to VO, and they had at it; had
to cut the tang off entirely to get it to fit.
You have to remember, this is not a custom rack. It's a production rack
and as such a compromise that can be made to fit most of these frames
really well, once you get done working it over. It doesn't fit all of
them equally well, and in the case of the really small sizes, the tang
doesn't fit at all.
Still, the VO Randonneur front rack is $80, $55 on sale right now. A
custom rack like the one on my MAP is $375. That rack was built to fit
my frame, and it fits as well as the paint on the frame. The builder
did all the work, and it's perfect in every way.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/97916047@N00/5979212331/in/set-72157627155309179
No hassle of any kind, but 5 - 7 times the price and it's available only
with the frame.
I'll bet the Rack Lady could build an equally perfect front handlebar
rack for your frame; she did a spectacular job with the porteur rack for
my P/R shopper. But, it took several months and I had to send her the
fork, and the cost will be comparable to the MAP custom rack.
If you have a bike that will fit the Nitto rack, it's an obvious choice.
The Gilles Berthoud rack is another fine choice; I had one of those on
my Saluki for several years. It's heavier than a custom rack, but at
$150 it's about half the cost (and about twice the price of the VO
rack).
David Spranger
Roy Yates
personal struggles with racks and fenders are typical.
Thanks,
...Roy
On Oct 14, 10:22 am, Steve Palincsar <palin...@his.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 2011-10-14 at 06:48 -0700, David Spranger wrote:
> > Installed that same rack on my wife's Betty Foy without too much
> > issue. However, I experienced the same type of frustrations as you
> > when I installed a VO Randonneur rack on my Rambouillet. Looks great
> > now, but it is never coming off again. I also installed this same rack
> > on a VO frame for a friend. It was not as difficult, but not as easy
> > as I would have expected being that it was designed with VO frames in
> > mind. I think the welded on tang is just not the best way to do this.
>
> It took several hours to install, and I learned a lot about working with
> stainless steel I never knew. I had no idea ordinary hacksaws and
> drills would make no impression on the stainless steel other than to
> polish it, and it literally took over an hour to cut the tang and
> another hour to drill it. I also had to bend, and then re-bend, the
> tang.
PATRICK MOORE
Riv: using it with the tang between fender and (in this case)
under-crown threaded boss meant a gap of several mm that reduced front
tire room and, when I installed the 32 mm Kojacks, pushed the fender
bolt onto the tire. I had to cut and bend the tang to fit between
caliper and crown on the brake mounting bolt, but now all is well. For
$55, I don't mind a bit of work and it's a very nice rack for the
money.
On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 9:00 AM, Roy Yates <royd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This thread really cheered me up. It's comforting to learn that my
> personal struggles with racks and fenders are typical.
> Thanks,
--
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact
Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
Steve Palincsar
> I had similar problems getting the VO Randonneur to work with the '03
> Riv: using it with the tang between fender and (in this case)
> under-crown threaded boss meant a gap of several mm that reduced front
> tire room and, when I installed the 32 mm Kojacks, pushed the fender
> bolt onto the tire. I had to cut and bend the tang to fit between
> caliper and crown on the brake mounting bolt, but now all is well. For
> $55, I don't mind a bit of work and it's a very nice rack for the
> money.
You are now an official Constructeur...
Tim McNamara
> didn't solve my problem with the Al fenders moving from side to side and rubbing on the tire during climbs
I can't think of any mechanism that would cause the rear fender to move when climbing, unless you're getting a huge amount of frame flex. I have seen situations where the front fender hits the tire due to fork flex, usually right at the front end of the fender.
My hunch is that this is occurring when you climb standing.
If it's the rear wheel, I think what was happening is that your fender is too close to the tire (there should be 8-10 mm clearance from the tire at its closest point) and that as the wheel flexes while you climb the tire rubs. The point of contact is probably on the left (non-drive side) near the brake bridge. Rear wheels flex is a slight potato chip shape as we climb standing; we rock the bike which introduces side loads and the pedaling torque on the drive side spoke tightens the trailing spoke and slackens the leading spoke, causing the rim to move. This can cause the rim to hit the brake pad, usually the one on the left, and a fender if the fender is too close. This is less likely to happen with a tight wheel (but a tight wheel is more likely to crack the rim around the spoke holes, since rim design has been drastically dumbed down in the past 15 years; a tight rear wheel may make a bike less likely to shimmy, as well).
Back in my racing days on climbs you'd hear this "vrrrt vrrrt vrrrt" noise as the peloton climbed from rims hitting brake pads due to wheel flex. The became more prevalent after the introduction of dual pivot brakes which need to have the pads set close to the rim. Pro cyclists will sometimes reach back and release the rear brake when doing long climbs to prevent this. Campy came out with a dial pivot front/single pivot rear brake setup a few years back which I think was intended to prevent this problem.
Steve Palincsar
> On Oct 14, 2011, at 1:49 AM, Rex Kerr wrote:
>
> > didn't solve my problem with the Al fenders moving from side to side and rubbing on the tire during climbs
>
> I can't think of any mechanism that would cause the rear fender to move when climbing, unless you're getting a huge amount of frame flex. I have seen situations where the front fender hits the tire due to fork flex, usually right at the front end of the fender.
>
> My hunch is that this is occurring when you climb standing.
>
>
> Back in my racing days on climbs you'd hear this "vrrrt vrrrt vrrrt" noise as the peloton climbed from rims hitting brake pads due to wheel flex. The became more prevalent after the introduction of dual pivot brakes which need to have the pads set close to the rim. Pro cyclists will sometimes reach back and release the rear brake when doing long climbs to prevent this. Campy came out with a dial pivot front/single pivot rear brake setup a few years back which I think was intended to prevent this problem.
I'll bet you're right. It can happen in front, too, perhaps from fork
flex.
Rex Kerr
On Oct 14, 2011, at 1:49 AM, Rex Kerr wrote:I can't think of any mechanism that would cause the rear fender to move when climbing, unless you're getting a huge amount of frame flex. I have seen situations where the front fender hits the tire due to fork flex, usually right at the front end of the fender.
> didn't solve my problem with the Al fenders moving from side to side and rubbing on the tire during climbs
Minh
simple it is to install the Nitto racks on almost any bike. But they
have a different look then the VO racks which are cleaner looking
since they don't have as much adjustment for bike variance.
I wish VO were a little more explicit about the amount of work
required to fit the racks to some bikes. If you need to pull out a
hacksaw, powerdrill, vise and hammer to install something, well i
don't think that's a bolt-on solution :). Maybe i was just naive and
over-looked how much work that would actually be.
I love the look of the vo constructeur racks, in fact i just bought a
rear to match my front even though i have a perfectly good rear rack
on there now. I'm not looking forward to 'installing' the rear, as my
bike does not have fenders so i'm using the bolt-on tang for the rear
which will require bending as well...
Rex on the fender swaying, i had this issue too on my SH + Campee
front, which does not have a bolt-hole on the rack to secure the
fender, i did it using a daruma bolt and zipties. Having fitted this
bike with 2 different front racks, i can't figure out how people with
metal fenders can keep the swaying down without securing the fender at
the front edge. the daruma in the fork crown always has some slippage
for me.
Scott G.
so it is possible to engineer these things to fit easily.
Rex Kerr
The Nitto M-12 front rack is a 5-10min to instal/remove on my Ebisu All Purpose,
so it is possible to engineer these things to fit easily.
Stuart Fletcher
> I have to agree with everyone else, i think we are all spoiled by how
> simple it is to install the Nitto racks on almost any bike.
The Nitto M12 (& its sister M13) don't have provisions for adjustment
but are still easy to install -- cantilever brakes only however.
> [....] i can't figure out how people with
> metal fenders can keep the swaying down without securing the fender at
> the front edge. the daruma in the fork crown always has some slippage
> for me.
For the best performance and long life metal fenders *need* support at
the front edge. It's much more secure & robust that way. If you
can't attach the fender to a front rack then an additional stay can be
used. There's a reason the French did it that way. Not saying you
can't get away with no support forward of the fork crown, but the
fender isn't fully supported without it.
FWIW I bought a VO "constructeur" front rack a couple years ago and
gave up on it before I even started to try to fit it to a bike.
Anyone who goes through the work to fit one of those up definitely has
my respect. I'm Nitto M-12s on all my front-racked bikes...
Stuart Fletcher
Seattle, WA
Tim McNamara
Yep, I get some front fender rub on one of my bikes when climbing standing. There's just not enough clearance under the fork and the front brake, so one edge of the fender is about 2 mm from the tire. The fork will flex enough when I climb or ride out of the saddle to rub just a bit. At least I am assuming it is fork flex.
Tim McNamara
Huh. Interesting. With many aluminum fenders the attachment under the fork is a bolt through a hole rather than a tab as on a plastic fender. I suppose that can let the fender rotate with the bolt as the axis. IIRC there's supposed to be a rubber washer between the fender and the fork crown, presumably to stop rattles and to impede the fender from moving.
Rex Kerr
Huh. Interesting. With many aluminum fenders the attachment under the fork is a bolt through a hole rather than a tab as on a plastic fender. I suppose that can let the fender rotate with the bolt as the axis. IIRC there's supposed to be a rubber washer between the fender and the fork crown, presumably to stop rattles and to impede the fender from moving.
Tim McNamara
Ah. I am too lazy to run down to the parts box and check but my recollection of that the crown attachment (for Japanese alloy fenders) is 1" consistent with the diameter of the head tube. I wonder if 1" ring spacers such as for a 1" threadless stem would work better.
pruckelshaus
Benedikt
messing with it before I got it to run quiet. Then after a few months
there suddenly came a rattle. It was one of the screws coming loose.
All the screws got a dose of Loctite after that. No problems for
several hundred miles since. Those babies are solid. It was all
worth it. Of course I have canti's on my SH so no problems there. VO
Constructeur on the back and Nitto Campy up front.
Don't forget the thread locker!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/neutralbuoyancy/5551209249/in/set-72157607896493013
Steve Palincsar
>
> I wish VO were a little more explicit about the amount of work
> required to fit the racks to some bikes. If you need to pull out a
> hacksaw, powerdrill, vise and hammer to install something, well i
> don't think that's a bolt-on solution :).
I think they were quite clear. Quoting from the instructions:
> The tang on the rear of the rack is best attached to the fender boss under the fork crown (if your bike has a boss).
> Bend the tang down and back so it fits between the fender and the fork crown. Check that the rack is level and
> mark and drill the tang. Make a punch mark to help you start the hole and use a new drill bit; the stainless steel
> is very hard. Cut off any excess with a hacksaw and file the end so it’s smooth.
Bending and drilling are very clearly marked, and a comment is included about stainless steel. Nowhere do I see anything that says "bolt-on solution," so if anyone suggested it, it would have been you, and not Velo Orange. How much more explicit would you have liked them to be? I strongly suspect you didn't read the instructions, either before purchase or after, and if that's the case it's entirely your fault.