Building a Sam Hillborne

[Peter Stock]

I have acquired a Sam Hillborne frame. 
Maybe it's been the long winter. I don't know what.
But I am stumped as to how to build it up. (I am ashamed now to realize that while I have owned dozens of bikes, almost all have been completes. I have rarely built one up from a bare frame.)
Worse (or maybe Better) I have a big collection of spare parts to choose from everything from 6S downtube to 9S speed click shifting, Campagnolo and Shimano. I have about 35-50 of each bit - BB, FD, RD, shifters, cranks....

Some advice could be helpful.
I'll post my spreadsheet here in case anyone wants to look (BTW everything is for sale too. but that's not the point of this post, really. It's more that people can only guide me if they know what my choices are)

https://tinyurl.com/2vhm38sn

Barend shifters or handlebar mounter STI/Ergo "Click" shifters?

Compact double or a Triple crankset.? (my riding will be mostly paved country roads, maybe some packed gravel, not overly hilly.)
Drop bars (I have TONS of drop bars) or moustache bars (I don't have any really)? I generally prefer drop bars for all riding situations.

Anyway, rather than wandering aimlessly around in the garage randomly plucking parts from my bins, I'm all ears for a more coherent approach.

Peter Stock
Toronto Canada 

[aeroperf]

Dang, that is a big collection of spare parts.

Your problem with this thread is going to be the fact that everybody has an opinion.  People “like” different things, and will be proponents of them.
So what you need to do first is figure out what YOU like.  and that is going to be hard.
You like drop bars, so… drop bars.  Except, if you’ve never tried mustache or albatross bars, maybe you should try one set.  And lots of folks will be posting saying “Yes!  Straight bars!”.

I like Osprey bars, bar-ends, triple cranksets, and 9-speed rears.  I have good reasons for each choice, but your riding and reasons WILL be different.

So let’s start here:

1.  Pick something you are comfortable with that you have multiple selections for.  And based on your spreadsheet, that won’t be limiting.  So just pick one - 3x9 and bar-ends on drops, for instance.  What have you liked before?
2.  Download the information for the parts you have.  I know Shimano has posted Shop Manuals, User’s Manuals, and Exploded Views for EVERYTHING.  I’m kind of thinking Campi does, too.
3.  Go through the data and find the bits that go together  The right chainline.  The right throw and shape (2x derailleurs have a different  throw and shape from 3x derailleurs, for instance).  The right brake reach.  The right rims for your riding style, and hubs for your accessories.
4.  Order anything you really want and don’t have, and build it up, and go try it.  That will at least get you a complete bike you can use as a base.
5.  Modify anything you don’t like.  Over and over.  If you get stuck, post here.

And enjoy the process!  The wonderful thing about a Sam is that it succeeds for almost any set of choices.

[velomann]

Two thoughts - from someone who just built up a new dark gold Sam this fall (my first Rivendell but I've built up a lot of bikes from bare frames.)

First, I prefer downtube shifters on all my drop bar bikes. That's just me. It's what I'm most comfortable with, it gives me the opportunity to take my hands off the bars on a regular basis, and unlike brake/shift combos they rarely break or need servicing. However, the Sam does not have downtube bosses, so while that's not an insurmountable thing, it makes it a no-go for me. 

Second, I built my own 24/38 wide/low crankset with bash guard out of a Sugino XD triple I had - broke off, ground and filed the teeth on an old outer ring. I run it with an Ultegra long-cage RD and 9-speed 11-34 cassette and it gives me all the high and low I could ever want for this bike. 

btw, I'm running Bosco bars and a right Microshift thumbie. But I'm planning on creating a 2nd cockpit I can swap in with a 46cm Noodle bar and it will use a barend shifter.

Mike M

[Collin A]

You ask how to build up a bike, and as others have mentioned there are many "good" ways to build up a bike and I'd argue there are almost no "bad" ways to build a bike, as long as it works (exaggerating a bit, but you get my point)! You have loads of parts, so really it seems like you could build up just about anything.

A few questions to get your mental gears turning:

1. Do you want it to be like your other bikes or something different (to take advantage of building from the ground up)?

2. Whats the typical ride going to be for the bike? Fully loaded on rough trails, smooth pavement and a days worth of food, or somewhere in between?

3. Are there any items you MUST include? I ask because sometimes you have a really nice pair of _____ that you want to use (and you seem to have TONS of parts...).

Personally, I recently converted my Joe to a dirt-drop bar slick 650x50 bike and LOVE it. 2x9 with friction bar ends are quite fun, but can't say they are any better than my 2x11 STI on my 700x38 gravel bike, or the 1x11 flat bar setup that was on it before. They are all fun and all worth trying in my opinion. 

Good luck!

Collin in Sacramento

On Friday, February 26, 2021 at 11:25:22 AM UTC-8 lug...@gmail.com wrote:

[Mark Allen]

I built up my Sam with Noodle drop bar, fairly wide 2x10 gearing with friction bar end shifting, and big 44mm tires. It's handled any conditions I've come across in the Toronto / southern Ontario area so well that I barely touched my other bikes last year. City riding, country roads, dirt roads, gravel, even some mild single track underbiking - it's just been a delight.

But I really wish I hadn't seen your parts list, because the only thing stopping me from starting half a dozen projects floating around my head is the covid bike part shortage. To know that such a stockpile exists locally is dangerous!

Mark

Toronto

[Peter Stock]

Thanks Collin.
I am not sure if your questions were just rhetorical but I'll reply anyway.
1. the SH doesn't have to be like anything else I own (which are mostly vintage steel with either 6S DT shifting or 8S STI "Click" shifting) but I do generally prefer drop bars for all kinds of riding - city, country, paved, gravel....
I have several Bike Friday folding bikes for instance and while many BF owners have and prefer flat or "H" style bars, I always seem to want drops. though I only ever ride on the top flats and upper corners (75%) or (25% on the brake hoods)
2. Rrides will be day trips 2h+ on country roads, many paved, some packed gravel. (Though we have converted rail trails around here too. too rough for my skinny tired bikes. ) Usually unloaded, just for exercise. Never fully loaded I don't think. Maybe local utility rides with a rear pannier or a big Carradice saddle bag.
3. Must Have Items? not really. I am not very fussy about my builds. I usually take 'em as I get 'em and just jump on and ride (i usually don't even swap out a stem unless it is WAY off my size.)

I think I am leaning 9S barend shifters. surprisingly I don't have any but I have a line on a pair. I've tried  barends on a Bike Friday once and while many would write them off as low end, I remember finding that build elegantly simple. And I ride a lot of DT shifter builds and so not being on the bars all the time does not fuss me.

I have a Triple Biopace crankset I might slap on here. TBD.

Then I have a LC Deore RD, a variety of Clamp FDs. (I might be narrowing things down.)

WHEELS: One item I don't have and am unfamiliar with are fat tires and wheels with the wider rims (I assume) that would take 38-50mm tires. I have dozens of wheels sets but will with fairly narrow traditional road rims for 23 to 28mm max tires. So there I will have to do some research.
Similarly I am unfamiliar with 650 wheels and tires. Will a SH take 650 wheels?

(I'm sorry to sound so dense about the details of Rivendell bikes. I know the Rivendell name by reputation of course but I've never had one or pursued one. This frame though kind of just fell into my lap. at first glane, when I measured it up as a "59cm" ctc, I wrote it off as too small for me. Only once I put it on wheels did I realise that the TT was sloping and so this was actually the largest SH frame they made and measured about a 65cm Eff ST. and so was my size and so I should try to build it up.)

On Friday, February 26, 2021 at 10:29:16 PM UTC-5 Collin A wrote:

[Jason Fuller]

I'll echo what's been said already, that's an unbelievable collection of parts.  Wow.  

I love the wide variety of handlebars out there today and I would run dozens of them on different bikes, but for me, the Hillborne should run one of two bars:  Nitto Albatross or Nitto Noodle, and of course this depends on whether you want it to be an upright bar bike, or a drop bar bike. In either case it should run Dura Ace bar end shifters (9spd or 10spd), and a Shimano drivetrain with wide range (double or triple, and at least an 11-32 cassette). I don't mean these as limitations, it's just how I would build a Sam over and over again.  The irony is I'm running Campy on my own Sam, but if I were to do it again, this would be what I'd do.  

Simple but effect parts go the furthest on a Sam imo. Here's what I would do: 

- Deore or XT hubs to Velocity Atlas rims (optional: SP dynamo front hub) 
- Velo Orange fenders with whatever tires tickle your fancy (I'd run the Rene Herse tire of suitable size in standard casing)

- Bar-end shifters operating Shimano Deore-level derailleurs

- Sugino triple crankset, Shimano 11-32-ish cassette

- MKS pedals of your choosing
- Nitto Albatross handlebar attached to a Technomic / Tallux stem 

- Paul Racer centerpulls (expensive, but a good place to put extra money) 

- Nitto Marks rack up front; maybe an RBW51 out back 

[velomann]

A small note of caution regarding 9-speed DA bar-end shifters and triple cranks. I have 3 or 4 pairs and I learned through trial and error that there are sets designed for a double crank and sets designed for a triple. The triple has, I believe, a gray plastic collar, while the double is black. The left gray shifter has more throw than the black one. 

If anyone out there knows differently, please chime in.

Mike M

[Zac Terrones]

@velomann (i have no idea how to quote reply on this forum)

On the Sam that Riv built for me the bar ends are grey and I'm running a double just fine. 

[velomann]

"On the Sam that Riv built for me the bar ends are grey and I'm running a double just fine. "

That makes sense. The gray bar-ends have enough throw you can run a double just fine (my usual application). It's just a matter of setting the limit screws. It's when you try to shift a triple with a unit designed for a double that you will run into issues. In my experience the gray will shift anything; the black will not.

Mike M