Drop Bar Newbie Qs

[Smitty-A-Go-Go]

I've always had straight or upright bars. Went with mustache bars when I bought my Hilsen in September. I've been riding the M's for half a year and don't hate them but haven't fallen in love with them either. I've decided it's time to try a different handlebar. I suspect I may be on the path to being an early adopter of the New Bar. In the mean time... I've been sitting on a 48cm noodle bar bought off the list here. Today I removed the M's and put on the noodles.  I tried them out with 2 stems... 7cm and 9cm. 

My riding style/pace is pretty casual so I imagine most of my riding will be on the tops or on the hoods.

With the 7cm stem the tops are kinda too close but not deal-breader bad, the hoods are fine and the drops are close/comfortable enough that I could see myself using them.

With the 9cm stem the tops are in a great place, the hoods seem like a good aggressive position, but the drops are so far forward that I'm not sure I would use them hardly ever. 

These are all first impressions from a couple laps around the block by a guy who's only ever ridden drops a few times on friends' bikes. 

I would love to hear people's opinion's on balancing the aggressive vs leisurely positions/set-up on a drop bar.  This may all be a moot point If I go with the New Bar next month but it's fun to fiddle with for now.   

--Smitty 

[eflayer]

Noodles are a lovely shape, but the drops are pretty deep. I had them on a number of bikes, but nearly never rode in the drops. Now all my bikes are sporting compact bars from FSA. The reach to tops and hoods is definitely shorter than Noodles, but with shorter reach to the drops, and more extension of the drop rearward, for the first time in my later years, I ride in the drops on a regular basis. I sometimes wish for a longer flat section approaching the hoods, but FSA Omega compact bars suit me quite well. Omegas are made only for 31.8 bars, but Soma and Origin 8 and others make them for 26.0. Oh yeah, some think compact bars don't look cool and traditional and I agree. But we make choices.

[Jay in Tel Aviv]

Smitty,

I'm in a similar situation with Noodles. I'm pretty sure the stem
length on my Sam is right for me at 8 cm (down from 10), but I can't
figure out if I want to adjust the height up or down.

As it is, the hoods are good but perhaps a bit high. But I wouldn't
mind the drops a little higher.
I was thinking about Albas, but maybe a more differently shaped drop
bar would make more sense.

Jay

[Brian Hanson]

I'm transitioning to drop bars for the rando season, and I've decided that the drops are there for wind and stretching the back only (for me).  I generally ride on the hoods, or on the flat curves on my similar Nitto B115 (deep drops).  The flats to hoods give me as much real-estate as my Porteur bars (albeit stretching the other way).  With enough bar height, and the right reach, I'm fine in the neck and hands dept, and always have the drops if I'm heading into a nasty headwind and need to get more aero, or more power.

Brian

Seattle

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[newenglandbike]

I've tried lots of different drop bars on various bikes and Noodles always feel the best to me. With both noodles and traditional drop bars-  when set up with the right reach-  I find that when you're riding along on the hoods, and decide you want to move to the drops or hooks, they feel excessively low and forward at first.    But if you give it five minutes in that position, your body gets used to it, and it becomes quite comfortable.   

After riding along settled in the hooks for a while, suddenly you have the opposite problem-   moving to the hoods makes you feel bolt-upright, and you feel momentarily as though your bars are too high.     But give it five minutes....

I guess the hard part is finding the right reach, where the tops/hoods and the hooks feel right for their purpose.    But as drop bars go, Noodles have the best proportions IMHO.


-Matt

[Jay in Tel Aviv]

Matt,

Your description is perfect.


Jay

[Michael Hechmer]

Smitty, your note doesn't say how hi the bars are in relationship to the saddle, but you describe the hoods as feeling "aggressive".  I ride on the drops quite a bit because I find it shifts the weight on the saddle and gives my back a change.  But my bike is set up with the hoods in a comfortable position and the drops in an aggressive one.   Also, for me at least, being on the drops means being at the very end of the bar, with my fingers almost touching the BE shifters.  So, to get this I have the bars about 2cm (3/4") below the saddle, but others might find a different height gives them this feel.  The only downside I have found to raising drop bars, even above the saddle is that it seems to reduce leverage to rock the bike while standing up.  If you don't stand up, and as I age I do it less & less, then I would think the longer stem set higher will bring the hoods into a more comfortable position and make the drops more reachable.

Keep the rubber side down,

michael

[Bill M.]

I'm another fan of the 'compact' bar shape, but like eflayer I found
the curve at the ramp of the FSA Omega has such a broad radius that
the straight top section is too narrow. I swapped it for the 3T
Ergosum which has a tighter bend and solves that problem. It's also
only sold in black and 31.8, maybe not too attractive on a Hilsen but
fine on my mcrb.

The Soma Hwy 1 might be the answer for the OP - available in 26.0 with
a nice polished finish, short reach so when the tops are set right the
hoods aren't miles out, shallow drop so the low position is usable.
They bumped the Noodle off of my Riv Road.

Bill

[PATRICK MOORE]

Smitty -- correct bar height and reach are the keys to drop bar comfort. I personally like Noodles (though narrow ones) when they are high and forward since I get the best of an upright position on the flats, a comfortable cruising position on ramps and hoods, and an agressive anti-wind position on the hooks - we get a *lot* of wind, so this is imperative. I've set up my Fargo with Noodles set considerably higher than the more agressive position on my Riv road bikes, where I much prefer the very shallow drop Maes Parallels.While the Rivs are very comfortable for up to 30 miles (my typical distance) the Fargo is good off road and is what I would use for touring.

Photos here: https://picasaweb.google.com/BERTIN753/BIKESMISCELLANEA#

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[Smitty-A-Go-Go]

Bar height (which I interpret as stem clamp center) is an inch above saddle height. 

I should also point out that my idea of an "aggressive" position is likely skewed by my riding relatively upright cargo bikes 5 days a week.  

I kind of knew this going in but it sounds like my best bet is to pick a stem, wire the brakes and go for a ride longer than around the block to see what happens when I get used to the set-up.  

[Matthew J]

Keep in mind Noodles are designed with relatively high stem in mind.

I have Albatross bars on the bike I ride most often, Jitensha bars on
another and what Riv used to sell as Nitto Dream bars on the third.
Mark's bars appear close, but the drop appears a bit more than on
mine.

If you want bars with generous flats but not as much drop as the
Noodles look at the Grand Bois Maes bars (manufactured by Nitto) that
Compass Cycle sells.

[Jeremy Till]

The only thing I would add to all of this is be mindful not only of bar position but also seat height and setback.  After years of playing around with different drop bars, bar heights, stem lengths, top tube lengths, etc, I've recently started paying more attention to saddle position.  It's true that drop bars will pull your center of gravity forward compared to upright bars, but you can compensate for this by moving your saddle back some; I've found doing so allows me to still ride "light on the hands" even though I'm more stretched out.  Once I discovered this, variances in bar/stem reach, height, top tube length etc. seem to make less of a difference for overall comfort.

This is especially an issue for me since I have long legs (i.e. femurs) and long feet (size 50 european)...plus I'm not all that skinny....so I really need to get way back there in order not to be riding on my arms.  In fact, I've gone to a saddle most/all of the way back on a Nitto Wayback (S-84) post to generate a truly Lemond-esque riding position on my road bike, which has a 72-72.5 degree seat tube angle, depending on the position of the wheel in the dropouts.

If you're interested, I'd recommend reading the older article by Keith Bontrager--"The Myth of KOPS"--that's posted on Sheldon's site.  In my mind, it's got some really sound reasoning about the relationship between center of gravity and pedaling position.

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Never really heard or found that the Noodles/Soba were designed for higher position.  They will definitely work higher, but I think that has more to do with the design of the bend and the sweep on the flats.  I've always run bars a bit lower than the saddle, and the Noodle was the most costly bar I ever bought - specifically because it ruined me for any other drop handlebar.   Ended up switching over all my bicycles to the Noodle/Soba.

To Smitty's original observation, I'd tend to favor the shorter stem.  My personal bias is to use the tops as a place of easy comfort - so a couple cm's closer would let me relax my elbows just a little bit more when rolling along.  You can always reach onto the hoods if you need to stretch out. To my great surpise, I ended up tweaking my Hilsen fit with a shorter stem - and it was only a 10 mm difference with the QB. 

Hope that helps,

- Jim

[PATRICK MOORE]

The Maeses are beautiful (I have the Parallels on my 2 Rivs) and they are nicer in finish than even the Noodles; but they come only in narrow widths; I think 41 at the hoods is the widest (they do flare a bit).

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[PATRICK MOORE]

Once again, start with saddle position. Jeremy is right in that your bar position and type will affect your saddle, but mostly for tilt -- I expect that sit up and beg positions require even more saddle setback, if anything -- look at the st angles on English and Dutch utility bikes. See Peter Jon White for fitting tips, starting with saddle position. It's the key!

A correct saddle lets you bend forward easily with little weight on your arms and hands resting lightly on the bar whether on flats, ramps, hoods or hooks.

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[Minh]

Given all of the input on this, i think the one thing you can take
away is that all handle bars are an acquired taste. I have noodles on
my hillborne and love them, but then i have bikes with albas, dreams,
moustaches, etc, and all of the bars have been on various bikes.
THere are certain combinations of bike+bar that i just did not care
for and there are pairings that feel perfect, so i'd suggest you
follow the recommendations to experiment, but it could come to the
point that this bike and bar are just not to your style.

[Jay in Tel Aviv]

Glad to knw I'm not the only one still fiddling with saddle and
handlebar setups after all these years.

I'm used to shoving my Brooks all the way back, but I recently decided
that was too much with the slack seat tube and VO setback post on my
Sam.

I found that I'm happier with it pushed forward a cm or so. Helps with
reach to the bars too, although that's not why I did it. Still haven't
checked for KOPS.

The other saddle adjustment that's making me a bit nuts lately is
right/left orientation. Always seems to be just a little off one way
or the other. Maybe the B17 is too wide with Noodles at saddle height.

I'm sure I'll work it all out in another 10 years or so.

Jay

[PATRICK MOORE]

Amen to this!

Try it out, change it, sell those that don't work, then buy replacements at much more cost when you figure out that, after all, you *did* like that combination -- or, at least, want to try it again. I've done this with M-bars at least half a dozen times; ditto for many different kinds of WTB-type flared drops. The same with saddles (Brookses of various kinds cost me much $$ but failed to satisfy) and pedals [spent $$$ on clips 'n' straps but eventually came back to SPDs {Shimano only, no damn' clones}) and Looks.])}])>.

However, when all is said and done, me, I keep coming back to relatively shallow drop, 3 cm below saddle, narrow bars on road and 2" higher, slightly wider drops for my off road bikes. 

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[Smitty-A-Go-Go]

Thanks for all the replies, comments and advice.  

Those Grand Bois bars are intriguing. If I were buying bars today, those would be on the short list. I’m going to ride the bars I have for now (48cm Noodles) and get a feel for what my drop bar preferences are.  Perhaps next time I get fidgety the GBs will get ordered.

After reading everything here I went with the 7cm stem set about an inch above the saddle. It’s funny how when I was in “analytical” mode going back and forth between a 7cm stem and a 9cm stem I was noticing all sorts of little differences. Not that those differences don’t matter, but so often it’s more a case of getting lost in a world of looking for “better” or “worse” when in fact they’re just different and either will work fine.

Anyway, I went with the 7cm, quit over analyzing, and went for a ride. I’ve actually gotten out for a couple short rides and like the set-up more each time. It’ll be interesting to try narrower bars after I’m good and used to these.

On a sort of related note... I was feeling a bit tinker-y this weekend and in addition to the new bar set-up I hacked a few add-ons to the “Double-Double Homer” as my kids call it. The first is something that I’m sure has been done before, but I’ve never seen it... a light bar for the front of my platrack. The second mod is how I cheated my way into being able to go for a ride today... a kid seat on my rear rack so my 3-year-old could ride on the back of the AHH.   

Relevant pics here.

Happy pedaling.

--Smitty

[Steve Palincsar]

On Mon, 2012-02-27 at 20:00 -0800, Smitty-A-Go-Go wrote:
>
> Those Grand Bois bars are intriguing. If I were buying bars today,
> those would be on the short list. I’m going to ride the bars I have
> for now (48cm Noodles) and get a feel for what my drop bar preferences
> are. Perhaps next time I get fidgety the GBs will get ordered.

If you like a 48cm Noodle I can't imagine your liking any Grand Bois
handlebar. They are all, even the widest, dramatically narrower than
that Noodle.

[Smitty-A-Go-Go]

I wasn't too keen on any drop bars before a few days ago. The 48 noodles were bought on a whim off the list here and sat untouched for several weeks. My whole thought process was something like: "Since all my other bars are at least this wide maybe wide drop bars would smooth the transition to drop bars." It wasn't until I decided I was going to give drops an honest try and actually put them on my bike and rode them a little that I really gave any more thought to what features/sizes I might actually prefer in a drop bar. I'm fine with the 48s for now.  But that's sort of like saying I'm fine with Skippy peanut butter before I ever try Adams... or any other peanut butter.   

Regarding the 48s I have already noticed that they're not as sporty feeling as I initially thought. Perhaps that's just my getting used to them after a few miles. I can imagine swapping the 48s out for something narrower... if only as an experiment.  When/if I do, I'll surely post about it.

--Smitty

[PATRICK MOORE]

FWIW, I find the 42 Noodles that I just swapped out for the original
46s (thanks, Dylan) more comfortable than the wider ones. They feel
more natural. And, as I said, the Maes Parallel copies at (I think)
38s flaring to 41 or so, are the bees' knees. (Or is that "bee's
knees"?)

Note that Velo Orange sells the less elegant but substantially the
same Grand Cru Course bar for $50 compared to the GB's $89, and the VO
models come in wider sizes: 42 to 46 versus 37 to 39. (Both VO and GB
bars are slightly flared at the ends.)

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