Sugino chainring swap as easy as this Rivideo makes it look?

[Lungimsam]

Is there anything else I need to know?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=09NxISvfHwE

[Michael Hechmer]

Yesssss.  First, when you insert the crank bolt extractor make sure you thread it all the way in.  You are relying on those threads to break the bond between the crank and the BB.  Second. if you are working with a Sugino crank, as shown on the video, keep in mind that you are working with the most awkward crank on the market, so as you work to get that hidden bolt in, be patient.  Third, as you tighten the remaining bolts be sure to work on opposing bolts, as they do in the video.  Otherwise one bolt can feel tight as it creates a tiny space on the adjacent bolt. 

Michael

[dougP]

I've always used anti-sieze in place of grease. Seems to last forever. Never had any problems even after years.

Doug p

[Lungimsam]

Thanks. two more questions:

1.Just push on the crank and tighten like Mark does? No need to worry about torque spec? It will settle in the original place on the spindle? Only reason I mention that is because I think one of the Randonneurs on this forum said he messed up his spindle by overtightening or something?

2. Grease the spindle, too when putting the crankarm back on? 

[Joe Bernard]

1. I've never used a torque wrench, but I've been doing this stuff as long as Mark has and probably have am internal torque sensor in my head. Torque wrenches are a good thing.

2. No grease on square taper spindles. It encourages installing the crank too hard to the point of splitting it.

[dougP]

Point of dis-agreement. I use anti-sieze on the spindle, and short wrenches to avoid over-tightening. Valid point about over-tightening; it's easy to do. It's a bicycle, not a bulldozer; easy does it, esp with aluminum.

Doug p

[Joe Broach]

​

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 4:08 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

2. No grease on square taper spindles. It encourages installing the crank too hard to the point of splitting it.

I think it's not a big deal either way, but here's Jobst on the subject, via Sheldon: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/installing-cranks.html

I also would be really surprised if you could split a crank by driving it up the taper with normal hand tools. Take your time, and think about what you're doing. This is one place you can really mess things* up, but you probably won't!

Best,

joe

pdx or

* mainly the extraction threads (not getting the tool threaded in properly) or crank arm taper (by failing to get up to torque)

​​

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 4:08 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

1. I've never used a torque wrench, but I've been doing this stuff as long as Mark has and probably have am internal torque sensor in my head. Torque wrenches are a good thing.

2. No grease on square taper spindles. It encourages installing the crank too hard to the point of splitting it.

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[Joe Bernard]

Or you can grease the spindle. That's always an option.

[Michael Hechmer]

The grease or not to grease debate reverberates in the bike world, and there are many smart people who say no grease.  I have gone back and forth over 35 years of bike wrenching but my personal experience says not to grease. I have never damaged a crank by over tightening it.   I have had two arms come loose, presumably from being under tightened.  And recently I lost a 30 year old left side arm, which may not have been off the spindle in many years, while trying to remove it.  The spindle was ungreased and the threads on both the crank and bolt stripped out before the seal got broken.  So now I think grease is a good idea.  I don't use  a torque wrench either but only because I find it too awkward to tighten the crank bolt and read the scale at the same time.  However, at 72 I find it necessary to use a decent size ratchet and not just an allen key to get some leverage on the bolt.

Michael

[ascpgh]

Loosening seems to be on account of the plastic nature of the aluminum arm on the less so steel spindle under the stresses of pedaling, and the subsequent loss of preload torque of the bolt.

I recall cheaper, softer alloy arms loosening with predictability. Maybe that alloy was more plastic to the connection, transmission of force and loss of preload. Those reps of loosening and being torqued down again gave the impression of reaming out the hole, bringing the arm father down the taper until reaching the end, no longer producing secure fitment, wiggling under load despite more torque.

The ones that never seem to lose torque were more resistant to the crank extractor. Being of better quality alloy and of a long expected service life, I found myself in the anti-sieze compound camp on my spindles. I cannot recall the last time I needed to add torque to my TA Zephyr arms or the Suntour XC Pros on my commuter.

 Regarding Sheldon's admonish that any left crank arm will do; the weirdness of dissimilar arms under a standing pedal load did not escape me when testing such a repairs in the past. A get-by fix, but not a rap one for me.

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh 

[Ron Mc]

I have a nice torque wrench, so I use it on BB and cranks.  When I've gone back and checked, I've never had a relaxed crank bolt.  

Keep up with chainring bolt tightness, though...

So far, the only chainring bolts that have never become loose on me were factory-torqued Campy.  

[RichS]

I share Michael's to grease or not to grease quandary. My solution has been to apply an ultra thin bit of grease to the tapers. Splitting the difference I guess. So far so good. A torque wrench and patience gives me peace of mind too.

Best of luck,

Richard

On Tuesday, May 24, 2016 at 6:10:04 PM UTC-4, Lungimsam wrote:

[Lungimsam]

So for my Sugino XD600 crank and my Shimano square taper bb spindle I just need this, an allen wrench, and a chain ring bolt wrench to get the job done?

 http://www.parktool.com/product/crank-puller-for-square-taper-cranks-ccp-22?category=Crank & Bottom Bracket

[Joe Bernard]

Yep. You'll need Allen wrenches to fit the center crank bolt, plus the chainring bolts.

[Lungimsam]

Main concern is getting the crank arm back on tight enough. How do you know? Is there a torque spec for square taper cranks?

[Joe Bernard]

Check Greg Reiche's post in this iBob thread.

https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/internet-bob/EJwZY9TJoS0

[René Sterental]

Jean recommends 35-40 lbs for the torque on his René Herse cranks. Not sure what torque wrench to use...

On Thursday, May 26, 2016, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Check Greg Reiche's post in this iBob thread.

https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/internet-bob/EJwZY9TJoS0

[Lungimsam]

Is it possiblt to finagle the middel and big rings off without having to pop the crank?

[Joe Bernard]

Yep. It's fiddly, but you can twist them away from the bolt mounts, then carefully slide them past the crankarm and pedal. It's best to hold the middle ring in place with one backing nut still installed while you get the big one off first.

I'm not a big fan of this process 'cause it's easy to scratch the cranks, but I've done it a bunch of times.

[Deacon Patrick]

Plus then the decomposed granite rock union claims I took work from the rocks. Grin.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Joe Bernard]

I don't know what that means, Patrick, but I like it!

[Patrick Moore]

Joe -- my short term memory is shot, so I don't know what it means either! But I'm sure it's right, and I'm sure I like it too.

Patrick "context, why don't they include context?" Moore

On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 4:31 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't know what that means, Patrick, but I like it!

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The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. Chuang Tzu

Stat crux dum volvitur orbis. (The cross stands motionless while the world revolves.) Carthusian motto

It is we who change; He remains the same. Eckhart

Kinei hos eromenon. (It moves [all things] as the beloved.) Aristotle

[Deacon Patrick]

Rocks on the trail take great pleasure in scratching my cranks. If I do it for them, I'd get complaints from their rock union. But if you haffa splain it, it warnt worf it in the fus place! Sardonic grin.

With abandon (of a sense of humor recognized by an outside agency)

Patrick

[Joe Bernard]

It all makes sense now! Sort of!

[Deacon Patrick]

Glimpses betwixt the ears are always scary.

[dougP]

Yes.  I've done it.  Easier to remove the cranks.  PITA on the bike.

dougP