Mid-80 steel frames that could be Roadini standins

[Yankeebird]

I would like a Roadini, but it's going to be a while, and I'm going through some money constraints right now, and I don't mind fixing up something else in the interim. I have a Cheviot right now, and it's my primary main bike for everything. I also have a Surly CC that I built up with an Alfine IGH 8 and Albatross bars, but I keep that at Mom's so when my bro and I visit we have a bike to bang around on to blow off steam.

I would really like a decent smooth steel frame that will take at least a 32-38 tire, and I can build up either with another IGH/albatross or a cassette and drop bars depending on my whims. Something zippier than my Cheviot but not a straight up triathlon bike. 

I'd like to get my hands on a '86 Schwinn Passage (my brother has this bike and it's an incredible) or an early/mid 80's Trek 720. But these things are going for PREMIUM money, almost ridiculous. I value them as $200-300 bikes, but they are listed at $800+ and it boggles my mind. 

Any other comparable frames to the above two I mentioned that I should be looking at? What about Motobecanes? Do they have standard sizing for components or am I going to be banging my head against the wall finding French sized parts? 

Biking is something I enjoy, and I can do basic bike MX and can learn the stuff I don't know, but I am not deep in the weeds of dorkdom when it comes to bikes. I have other much deeper passions. I probably won't build a wheel, but I can replace a BB. I know what I like and what I want when I see it, if I'm pointed in the correct direction by those who know. Hence this query. 

[lconley]

French headsets, bottom brackets and seatposts can be had from VO. You can sand down a Nitto stem to fit a French fork with little effort, or you can just use a English fork with normal headset and stem. French bikes (Gitane, Peugeot, Motobecane, Libertas, etc.) are not really much cheaper though. I have a small Gitane Tour de France that I was thinking of selling, but I would want closer to the $800 than the $200. I originally ended up at Rivendell because the new frames were the same or cheaper than used 70's/80's classic lugged 531 frames.

You might look for a lugged chrome-moly Ross road frame/bike, they are kind of under the radar of most people. They sometimes had cheap components on a nice frame. I got a complete lugged chrome-moly Ross mixte at a thrift store a few years back for $60 - weird parts - the wheels were 3 piece chromed steel hubs with alloy rims. Ross was early into mountain bikes, but they did have some decent road frames.

Laing

[Matt Beecher]

As a Trek 720 owner, I am in agreement with market prices for them.  It is a very nice bike.  I converted mine to 700c and found it nice enough to eventually add dynamo lighting.  I also would not think it is like the Roadini, though I admit I have not ridden one.  I imagine the Roadini is going to feel quite a bit faster.  

If you are looking for something similar to the Trek 720, but sells for less, try Miyata 6xx or Fuji Touring Series bikes.  They still tend to be more than what you are thinking, but you are more likely to catch a deal on one.  

If you are looking for something like the Roadini, I would look for something else...like a 70's sports tourer.   Those might be more in the price range you specified.  

Best regards,

Matt in Oswego, IL

[Doug H.]

Here is a Trek 720 but not sure about the size. I needs TLC. I'm not the owner nor do I know the owner but saw it on local Craigslist.

https://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/bik/d/smyrna-trek-and-schwinn-one-or-both/7372107618.html

Doug

[Christopher Cote]

Look for a Univega. I have a Viva Sport that is eerily similar to my Rambouillet. Like within a few mm in most dimensions. It's a little heavier, not as well made, and not made from as nice steel, but it still rides really nicely. Gobs of tire clearance, and horizontal dropouts for IGH (or singlespeed) use. Not all Univegas are Riv-like, so do your homework and measure carefully. You want something from the sport-touring section of the spectrum. Not a loaded tourer, or a racy criterium-style bike.

Bridgestones, of course are a lot like a Roadini. The RB series is almost always overpriced on the used market due to the cult status, and tire clearance is not as good. The older numeric series bikes may have some like my Univega, but I'm not an expert on those models.

Late 90s and early 'oughts Lemonds are really good, too. Tire clearance will be an issue, though.

Really, any 80s UJB (universal Japanese bike) like Miyata, Nishiki, Centurion, etc will have promise. Look at things like tire clearance, does it use standard (not short) reach brakes, measure the seat tube and head tube angles with an angle finder app on your phone, and pick a good one. Good luck!

Chris

On Wednesday, September 15, 2021 at 11:45:29 AM UTC-4 Yankeebird wrote:

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

You may have success with a variety of steel frames initially built for 27" wheels and caliper brakes.  I've successfully converted three such frames to 700x32-38 with Tektro 559 or 539 caliper brakes.  I'm 6'5" and because of the difficulty in finding tall enough frames I've been entirely opportunistic for such projects but still have 2 of the 3 conversions essentially serving collectively as stand-ins for a Roadini/Hillborne/Homer/Quickbeam.  Mine are all lower end models with non-premium tubesets so not exactly comparable to the more desirable models with higher end steel but they still function the same for my purposes.

A word of caution if you find yourself considering any lower end frames you find locally that many take JIS headsets with 30.0 cups and 27.0 crown race (vs. 30.2 cups and 26.4 crown currently more common)  One of my many lessons during my own evolution as a DIY bike tinkerer.  Not an issue if you find something with a good/serviceable headset and you'll stick with the stock fork, of course.

My 700c conversions were on the following frames (in order of acquisition:)

'87 Schwinn Traveler / '83 Schwinn Traveler / late 70's mystery Raleigh 'DeLuxe' import from Denmark.

The '87 Schwinn was a curbside freebie and my own gateway into DIY bike tinkering.  Turns out this one was rather crudely constructed (headtube was admittedly pretty cool after discovering it's a faux-lugged single cast piece but the top and downtubes weren't even mitred and just brazed in and smashed/bent for steerer clearance.  '83 Schwinn Traveler is Taiwan made by Giant and has much cleaner construction, fits me better being a 27" frame size vs. the 25" '87 Traveler which was big enough with long stem and drops but ended up cracking seatstay on the '87 anyway.

It's kind of interesting comparing these two Travelers side by side.  Both of these 80's Schwinns had 126mm rear spacing, JIS headsets, typical 68mm british bottom bracket shells.  '87 had semi-horizontal dropouts with derailer tab and downtube lever bosses with bolt on under bottom bracket cable guide.  The earlier '83 Traveler has no derailer tab and clamp on downtube shifter bosses, and brazed on cable guides on the top of the BB shell.  I picked up a bolt on derailer mount to eventually be able to run a multispeed wheel from the wheel I had upgraded on the '87 Schwinn but otherwise have been running the '83 as a single speed/Quickbeam substitute in the interim and had considered making this a IGH build instead with the lack of derailer tab and brazed on BB cable guide... also as a 3spd replacement since my mystery Raleigh project completely caught me by surprise.

I won't get into the weeds with this one here since it's not necessarily relevant to your search but The Raleigh was bought cheap with little more than a few photos showing a large frame with locking fork.  It was intended to be a frame replacement/upsize to just move a typical 3sp build from a too small 21" frame Raleigh Sports into the larger frame I found.  Turns out the frame was even larger than I initially thought and easily fits 700x35 - likely 38mm with fender if I could add some clearance to the chainstays, but vertical clearance with current 35mm and Tektro brakes is nearly 2cm.  I've essentially made this my commuter/lock-up/basket bike (I don't have a commute but this is the one I grab for any utility riding.)

Probably worth checking out any local co-ops or bike kitchens in your area.  Central New Jersey area has Second Life Bikes in Asbury Park and in Trenton there is the Boys and Girls Club Bike Exchange that both run on donations/volunteer support. I used to have an office within a 15min ride of Second Life Bikes in Asbury where I'd make an occasional lunch hour trip to both drop off parts donations or dig through the parts bins for anything specific in need (and successfully found necessary seatposts/stems/levers on several occasions plus the 27" '83 Schwinn I just happened to spot hanging in the rafters one day.)

Best of luck!

Brian Cole

Lawrence NJ

On Wednesday, September 15, 2021 at 11:45:29 AM UTC-4 Yankeebird wrote:

[Christopher Cote]

Good point about the 27" to 700c conversion. My Univega Viva Sport originally had 27" wheels, and now has 700c wheels. Plenty of adjustment on the standard reach brakes, and it now has room for at least 35mm tires, maybe 38. 

I've had a bunch of 80s road bikes, and have yet to run into one with a bad headset, but YMMV. 80s MTBs on the other hand... well, they often lived a harder life.

Finally, the OP is looking for a Roadini replacement, but mentions the Trek 720. The 720 is a pretty serious touring machine, and not really comparable to the Roadini. I focused in on the Roadini part, and as such, was suggesting 80s sport touring bikes. 

Chris

[Mike Godwin]

I've been counseling a friend on CL bike, pointing him to a Univega Sport Tour, or Gran Sprint (champion 1 vs 2 and mangaloy), early Miyatas-Centurion-Fuji-Nishiki crowd, the usual UJB selections. He found a Jamis Axis, still to be checked out. Looks like a Tange Infinity sticker on the seat tube. UJBs seem to be a better bargain now than low or medium grade 531 bikes, but the prices are all over the map. Also check out the Schwinn Tenax trinity of Circuit-Tempo-Peloton. Less tire clearance but under the radar bikes too.

Mike SLO CA 

[Yankeebird]

Oh these are all great, thank you. I mention the Roadini because to my eye, it mimics a lot of the older touring bikes. The Roadini chainstays are not uber-long, but a bit longer than a tighter bike, and tubing is not ultralight, but a bit beefier. To my amateur eye, seems somewhat comparable to bikes like the 720 or Passage that had slightly longer chainstays and slightly heavier tubing. Sure, the descriptions might be different, the Roadini is more "Riv-Racey" and the 720/Passage are serious touring machines in their era... I wouldn't think that a 720/Passage would ride as stiffly as an unloaded Long Haul Trucker, for instance. 

Am I wrong?

[Mathieu Brown]

Not sure what your size is (and I get the search for a nice long chainstay)  but might I suggest some lower-model Waterford Treks? 

I'm riding a 1983 Trek 620 (which was, unfortunately, listed as a 720) and an even older Trek TX500 that can fit a 700c X 38 tire without fenders. They ride great, I think - though not as nice as a Waterford AHH

Nothing I know-of that's older is going to have those Trek 720/728 chainstays though - mine are only a 44mm

And while the prices aren't nearly as crazy for the lower models in smaller sizes (just running a quick ebay search), as Matt noted, prices are still going up ....

Best of luck, 

 

MATHIEU BROWN

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[Jay P]

You have at least two great options that are easy to find (with a little patience):

1)  Specialized Sequoia, earlier the better

Obvio.  For all the reasons.  But I think this is better....     :

2)  Trek 710 (1983 or before, earlier maybe better but not necessarily)  

I"m surprised these don't get higher prices as it is the perfect all around road bike -- Rivendells surely improve on them but....        

I've seen some frames/forks clear up to 700x40, but you need to triple confirm because sometimes just barely 35mm. Often already have rack mounts.  I've set up many people on these and almost uniformly superb riding bikes -- lively, fun, practical, probably supple.   If you're feeling flush, have a framebuilder improve it (downtube cable stops, better brake cable routing, 2nd and/or 3rd water bottle cage mounts (triple mount on seat tube for the King manything ti cage?), rear der. stop?) and get it powder coated or painted.   Phenomenal bikes.  I'm surprised we all aren't competing for these.  

+ make sure you have proper stem, handlebars, wheels, and tires

A nice 710 (without the framebuilding stuff) + parts (assuming you do the work + have some parts around) = maybe $500-800

Best value around !

Wishing you well ----

Jay P.

Kauai 

[Christopher Cote]

I've never seen a Specialized Sequoia in person. Maybe they're more common on the west coast, but around here, you'd have a better chance of finding a Heron Road, or Riv Rambouillet used. I've also never understood why the Sequoia has such status here. It's not very "Riv-ish". To me, the first tenet of Rivishness is a slack seat tube. Everything else is built around that. The Sequoia has a 74 degree STA. Sure, you can set a super setback seatpost, but that makes the reach to the bars way too long, and upsets the whole aesthetic.

Yankeebird - there's a lot more to the Trek 720 than the long chainstays. I personally am not a fan of the 720. If you're lusting after an old Trek, my preference would be the 1983 or older 620.  I had one of those, and it was a great bike. The 720 is a purpose built loaded tourer. It may not appear so to the eye, but it's built of very stout tubing, and won't ride as nicely unloaded as some of the other suggestions, and certainly not as nice as a Roadini. I don't know how it would compare to a LHT. The deal killer for the 720, though, are the wheels and brakes. It was built around 27" wheels with cantilever brakes and very narrow brake post spacing. Without getting too deep in the weeds, that makes it challenging to convert to 700c. It's much easier on the 1983 620 with regular caliper brakes. The 620 also was built of lighter tubing.

Where are you located? Have you found any bikes for sale locally that you are interested in?

Chris

[Eric Daume]

I had a Roadini, briefly, and didn’t find it a particularly inspiring bike to ride. The OS tubing is quite stout and felt like more a touring bike to me. A generic UJB (or an old Trek) will likely give a livelier ride, though you might miss the wonderful high stack of the Roadini. 

Eric

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[lucky...@gmail.com]

Have I missed the size bike you are seeking?

On Sep 16, 2021, at 07:29, Christopher Cote <christophe...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've never seen a Specialized Sequoia in person. Maybe they're more common on the west coast, but around here, you'd have a better chance of finding a Heron Road, or Riv Rambouillet used. I've also never understood why the Sequoia has such status here. It's not very "Riv-ish". To me, the first tenet of Rivishness is a slack seat tube. Everything else is built around that. The Sequoia has a 74 degree STA. Sure, you can set a super setback seatpost, but that makes the reach to the bars way too long, and upsets the whole aesthetic.

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[Yankeebird]

Wow this is great!

The lower number Treks have been definitely on the docket-- the 620, 710, etc. and I definitely appreciate the second thumbs up from you folks. My wife had a 600 that she absolutely adored for many years. A little tighter tire clearances than I would like on that particular model, however. I'm gravitating towards the Treks because they have the 24" frame size that is really in my sweet spot. But overall I'm not super picky about this all, except: Steel, Crown Fork, 32-38 tires, Fun to ride. 

Chris, Thanks for the critical reviews on the 720 and the stiffness. I'm already pretty light as it is. 

Eric, Roadini wise, not only are they not available but also the dimensions are just beyond what I think will work for me. I fall right at the break between the 57 and 61 and I feel like I'm going to reaching. My 60 Surly CC has a 60cm TT and it's just a bit too much, I fear I'd be maxing out the 57 but reaching on the 61. So I'm not so hot-to-trot on the Roadini, it's the idea of the Roadini that I'm after. Something sprightly that I can tinker on and throw in another IG or what have you and sprint around town. 

I'm in northern New England. Not a huge reservoir of things for sale online, better luck at bike swaps and tag sales and consignments. 

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[Christopher Cote]

How about this one?

https://nh.craigslist.org/bik/d/loudon-univega-viva-sport-12-speed/7358221241.html

Chris

[aeroperf]

An '82 Fuji America is a great bike if you can find one.  What the road bike people thought was a touring bike back then.

https://classicfuji.posthaven.com/1982-fuji-catalog-no-12-edition

[st nick]

I recently let a 1986 Schwinn Passage go to a new owner after enjoying a lot for around 3 years.

The only reason I did sell it was because I bought a Sam Hillbourne about a year ago and have been riding it more.

I think the Columbus Tenax tubing of which the Passage is made is pretty good stuff. 

On my 23" Passage frame I squeezed in 700x40 tires with perhaps 2 mm clearance on each side in the rear with no problems with true wheels. 

The other touring bikes mentioned also might suit your needs.

I've had a Specialized Expedition,  

Miyata  610, Miyata 1000, Nishiki Cresta, Nishiki International, and a custom touring bike.

I don't think from my experience the Passage gave up much to them in riding performance or feel or whatever. 

It had fewer  braze on bosses than some touring models but rode terrific.

The cantilever posts are a bit more narrow and would not accept some cantilever brakes but I just used the Dia Compe original cantilevers with higher quality pads and I thought they stopped quite adequately.

Good luck with your search.

The past two weeks I've been  tinkering with a 1982, I think,

24" Puch Austro Daimler Vent Noir Reynolds 531 frame with the smoked chrome finish.

I can fit Jack Brown 700x 33.3 in the rear no problem. 

Non original fork , I don't care for,

however will only take a 32.

I'm searching for a chrome replacement fork. 

Good luck with your search.

Paul in Dallas

.

[Patrick Moore]

If you want road bike fit and handling with big tire clearance, look for some of the old road racing frames from the 1970s and even 1960s, if you can find any. My former 1973 Motobecane Grand Record was very light (much lighter tubing than Rivendells, except perhaps the Roadeo and the Legolas; all 531) yet had clearance for 35s at least without fenders. Ditto for the 1966 Bottechia Campione del Mondo that I owned earlier: easily room for 35s at least and probably 37s. There's one on Ebay now; see attached photo. (300 Euros, but alas in Italy.)

The early 1970s Libertas frame that is now hanging on the wall waiting for a build is even lighter and has more clearance; my brother said he got 37s-38s in his; and mine -- 60 X 56 c-c -- weighs**5.9 lb** in this large size; that's frame and fork and steel Campy headset. (The Libertas has a reputation for nice handling, too.) My brother (last count 26 bikes -- that he remembers, and this after divesting himself of many others -- has owned many ~50 year old steel road frames that took 35-38 mm tires,

My former blue-edition Rambouillet took 32s (about 31 mm actual IIRC) with fenders, and could probably have taken 35s without under normal reach single pivots.

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[Craig Montgomery]

I actually have one that might interest you Bubba. An '86 Mercian I've had almost 2 decades. 59cm (23 1/2"). 531C. "Sport Touring". 700x32mm BUT my favorite iteration is as a 650Bx38 All Roader. Got these wheels for sale also but they may be more than you want to invest (Phil Wood). I have set it up Fixed, with a Sturmey Archer 4 speed, 700x32 Light Tourer, and 650Bx38 All Road. Damn I'm convincing myself not to sell it. 

Here it is fixed: 

 

Gentleman's Tourer (moteling it):

As a 650B with PariMoto 38's

If this pushes a button email me. 

Craig way too many frames and projects in Tucson

On Wednesday, September 15, 2021 at 8:45:29 AM UTC-7 Yankeebird wrote:

[Ryan]

Craig, if you're asking yourself whether you should sell it, I think you'll regret it, just because you have so much history with it.(Why I can't part with my old PX-10 and 1993 X0-1...plus 3 Rivendells) .That is a beauty! So understated and elegant! The Gentleman moniker is very apt. Have another think about letting go of that...with all due respect to the original poster😊

Ryan in Winnipeg, MB

[Marty Gierke, Stewartstown PA]

Keep an eye out for an early to mid 80s Miyata 912 or 914. I picked this '83 912 up recently and it's a very nice bike. Will fit 32s. One level below the pro models. This is an as-found photo - I have since added the correct seatpost and pedals. Will find replacement hoods. Look at that sweet fork bend! All Shimano 600EX. Kind of flies under the radar so you might get lucky.

Marty

[Marty Gierke, Stewartstown PA]

I also have this Trek 614 from 1981 that is too small for me. Amazing condition as-found. It came with 27" wheels but I tried a set of 700c wheels with 40mm tires that they actually fit! I would part with it if this floats your boat.  I can get better pics of the current cleaned up state. It's a stunning bike. 

[Fullylugged]

I have gotten great service out of a mid 80s Nashbar Mark III. It was originally converted to 650B by Ed Braley, if you're familiar with the name and came to me via a Riv List member.  I rode it for a while with a Veloce Compact double, but for a while have used a Chorus 50/40/26 triple.  I have an XT in back with a 11-36 9  speed and use it on hilly rides. It maxes out at 38mm without fenders on Velocity Synergy or A23 rims. Tange tubing and so far very durable. Very affordable frame on the used market. Made for Nashbar by Maruishi in Japan. 

[Johnny Alien]

My Saluki was originally owned by Ed Braley

[Yankeebird]

Wow so many sweet looking bikes and so many great ideas... this thread is paying off in spades and has definitely broadened my eye. Lovely. 

That Mercian is a heartstopper. Wowzer. I couldn't do it. I'm not worthy. You should keep her, for sure. 

Martie, what's the size of that Trek 614... 22.5"?

[Paul Brodek]

Combining a few threads/thoughts here...

Sorry to be That Guy, but I think we're talking about Water_loo_ Treks, not Water_ford_ Treks. Both have Water in them, but Waterford is a completely different builder.

And being That Guy yet again, just a reminder that there was a run of early-'80s Trek 600-series frames with Ishiwata CCL forks that had a tendency to crack. Specifically '81 Trek 610/613/614 and '82 Trek 613/614 frames with the Ishiwata CCL fork crown are suspect. The failures were typically catastrophic, meaning they failed without warning or showing sign of gradual failure. Some folks think it's due to the inside fork crown profile not having a stress-relieving tang, but I've heard from more than one builder that there are other fork crowns out there with similar profiles with better track records, and they suspect the Ishiwata CCL crown/blades were simply overheated. Plenty of online info out on the webs and here in the forums, as always your call as to whether to use 'em or replace 'em. I replaced mine with a Soma.

FWIW, there do seem to be a fairly good supply of used '70s-'80s Treks out there these days. I regularly cruise Charles N's bobbish bikes for sale, and there are days when more than half the posts are Treks of this era.

And for those seeking earlier Specialized Sequoias, not a whole lot of those surface on my radar. Though I haven't been seeking them out specifically, I'm not seeking out older Treks either, but they pop up all the time. To be fair, taking in a bunch of different models, the Trek pool was originally many tens of thousands, maybe more, where 4-5yrs worth of early Sequoias is a significantly smaller pool.

Paul Brodek

Hillsdale, NJ USA 

[Paul Brodek]

There are literally tons of candidates out there. I'm old and graying, and so understand the literal meaning of "tons." Heck, just amongst us ibobers we could likely dig out the 400-500 excess 4lb~5lb frames we'd need to make a ton. Maybe not all your size. I won't get into details here since I don't have numbers ready, but I've got two 61cm-ish cheapish-but-nice, higher-end sport-tour Fujis that'd fit the bill nicely, along with a genuine tourer if somebody wanted something stouter, with even better clearance. Plus a forkless Miyata 912, and likely a couple others. 

No shortage of candidates...

Paul Brodek

Hillsdale, NJ USA

[Marty Gierke, Stewartstown PA]

I should know by now to highlight the "death fork" in every thread that mentions my 614. My bad. Sounds like I should bite the bullet and replace it before I kill anyone should I sell it. 

Marty

[Craig Montgomery]

Damn bikes are like leeches aren't they? 

Craig in Tucson

[upyou...@yahoo.com]

I'm not sure why I even clicked on this thread but I did and when I saw  Specialized Sequoias mentioned, it caught my eye.  I have one and it's been my main bike since 2004.  Now I am the proud owner of a Riv Platypus and basically went from 23mm tires to 48mm tires.  I don't know if I can ever get on that  Specialized Sequoia ever again.  I looked into maybe increasing the tire size but it can only squeeze a 28mm.  I love the triple as I ride hills in North Jersey and took the bike on many hotel tours over the years.  It was advertised as a 'Sport Tourer' and had a rise in the stem.  I rode it around the parking lot once and bought the bike.  

I've never seen another  Specialized Sequoia. 

Good luck with your search.  

Kate from Trenton who may never need another bike again after happily riding her new Riv Platy

[Mathieu Brown]

I was waiting for that Waterloo Wi v Waterford Wi correction Paul - no worries.

Much more importantly is to highlight the build quality concern. 

MATHIEU BROWN

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[max.c....@gmail.com]

Paul, I may be interested in that Puch...how much time left do you have with it? :)

[John G.]

I can't believe I almost missed a chance to comment on my favorite topic! You, my friend, are looking for a Regular Ass Road Bike. There are a ton of good suggestions here. Here's my take as a Roadeo owner with a stable of RARBs from the late 70s/early 80s:

-  I love my Roadeo, but I also love my Mercian Superlight, my Mercian Vincitore, my Nishiki Ultimate, etc. 

- Be careful going after a full touring frame. I have a Voyageur SP. It's very stately, but not very spritely. A touring frame will almost quite certainly throw you into the pain cave that is 27-inch to 700C with Cantis conversion.

- That being said, and as others have mentioned, you can get GREAT results with a caliper-equipped frame originally made for 27-inch tires. My Vincitore was made for 27 inch tires, and it now fits 35mm 700c under fenders. 

- a decent frame from that era is worthy of some new components, especially wheels. You'll just need to be mindful of rear spacing. I've been very happy with the VO 126mm hub.

- Cranks might be an issue, too. A lot of them come with 52/42 chainrings with annoying BCDs like 144. FWIW, I can handle a 53 chainring better on a standard diameter bike than on an OS bike.

If I were you, I'd buy Craig's Mercian in a heartbeat. Don't worry about being precious about it. My Superlight is pretty beat up and has far too much surface rust. You can always get it repainted, which is my plan.

[James Valiensi]

I need a Fat Ass Road Bike, any suggestions?

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[Benjamin Park]

I have that same Bottecchia (albeit I think mine is a bit newer, probably 1972). I ride it all the time- it makes a great road bike! Columbus tubing is so smooth. I put a front rack and it's my little rando bike. Actually does ok with the weight of a front bag.  I have some RH 32s on it but agree it could take 35s.  116mm rear spacing is a bummer though!

[Patrick Moore]

A Bottechia Fellow Traveller! Yes, now that you mention it, my 1966 felt smooth, and I daresay this was a result of (1) the standard-gauge tubing, (2) non-excessively-thick tube walls, and (3) the relatively (relative to post-1980s-crit-geom frames) lax and loose geometry. I road it, IIRC, with Ritchey 700C X 28 or 30 tires, nothing special, and still, it felt smooth.

Model-non-specific Columbus tubing, and I forget what the rear OL was, but I built mine as a ss fixed, so the OL could have been anything from 116 to 120.

I build mine with the original moustache bar and used it as a beater commuter, albeit as a very nice beater commuter. 

But alas! it was a size or so too small -- 56 c-c st and tt, where I should have a 60X56 c-c, so I sold it on.

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[Patrick Moore]

Come to think of it, I temporarily resolved the too-small frame with a custom Salsa upjutter quill stem. Wonder where that stem went.

[Patrick Moore]

Oh! Please post photos of your Bottechia.

[Craig Montgomery]

John G. said: 

If I were you, I'd buy Craig's Mercian in a heartbeat. Don't worry about being precious about it. My Superlight is pretty beat up and has far too much surface rust. You can always get it repainted, which is my plan.

                         And I'll sell the damn thing for $275 shipped with (are you ready?) a Campy headset. Don't remember which model though. 

                         A little something to ponder.

                         Craig in Tucson

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[Yankeebird]

Oooh email sent

[Paul Brodek]

Such a deal/steal! Wish I weren't downsizing myself...

Paul Brodek

Hillsdale, NJ USA

On Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 8:18:01 PM UTC-4 Craig Montgomery wrote:

[Paul Brodek]

With a big HOWDY to John G-----still have yer Crust, and JP Wiggle?

Just a coupla listings I've noticed at ridiculously low prices. All big/tall frames, 'cause that's what I drool over, and I haven't checked out frame clearance details, 'cause I ain't buying. None of these are pristine/mint, but the OP's search was for inexpensive, and these definitely qualify for that. This is but a sampling of what's out there...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/133882531544 (Trek 760---high-end model)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/133882531544 (Trek 660)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/165084180998 (Raleigh Int'l---these used to go for stupid money...)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/165084182153 (Gazelle!!!! "Bialystock und Bloom---guten tag von deg!" I know Gazelle isn't Swedish, but it's close, and how often do I get the chance to call Max and Leo?)

"I'm wearing a cardboard belt!"

"Go, Bialy----GO!"

Paul Brodek

Hillsdale, NJ USA

[Craig Montgomery]

I know. Downsizing is an age thing with me. Pushing 70 and I do not want to saddle my ladies with tons of "What the hell do we do with this?" stuff. Hoping to get down to the bikes I ride the most and hope that I don't regret the decisions. This Mercian is a deep breath and a big sigh. 

Craig in Tucson

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[Benjamin Park]

Here is my Bottecchia. I think it's a 1972, at least seems like it according to a catalog I found on the interwebs: http://campybike.com/pdf/1972Bottecchia.pdf

Probably a Professional, which was their "racing" model and had Columbus tubing and chromed. Originally blue I think and was repainted ferrari red by a PO. A lot of campy parts but not completely. I'm sure the campy parts are not period correct, but it's not hanging on a wall so I don't really care.  The old campy headset was worn out and pitted unfortunately so there's a VO grand cru in there. Also has a front VO rack for a handlebar bag.  I find it to be quite stable with a light front load actually.

I fit some 7-speed wheels despite 116mm rear spacing - that campy RD really stretches but I can engage the big cog! I'm using 32mm RH tires but I think it would fit 35s. Thinking about upgrading the wheels and trying 650b to bump up to 38s. Not sure about cold setting the rear triangle- haven't done that before but Sheldon makes it look so easy! Still, stretching it from 116 to 130mm seems like a lot. The old Dia-Compe single pivot calipers are pretty bad but I picked up some center pulls I will swap. The Kool Stop pads help though.

It's basically a mix of various parts right now, but I really do enjoy riding it. It really does respond to climbs- that sensation of pushing up hill in a higher gear inch than other bikes- is that planing? I don't know but it's fun.

[Patrick Moore]

Thank you. The blue catalogue model -- and thus yours under the paint -- is exactly like mine, though I bought mine as a frameset, not built up. Mine was too small -- 56 cm c-c, requiring a tall sp and a custom Salsa stem for the Moustache bar -- but I used it as a fixed gear commuter for a number of years, and it rode very nicely.

[Benjamin Park]

Just rode a 100k race with the old Bottecchia yesterday! Beautiful ride in the Appalachian mountains of North Georgia. She did great! Definitely a conversation starter. A small part of me really loved passing folks all kitted up in carbon.

[Patrick Moore]

Good for you! And nice photo.

The Professional (I think mine was a Professional) was a light, nimble frame, as I remember it. 

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[st nick]

Benjamin,  that's a great looking Bottecchia!

I really like chrome lugs!!!

I would snag one of those if it came my way at a reasonable price.

You have your bars up high like I do on all my bikes.

I'm sure you did surprise some of the carbon kitted folks.

...perhaps they were thinking, 

 "What the heck?  

The bike shop told me this $3000 to $13000 bike was one of the fastest on the road!!!$$$".

Side note : Two weeks ago I stopped in a local bike shop to pick up an inner tube

and saw some Specialized high zoot machine marked $13,500.

I recently considered a pretty dang nice used car for a couple thousand less.

Paul in Dallas

.

[Kurt Henry]

I'm very late to the game, as I can't seem to reply from my phone in the current version of google groups.  I had to drag out my laptop.  

I've attached a lousy picture of my Bottecchia from shortly before I finished putting it together.  I bought it as a frame and fork from Dale over on CR.  He thought it was a Giro d'Italia or Professional, though possibly a different year than the catalog.  I can feel the rifling in the steerer so will buy the Columbus tubing.  But it's a taller frame (for me) at 60cm ctt and uses a 27.0 seatpost, so presumably some SP mixed in.  It's a great ride, and an answer to a question I posed to the list a few years ago about the rarity of Columbus tubed bikes with clearance for sizable tires plus eyelets for fenders.  Yes, they exist!  I have Challenge Strada Biancas (700X30) on it with plenty of room. I don't ride it that much, though, as it's just a smidge big for me.  If someone runs across a way to shrink frames, please feel free to call me.

Kurt Henry
Lancaster, PA

[Benjamin Park]

Kurt, can you educate me as to the "rifling" in the steerer tube- what is it, and is this characteristic of Columbus tubing? Also, what is "SP"?

[Paul Brodek]

"Old is Good"

http://bikeretrogrouch.blogspot.com/2014/01/classic-tubes-columbus.html

Paul Brodek

Hillsdale, NJ USA

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[Mike Godwin]

Hi Kurt

I guess you can shrink the herd by sending me the smidge too large Bottechia.  

Mike SLO CA 

[Dave S]

How about the early 80's Schwinn Super Sport SP?  They're not easy to find but it has some pretty decent clearances and is also fairly light(ish).

Dave in NJ

[Yankeebird]

Oh man another rabbit hole for me to get lost in.

This thread has really gone above and beyond expectations. I have gone done so many slippery slopes into endless possibilities! 

So many beautiful bikes too! 

[Yankeebird]

It's not that I don't absolutely love my Cheviot, I do! But those guys at WC are so good it came out of the box absolutely perfect with no tinkering required. I didn't even have to change the stem. They nailed it. I kind of liked messing around with my Cross Check and swapping things and out. Also, the Cheviot rides like a steamship, so smooth, so quiet, so stately. I wouldn't mind a bike with some zip, I can lean into a carve and put the hammer down and feel the steed leap away out from under me. That would be fun too, and messing around with parts and stuff. 

I'm not even a big bike guy, I get my hands plenty filthy in other hobbies, but there's just something about it.

[Benjamin Park]

While obsessing over tubing thickness I came across this amazing resource linked in the archived message below:

Bay Area: Measuring frame tubing at the Box Dog Bikes party on Saturday! (google.com)

It even has the 1972 Bottecchia listed!  Wow, Reed you are my hero! This is fascinating!!

[Bill Lindsay]

The Original Poster was looking for a frameset that would stand in for a Rivendell Roadini.  He was looking for recommendations for 1980s bikes that would suffice and indicated that the bikes he thought would fit the bill should cost $200-$300 complete.  I'm not sure whether the OP found his <$300 Roadini complete substitute, but there was a lot of traffic from others looking for Roadini-like products without sharing the Original Poster's price targets/constraints.  

Velo Orange just offered a sneak peek at their new rando frameset which appears to tick all the boxes.  That may be an appealing option for some of the participants on this thread.  As a 'bicycle shaped object' it matches the shape of a Roadini, just with a little bit shorter chainstays.  It has a very svelte looking mono-stay seatstay setup that looks very deliberate and sleek, albeit a more modern look.

Here's a link to the V-O blog.  The Velo ORANGE Blog (velo-orange.blogspot.com)

There's no geo-chart or price, and no concrete availability schedule.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA 

On Wednesday, September 15, 2021 at 8:45:29 AM UTC-7 Yankeebird wrote:

I would like a Roadini, but it's going to be a while, and I'm going through some money constraints right now, and I don't mind fixing up something else in the interim. I have a Cheviot right now, and it's my primary main bike for everything. I also have a Surly CC that I built up with an Alfine IGH 8 and Albatross bars, but I keep that at Mom's so when my bro and I visit we have a bike to bang around on to blow off steam.

I would really like a decent smooth steel frame that will take at least a 32-38 tire, and I can build up either with another IGH/albatross or a cassette and drop bars depending on my whims. Something zippier than my Cheviot but not a straight up triathlon bike. 

I'd like to get my hands on a '86 Schwinn Passage (my brother has this bike and it's an incredible) or an early/mid 80's Trek 720. But these things are going for PREMIUM money, almost ridiculous. I value them as $200-300 bikes, but they are listed at $800+ and it boggles my mind. 

Any other comparable frames to the above two I mentioned that I should be looking at? What about Motobecanes? Do they have standard sizing for components or am I going to be banging my head against the wall finding French sized parts? 

Biking is something I enjoy, and I can do basic bike MX and can learn the stuff I don't know, but I am not deep in the weeds of dorkdom when it comes to bikes. I have other much deeper passions. I probably won't build a wheel, but I can replace a BB. I know what I like and what I want when I see it, if I'm pointed in the correct direction by those who know. Hence this query. 

[Karl Wilcox]

A Motobecane would be an excellent stand-in for a Roadini (I ride both).  There are Motobecanes with Japanese components; I believe the 1981 Le Champion came with Shimano 600 and Vitus steel (equivalent to Reynolds 531).  Actually, any Reynolds 531 frame on Ebay that was built for 27 inch wheels will acommodate 700cx32-35 tires.  I got a 1979 Mercian frameset on Ebay for 200.00 dollars two years ago-- it was built for 27 inch wheels, so I am able to run 32c tires on it easily.  It actually rides better than my Roadini (more compliant if a little unsteady at anything above 40 mph).  Ebay is still a good place to shop for frames if you purchase frames that have horrible paint jobs!  Then just take it to your local powder coat guy.      

[Evan E.]

Yankeebird,

For all I know, you’ve found a bike by now. But in case you haven’t, how about a minty Schwinn, built by Panasonic, circa 1984?

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/bik/d/san-francisco-1984-schwinn-super-sport/7400869490.html

Not my bike. I’m just an enabler.

[Yankeebird]

Ok, resurrecting this thread-

I thought about this long and hard over the winter, such a great convo, such great tidbits. But I realized I really wanted was a Rambouillet- Riv, road oriented, cheaper than a new Roadini, so I decided to sit and wait. Today, thanks to this group and the For Sale thread I found a 62cm Ram 90min from home and it's now MINE at an incredibly reasonable price. Absolutely wonderful, solves my quest almost perfectly. I need to source some parts and do a quasi-build, more later!

[lucky...@gmail.com]

Nice score and that Salsa stem is *chef’s kiss*

On May 3, 2022, at 16:00, Yankeebird <frees...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ok, resurrecting this thread-

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[Eric Marth]

Just finished reading through and congrats, yankeebird, on nailing down a bike. 

I left a note in the For Sale thread but will repeat the request here: Please share some pics! I could use some soothing after the trauma of the mismatched tires, only rear fender and those bars

[Yankeebird]

Here you go, Eric

I got it back up and running in a temporary fashion-- not sure where I want to go with it. I threw on some Albatross. French Specialites 52/40 up front, some sort of generic 11-28 7sp freewheel in the back with Phil hub. Thinking of bumping it up to 13-32. Up front has the dynamo but no wires. Some corrosion in the corners on the bottom bracket, the underside especially where the cables route through. Looks like a previous owner rode it in the salt and never cleaned up afterwards? Interior of the tubes are in good shape. The brakes are Suntour Superbes-- I got new Tektro 539s but that was a mistake- the Suntours have greater vertical clearance. The Marathon 35's won't fit vertically under the 539's. I was not expecting that. So I reinstalled the Suntours, the pads are still rubbery and not hard and bad, but I'll prob get new pads sooner than later just because. 

Don't know where this will go-- 7 speed only? 3 speed? Drops or Albastache or keep the Albatross? Unclear vision. BUT she is quite zippy and fast. A fun bike and a good change from the Cheviot. The Surly CC has a longer wheelbase, surprisingly, than the Rambouillet, but both feel very similar overall. 

Going to keep it clean and light, regardless. 

It's interesting-- this is a 62cm. I am 6'2"+ with a 91pbh and I could go either with the 62 or 64. They both would work, the 64 probably a bit better than the 62, except I wouldn't have the nut-clearance. I'm glad I didn't look for the 60. 

[Eric Marth]

Congrats, Yankeebird! Looks like a nice bike, there. I'm glad you found a frame that met your needs and built up into a comfy ride :) 

[Will Boericke]

Now I know who bought that Ram!  I saw it on CL and thought, ouch, lots of rust.  And also, "wish I was taller"!