Returning to Riv

[Tim Butterfield]

Hi, everyone.

It’s been quite some time since I last posted here, though I never really left the group, just stopped the emails.  Some of you may remember helping me build out a 2016 57 A Homer Hilsen.  That was my favorite bike (with an Atlantis as second) until my life situation changed and I ended up selling the Atlantis first and then the Homer.  Half a dozen years later, I’m looking to resume cycling.  I still find myself drawn to Rivendells.

A lot has changed since my Homer.  Production moved.  Some new models were introduced.  Geometries have changed.  But, I expect they still ride like a Riv or maybe even better, which is why I’m checking in with the experts here, especially those who have ridden more than one model.

My Homer handled everything I ever asked of it.    My riding hasn’t really changed.  I’ll likely still ride mostly pavement, greenways, country roads, and gravel roads, but not really dirt or singletrack.  I wouldn’t mind some credit card touring if I could talk my wife into it.  I’ve been enjoying Steven Herrick’s EuroVelo books, which certainly haven’t hurt.  One part of me thinks I should just get the same thing I had.  Another part thinks I might be missing out on something just as good, but different.

Another big difference is budget.  Back then, I was fortunate enough to order exactly what I wanted.  Now, I could look for a used bike with an acceptable build or pick a preferred frame and build it up over time.

For reference, my Homer was built with 700×38 Barlow Pass tires, Honjo fenders, a triple, Paul Racers, dynamo lighting, and racks. It was comfortable, stable, and just seemed to do everything well. I never found myself wishing it could do more.  At this point, I would be happy to be riding again as the details can be sorted out over time.

For those who have owned both older and newer Rivs, how do they compare? If I were starting over today with the kind of riding I described, would you still steer me toward a Homer, or has another model largely taken over that role?

I’d enjoy hearing your thoughts.

Thanks.

Tim

[Mike in BK]

A 58 Homer 650B (lower standover, probably like your 57) just went on ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/227436139249

[Adrian]

Hey all,

That's actually my Homer. Happy to answer any questions about it if you guys had any! And for anyone on the list, I'm more than flexible on the price, I just listed it high on eBay due to all the fees.

If someone is interested in a rolling chassis or a build with no Paul brakes/levers (tektro 559's can be swapped on) I can work within someone's budget.

Mike is right, the 58 from 2019 has a lower standover than today's current Homer. I had Rivendell 650b x 34 maxy fasty on this bike and it lowered the standover some more. As well as grand bois 650b x 36, they were fast rolling and plush enough still. Currently on 650b x 42's.

[Tim Butterfield]

Hi, Mike.

Thanks for the link.   Thanks also to Adrian for the extra info.

That particular bike confirms how far out of date I am.  I didn't even know that a Homer in a size larger than mine even came with 650B or that it was standard for size 58 and smaller in 2019.  My mind is blown a bit by that.  My personal preference would be for 700 instead of 650B.  I have a Kickr Snap trainer I can use in winter along with the 700 trainer tire.  I guess I could find a 650b trainer tire if I went that route.  Also, a PBH of 83.8 might be tight on that particular bike.

For now, I mostly wanted to learn about the models and how they compare when riding.  What have the changes been like to live with?  I was catching up on the Riv site with the 'nuanced' model descriptions and was further surprised by the similarities between some like the 99% similarity between Atlantis/Appaloosa and how the Homer/Sam still have similarities.  I was also surprised the Roadini can now handle tires up to 43.  Wow.  And, this is just the current models and not the interim models over the last 10 years.  Those are probably the ones I need to learn more about.  With the order/delivery lag combined with overall cost, I'm not ready to build another new one right now.  I need to learn more first.  I went through this learning process in 2016.  It seems I need to do it again.  lol

Thanks.

Tim

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[Joe Bernard]

Tim, 

As you've alluded to most current Riv models ride pretty similar and handle the same roads (Clem is probably first choice if you ride a lot of dirt). The outlier for you since 2016 would be how you feel about the Platypus with its lower toptube and mid-stays. It's a perfect bicycle for the kind of riding you do and comes with 700c wheels in your size range, plus v-brakes which I prefer over the road calipers on Homer. 

Joe Bernard 

Clearlake CA 

[Tim Butterfield]

Hi, Joe.

Thanks for another brain stretcher.  :)

The capabilities look interesting as does the bike itself.  I'm old enough to think of the easy step through as a 'girls' bike, but could probably overcome that.  I would also need to figure out how I feel about having the second bottle cage below the first instead of vertically on the seat post.

Thanks

Tim

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[Joe Bernard]

I hear ya Tim, as you can see I've overcome these obstacles in response to a stiff back. I'm a step-througher! 😂

[Dorothy C]

Tim, another option if you are on a budget is the YelloWolleY - the new complete bike similar to a Platy that just went on presale and they have plenty of stock left. They are provisioned with very nice parts and are 700c in all but the smallest size. 

[Kim H.]

Hi Tim,

I have a Clem like Joe and many other members herein. I am very happy to own one. As a senior cyclist in my early 70's, I am very grateful for Rivendell Bicycle Works to offer a step-through bicycle, for the main reason that I am unable to swing my right leg over the back end of a standard top-tubed bicycle due to pain in my hip joint. I call my Clem an elongated land surfboard, measuring nearly 80" long. It is a versatile bike with many capabilities both on or off road.  

As far as your concern about having more than one water bottle cage, I have solved that problem a while back. I found on Velo Orange these hinged water bottle cage clamps. 

https://velo-orange.com/products/hinged-water-bottle-cage-clamps?variant=35950514012310&keyword=water%20bottle%20hinged

See attached picture of the placements I have on my Clem.

I also have a Nitto handlebar mount for a third water bottle cage for easy access in addition to the large water bottle cage on the low bar of the frameset. 

Kim Hetzel, who thinks past the "girlie bike" appearance for comfort and joy.

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[Tim Butterfield]

Hi, Joe.

Thanks for the Clem photo.  I'm loving where you can get to with it.

I had a conversation with ChatGPT about these.  The low step over height probably has some benefits as I age.  One of my concerns is a preference for a drop bar for the variety of hand positions.  Can you get the same variety of hand positions with the raised bar.  I know with a flat bar, even with ergo grips, I can get some hand numbness after a while.  I didn't get that on the drop bar Homer.

Tim

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[Tim Butterfield]

Hi, Dorothy.

Thanks for the suggestion.  I did some reading on the YWY and will keep it in mind as I build my budget.

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[Tim Butterfield]

Hi, Kim.

Thanks for that link.  I wasn't aware of those.  It would be quite useful if I go that route.  Thanks for the Clem photo also.

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[Kim H.]

Hi Tim, 

You are more than welcome for both my photo of my Clem and the link for those hinged water bottle cage clamps.

Kim Hetzel. 

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[Joe Bernard]

Boscos have a hand position right at the forward curve which mimics the hoods position on a drop bar, plus you can lean forward and ride the flats up front near the stem clamp. I've used all of them but as you can see my bars are cluttered, I mostly just ride the grip area. 

Before this thread gets too far in the weeds about Clems, I don't think it's close to your riding experience on an older Homer. Clems are very long and kinda hefty, I showed mine to illustrate how I've come to embrace low-stepover bicycles. I do encourage testing one though, they come up for sale more often than other Rivs. 

[exliontamer]

I have an older Toyo Atlantis and a Cheviot. A few other Rivs have come & gone but those are the ones I've stuck with. The pre-long chain stay bikes feel a little different but they all ride like Rivendells. Regarding hand positions, I have Billie bars on my Cheviot and they offer a nice amount of room to roam on longer rides. If you're looking for a step through-ish frame that's zippy I think the Gallop is 100% worth looking at. For something similar to older style Rivs that's a bargain, I think the BMC MonsterCross would be a great choice. 

[Tim Butterfield]

Hi, Joe.

Thanks for the bar feedback.  One of the things I was looking for in a bar was to change my back angle between hand positions.  At least the Boscos have both higher/back and lower/front positions.  Thanks for further clarifying the Clems also.

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[Tim Butterfield]

I'm not tied to any frame type yet, other than excluding any suspension frames.  My experience and thus initial preference was for the more normal frames.  Until mentioned here, a low step through was not even a consideration.  It's now on the radar, though not yet a preference.  Thanks for that Charlie Gallop mention, not as tall top bar, but not as low either; nice in between.  Thanks for the MonsterCross mention also.  I've added both to my research DB.

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[Roberta]

Hi Tim and welcome back

I had and still have a 2019 Homer Hilson, which I adore, and I used to have a 2016 Joe Appaloosa which I like a whole lot and is a lot like your Atlantis.  When I bought my platypus, I had to decide which of my current Bikes to sell, and I decided to sell the Joe Appaloosa mostly because my riding was on pavement, MUPs, trails and very little off road and no mountain or Gravel at all.   The two Bikes wrote equally wonderful but certainly different and I went with the Bike that fit the riding that I did do more.   I’m sure you can relate to this.

If I were to come back to Riv I’d look at their with a current Homer or a current Charlie.  It’s a lighter build than the Homer and I love the fact that the top tube is a little lower.   I think that would push you more for credit card touring but because it’s lighter, you’re not going to be doing any heavy duty or moderate duty touring.   

My above opinions are assuming you preferred the Homer don’t mind sticking with lighter frame builds and will do very little off-road.   If you’re going to be doing any off-road, in addition to the other items I commented on I would look into the platypus.  It’s a little bit more heavy duty than the Homer and I think for touring the step over is really nice.  

I did sell my platypus, but I had alreadyreplaced it with a Betty Foy, which fit my storage situation and riding in the city a bit more. Plus, I think the Betty Foy is more like the Homer, which you know I adore.   Of course they both have “shorter “chain stays then the current Riv length and perhaps I just prefer that.  I think if I lived in the country and it would be an easy in and out of the house with the Bike, I would’ve kept the platy.  Overall, I think it does more, but is a bit more stout than the Homer.

Roberta

Philadelphia

[Toshi Takeuchi]

I think the newer Riv bikes have a longer chainstay than the previous versions. I have a Waterford (I think) Homer, and I was lucky enough to get a custom that Grant designed for me with extended chainstays (compared to the Homer). I like the increased feeling of stability that I get from the lengthened chainstay without any handling downsides that I notice.

Since you already know that you like the Homer, I would lean towards recommending another Homer or Sam Hillborne. 

Good luck!

Toshi in Oakland, CA

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[Tim Butterfield]

Hi, Roberta.

Thanks so much for the informative response.   It was interesting how your fleet changed over time and what stayed the same.

I did prefer my Homer to my Atlantis, though either might work now.  The potential for lower prices on a used Sam may sway me in that direction.  It depends on what budget I can collect.

My return to Riv is more likely to be with a used bike instead of new.  So, the current page descriptions provide information subject to change with the prior variations.  Bikeinsights.com is helping me check some of those differences.

I did a bit more digging on the Charlie.  While the lower top bar is appealing, I’m not sure it would work for me.  I’ve read some reviews that discuss frame flexing both with the swoop top bar and the later straight top bar.  The Riv page on it also has a weight limit, which I exceed by just a bit.  Thus, I would likely experience the frame flex if I tried it.  The Homer page doesn’t mention a limit and I’m within limits on the Sam, so those are still options.  My prior Homer was fine for me also at a bit above my current weight.

The majority of my riding as I get familiar with a new (to me) bike will likely be greenway.  I’m adjacent (access via a drainage easement between neighboring houses) to the Neuse River trail in east Raleigh.  Between that and connected trails, I have the potential for 40+ mile round trips without vehicle traffic.  Of course, I would eventually like to expand on that as mentioned previously.

Thanks again.

Tim

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[Tim Butterfield]

Hi, Toshi.

Thanks for the response.  It's interesting how you had a custom that is similar to the longer chainstays of the more recent model.  It's good to know that extra  length only makes it better.  I haven't finalized a decision yet (no rush), but another Homer or a Sam are filling the top of my list at the moment.

Tim

Raleigh, NC

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[Gordon Stam]

Hey Tim, Congrats on getting back into a Riv. Whatever you get I don't think you can go wrong. Regarding bars may I put in a plug for the Choco bars? I have them on my Charlie and have commented on them before. I have them mounted upside down and tillted down 15 degrees or so. I find they give me at least three hand positions: at the ends, gripping them like a wheelbarow handle; just in front of the brakes, for a more forward lean; and up on the curve, for a way forward lean. Climbing works in all positions. Where I really think they shine is descending. When you have you hands back on the straight section it feels like you're really tucked in, like with clip-ons on a motorcycle. The Billie Bar is similar but with more flair, longer straight section, which interfered somewhat with my knees on tight turn (cut them down? horrors!), and a sharper bend up front. I prefer that ~90 degree bend on the Chocos. In all I find them very sporty and a good substitute for drops.

Here's a link to a bunch of Charlie pics, sort of an evolution of the bike over the season. Look for the two latest, labeled Side View and Top View.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1mgicFKOyMn9XFgsYRyrDr036-TS__txs?usp=drive_link

[Tim Butterfield]

Hi, Gordon.

Thanks and thanks for the info on your bar experiences.  It's interesting you tilted yours.  Having three positions would be enough for me.  I looked at your top view photo first and wondered where the brakes were, then saw them in the side pic.  Hmm.

I read the riv article on the drop bar alternatives also.  I think I'm coming around towards non-drop bars.  I don't know yet if they would work for me, but it would be interesting to try.

Thanks for the discussions of these.

Tim

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[rlti...@gmail.com]



I finally just got my Platypus on the road finally. I bought it primarily to be an errand bike for the errands I don’t need the cargo bike for. I figured as a plus it has the step through frame so as I age that could be a benefit. That was likely more of a new bike justification than an actual need but I had been wanting to try out the step through frames Riv has been offering lately.

I have ridden Bromptons and Bike Fridays for years so the step through frames are not new to me. But the bike rides really well despite the somewhat odd frame and nobody has hurled any derogatory comments at me yet. I live in SoCal so people are used to oddities here.

The albatross bars have been comfortable. For me so far they have two useful positions. One on the grips and one where the bars curve back inwards and back. Somewhat similar to moustache bars.

So I would not dismiss the step through frames. They ride like a Riv and are pretty fun.

Robert Tilley

San Diego, CA

Sent from my iPhone

[Glenn Mackin]

I can definitely second the Platypus suggestion. It's become my everything bike: commuting (wth a basket and BagBoy Saddlesack for hauling stuff), rail trails/light gravel, road riding, even some longer touring. I decided to get a Charlie Gallop for faster group riding and for longer rides in the country, but since I haven't gotten it yet, I can't comment further on it. 

Here's a pic from a recent 30-miler near Rochester, NY (mostly trails, but nothing technical or single track):

[Tim Butterfield]

Hi, Robert.

Thanks for the input.  I haven't dismissed step-thru in general.  The Charlie page did mention a rider weight limit I currently exceed.  It's nice that the Platypus usage description includes both loaded and unloaded touring in addition to my normal road riding.  So, that would allow the step-thru without that extra concern about weight.  I could also see that style as possibly more suited to a flatter bar instead of drops.  There might be hope for me yet.  lol

Tim

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[Tim Butterfield]

Hi, Glen.

Thanks for that additional vote for the Platypus and the description of your usage of it.  Your's looks nice.  Thanks for the photo.

Tim

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[Bill Shaw]

Hi Tim,

Regarding the rider weight limit on Charlie, I spoke with someone at RBW earlier this year about this as I was hovering at and just above the limit. I was told that the weight listed was more or less a placeholder they used and shouldn't be taken literally. As long as you are not overloaded with too much gear on your rides and you yourself aren't miles over the weight limit, you'lll be fine. I purchased a 61cm size this past Feb and it's a blast to ride with no issues on the weight thing. 

Bill 

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[Tim Butterfield]

Hi, Bill.

Thanks for the info about that conversation.  I'm just a bit over and hope to keep dropping.  And, as I'm just getting back to rebuilding fitness, I will be the only load to start.  So, the Charlie might still be an option.

Tim

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[EGNolan]

Tim,
It honestly sounds like a Sam Hillborne or Roadini would fit your riding without having to "get over a hurdle." They've both got short (for Riv) chainstays, fit 700's in your size, have a short enough top tube that drops are useful. Another AHH could work as well, though likely in a smaller size if you're buying new. Sam's are out of stock currently in your size, but Roadnini's are avaialble today! I imagine a former 57 AHH equates more to a current 54 Roadini.

While I enjoy upright bikes alongside bikes with drops, unlike others here, I wouldn't think you should change your mind before buying a bike. You know how you like to ride and I think you should get a bike capable of meeting your needs today. If those needs change, you can always add a Platypus, Yellowolley, Clem or whatever they happen to have at that time. I've had a Roadini, Cheviot, Bleriot and Applaoosa, but the only bike I can't seem to get rid of is a late 90's Rivendell Road. Perfect size, stoutness and ideal for the actual riding I do. I could put enough racks on it to tour if I wanted, it fits 35's or 32's with fenders. I think for that, the Roadini is even better (and better clearances than my first round tig'd version).

Good luck, God Speed and I hope you find one ya like.

Best,
Eric

[Tony Lockhart]

Echoing what Eric said. Also, I have both of these bikes and appreciate how versatile and comfortable each one is. Having tried drops and flat bars on both, racks and bags on both, I think the Hillborne is better suited as a country bike while the Roadini is better for club rides and zipping around town. If I had to keep one, it'd be the Sam without hesitation. Tim--good luck with your choice.

[Dan]

To add to this, I have a theory that the current Roadini is very very similar to the OG Homer. I mean, Will at Riv has said that the Roadini and the current Homer are very very similar, but when I look at the geometry, clearances and use case of the old Homer it's a very close match to a current Roadini. Especially now that the Roadini has clearance for wide tyres and front rack mounts etc.

All that is to say: you can't go wrong, and go with what draws you in! That's the real trick.

[Tim Butterfield]

Hi, Eric.

Thanks for the feedback.  The 54 Roadini available on the site would likely work well.  I could even eventually get it set up similar to the AHH I last had if I wanted.  It is extremely tempting.  I'll probably need to have a chat with Will to check some things on it to see if I could swing another new complete bike or if I need to put my Park stand to use and build the frame up myself.

Thanks

Tim

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[Tim Butterfield]

Hi, Tony.

It's a tough choice.  Thanks for your viewpoint.  I could likely find a Sam used or maybe settle (lol) on the Roadini frame and build it.

Thanks

Tim

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[Tim Butterfield]

Hi, Dan.

That struck me when reading the Roadini page also and viewing the pictures.  It's sized at 38 tires with fenders with a triple crank set.  That's what my 2016 Homer had. also.  While I had added dyno wheels, light, and rack to my Homer, I didn't really use those much.  A seat bag was usually sufficient.  So, for what I used my Homer for, the current Roadini could likely perform that same task, just on the opposite coast.  While I'm tempted to test a flatter bar, that the Roadini is drop bar oriented matches how my Hower was set up also.  Of course, the current version is green or orange instead of blue.  lol  Not an issue, though I'd probably sell my larger blue Riv seat bag.  The more I think about this, the more I like it.  I'll have a conversation with Will and see what happens.

Thanks

Tim

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[Dorothy C]

Tim 

I love Roadinis and have two of them. A lugged lime olive with Noodles, and an orange tigged from the September 2022 sale, that I have set up with Albastache bars with rise, and wool grips on the bar ends. Lugged is 3x9 and the tigged has the recently released Silver 3 - 42/30 guarded double, also with a 9 speed cassette. They are my leisure ride bikes, but can both manage a Slimsucker bag if I need. I usually ride them with a Banana sack on the saddle. 

[Tim Butterfield]

Hi, Dorothy.

Thanks for the extra votes for the Roadini.  That you have two at the same time is extra nice.  I'm considering the current green with Noodles.  I would likely use it similar to you, sack on the saddle.

Tim

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