650b vs. 700c Atlantis: anyone with experience?

[esoterica etc]

Howdy all,

I'm wondering if anyone out there has any comparative riding experience with both the new 650b Atlantis in a 56cm, and the older-style 700c Atlantis in a size 58cm. My pbh is 87.5 which would put me on the 650 if I were to buy new, and the 700 if I were to buy used. I did own a 58 Atlantis many years ago, before the wide-tire phenomenon really got momentum. Even though I never rode anything wider than a 38 on my Atlantis, I just thought that bike was the bee's knees. Unfortunately, times were tight and I ended up having to sell it. But I'm now in a position to afford another Atlantis, although I would have to go with the 56cm/650b size if I were to buy new from Rivendell. Since I live on the other side of the country, a visit to their shop to test ride one is pretty much out of the question.

In the years since selling the Atlantis, I've built up a handful of Riv'ified bikes that I've found on Craigslist and garage sales, mostly old 80's MTB frames. I think I've gotten to the point now that I'm really comfortable and happy on the 26" platform and have been really enjoying riding tires between 40-53mm (1.6-2.1"). I've never really ridden anything 650b before, but I feel that I might be more inclined to veer in that direction because 650b is closer to 26" than it is to 700c, and the ability to ride slightly wider tires is certainly a influential factor. But I also can't shake the memories of just how darn good my old 700c Atlantis felt.

So I'm hoping there's folks on the list (maybe Bill Lindsay, from your recent spontaneous ride on the 650b Atlantis with Grant?) who have ridden and can chime in on their impressions of one or the other, what you liked and didn't like, and which would you choose and for what reason(s)? Thanks for lending an ear, and hope y'all are having a great holiday season. All the best,

~Mark

[Matt Beecher]

Are you referring to the MUSA Atlantis, or MIT. I opted for a 61cm Atlantis, then bought a 56 MIT too. I think the old ones look quite a bit nicer, but I find that I ride the 56 more.

I attribute that because I don’t mind locking it up outside. I also like 650b quite a bit. I get more stand over, but it also feels like I can go uphill easier. (Not looking for an argument here. It is my personal opinion with no science to back it up.).

I’ve only recently put huge tires on the old Atlantis, so I cannot compare the advantage of 700c x 55mm yet.

Best regards,
Matt Beecher

[Matt Beecher]

I should note that I think we have the same pbh. Traditional 58cm frames hurt my knees.

[Drw]

My feeling is that if you intend to use big/heavier tires, you should go 650b. I had a 700c Hunq with 50mm+ tires and it was difficult to get going and keep going up hills. I know that the 29er platform has benefits in mtb scenarios, but I didn’t see it on the roads or fire roads I was riding it on.The Atlantis is designed for bigger tires, so itd be a shame to not use that capacity.

I have a 650b (musa) Atlantis now with 50mm tires and it’s not fast feeling bike by any means, but it doesn’t feel like I’m riding thru sand for the first 30 feet after a stop either.

[WETH]

Mark,
Another significant difference will be the chainstay length. The new Atlantis has longer by 7cm. I used to own an Atlantis, older style 56cm with 26” wheels. I currently own a newer style 56cm Hunq with 650b wheels. The longer stays make for a more stable feeling ride. Others will be able to describe the difference longer stays make more articulately.
If you live near Washington DC you are welcome to test ride my 56cm Hunq.
Best wishes,
Erl
Kensington, MD

[dougP]

Mark:

If you look up "53 cm Atlantis LWB test ride" here in this group, you'll find my thoughts on the subject.  I know you asked about the 56 cm but I think the 53 cm would not be much different.  I ride a 58 cm Atlantis & have an 85 cm PBH.  Riv's current sizing would put me on a 53 cm.  My PBH is in the overlap between 56 & 58 on the sizing used in 2003. 

The short version is the longer wheelbase makes a noticeable improvement in comfort (which is already good on an Atlantis), yet does not give up anything in handling or manuverability.  IIRC, Rivendell has a standard build on the current models that's similar to the F&F of the Toyo & Waterfords (please check on this).  You get a heck of lot of cluck for your buck. 

dougP

[Bill Lindsay]

I did previously own a 58cm 700c Atlantis.  It was a frameset I picked up on the list, and I did a really nice build on it.  A neighbor/acquaintance talked me into selling it to him, to match the one his wife runs.  My Saddle Height is 75.5cm. 

I think the traditional pre-MIT 700c Atlantis is a classic.  A masterpiece.  An ultimate loaded road-touring machine.  It's a tremendous bike, but it is 2018.  The old-style 700c Atlantis is becoming more and more of an artifact, like a time capsule from 1995.  Time capsule bikes can be cool, and if that is what you are after, there is not a better example.  Trust me, I like time capsule bikes.  I have an "eroica bike", among others that are somewhat nostalgic machines.  There is a great deal of appeal in a throwback bike. 

The flipside is that the 650B Atlantis is a ton more evolved, in my opinion.  As you saw I rode up and down Diablo on mountain bike trails on the 650B Atlantis, with it's 2.2" tires.  I asserted to Grant that a 650B Atlantis is a VASTLY superior mountain bike to any Bridgestone that Grant ever designed, and he said "No contest".  The fact that it's a fantastic road bike as well just shows how evolved it is.  I would have been seriously underbiking on a 700c Atlantis on that ride.  The upslope TT gets the bars up way higher way easier.  The long chainstays are add a ton of stability without sacrificing any of the maneuverability.  I would not hesitate to choose the 650B Atlantis.  The only reasons I can think of to choose the 700C version is nostalgia and a more 'traditional' aesthetic, or some handwringing over tire availability when you are third world touring. 

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

On Sunday, December 16, 2018 at 6:25:40 AM UTC-8, esoterica etc wrote:

[tc]

Mark, 

I have not ridden an MIT Atlantis.  I have a Toyo 64 Atlantis.  It is the bike I'd keep if I could only keep one.  It's not because it looks like a classic (it does), and it's not because it's viewed as a classic by others (it is).  It's because the geometry, the balance, the handling (unloaded, and with a 20-30 lb load on the back), the weight, and responsiveness of the steering are so dang wonderful -- for me --  that it's almost uncanny.  Especially since it's technically too big.  I love my other Riv's, and look fwd to riding each on a given day.  My Clem and my former Sam had longer chain stays, and raised up head tubes.  They are/were great!  But my Atlantis is the dog I let in at night to sleep in the house :)  

It is possible an MIT Atlantis could be made to feel the same, tom me -- who knows.  I hope Grant sells a zillion of them.  I hope I can get out to Riv sometime and try one that's about the same geometry as mine to compare.

I guess the point is to try your level best to find and ride both and see what YOU think.  Me saying my Toyo Atlantis is perfect should mean nothing to you, other than I'm just another guy who got lucky with a bike and setup that fits my body and preferences for a bike.  Same with other reviews, unless there's a wide-spread, consistent issue (or crowning achievement) that keeps popping up with one or the other.

Tom

[Todd Ferguson]

Mark- When I was out from NYC to Riv headquarters in October they measured my pbh at 87.5. They loaned my son and me a pair of atlantises and I rode the 56cm all over town and Shell ridge trails. I loved the 56 and I usually ride larger bikes on road (60 ram, 62 quickbeam). I tried the 59 but felt more comfortable on the 56 even with a long torso at 6'.

Bill did you ride the one with the bright pink newbaums affixing the light? I felt that bike was set up perfectly for me.

Todd in NYC

[Bill Lindsay]

Todd in NYC asked if the 56cm 650b Atlantis I rode had a light affixed with pink newbaums

It did not. It had no light at all. It did have Choco bars and a C17 saddle. 173mm triple cranks and Deore v-brakes

[Jonathan D.]

I can’t compare the MIT Atlantis to original Atlantis but can compare the 58 Toyo Atlantis to 55 Joe Appaloosa. From my understanding the Joe Appaloosa is a 700c version of the MIT Atlantis.

The JA’s long chain stays make a real difference and add a ride quality that is hard to describe. The bike seems to float, almost like it is on water. I thought the bike felt slow but then I took a bunch of heavy kid bearing racks off it and switched to lighter wheels and 42 mm tires and the bike feels transformed. I am not fast, I never am, but the bike moves now and compares to the Toyo Atlantis.

The Toyo Atlantis is stable and quick but doesn’t have the boat feeling. The Toyo Atlantis does feel more sporty and like a bike I would put drops on. I wouldn’t put drops on the JA but then it has a long top tube. I would carry more weight on the JA I think but I would probably still use the Atlantis for a lighter ride.

In the end they are both great bikes you can’t go wrong with either.