Clem Chainstay Ding Peer Review Request

[Chris Halasz]

Received a used XL Clem frame, and the removed fork separated from its packaging, and nestled into the chainstay. 

The ding is about a third of an inch long, a quarter inch wide, and 0.023" deep. 

Curious to know whether others have experienced similar, and whether there's consensus for repair. 

I'll refrain from biasing the jury. 

The interface: 

Closeup of the damage. 

Thanks all! 

Chris 

[Josiah Anderson]

If it were mine, I wouldn't worry about it – those chainstays are more than strong enough, and since it's steel you'd have lots of warning if it did start to become a problem. It's also hidden behind the chainrings so you won't be seeing it and being bothered by it. On the other hand, I totally understand being upset to recieve a new-to-you frame with unanticipated damage, and hopefully you can figure something out with the seller if you feel the need to.

Josiah Anderson

Missoula MT

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[Patrick Moore]

If I were the buyer, I'd expect the seller to compensate me for the damage. The damaged was the result of a packing or shipping problem that occurred after you examined and paid for the goods. If the seller packed it well but the shipper caused the damage, then it is the seller's responsibility to compensate you and get reimbursement from the shipper.

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[Mathias Steiner]

(i) what Patrick said -- proper packaging is on the seller.
some store credit, everyone happy.

(ii) not a big deal except it's painful on a new frame. go look at threads about 650b conversions with chainstay crimping.

i would obsess about it for a bit -- i put a bb-sized ding in a new frame once -- i know the feeling.

took me a decade to decide it's just an anecdote.

(iii) bright idea of the day: cover it with a chainring (it's genius)!
[sry been seeing too many clickbait adds]

(iv) the chain will drop on their enough times to make it look like #&^% in any case.

if it doesn't, reassess your riding.

cheers -mathias

[Eric Daume]

I agree with Patrick, but at the same time, I wouldn't have a structural concern about it. Chainstays are built tough.

Eric

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[ascpgh]

Tough scenario...

I agree with Patrick, it's a new to you item damaged from when you put your money  into the bike you wanted but is now different of condition. A detail that kicking in your buyer's foothold includes is the seller's option to refund you and take it back. I'm thinking that may not be the resolution that best suits your interest in this purchase.

I agree with Josiah that this is essentially a cosmetic fault at this time, it's close enough to a weld that there is plenty of metal in that tube's wall thickness. Being at the low end of the frame, if it was mine, I'd pick the flaked paint until I reached the margin of the firmly intact and execute a DYI spot refinish/repaint to protect the bare metal and ride on. 

Once you mount the BB and your crank, the spot of that ding and the degradation to the nice Clem you found will be difficult to see. This is on par with chainsuck damage occurring to folks who subsequently had no issues with for many miles and years of riding.  I think you could touch up the fork crown ding with adequate fill and finish to make it easily get lost in the enjoyment of the riding. 

I'd land in the middle and ask the seller for a little perk for the fork and stay damage, dress the paint nicks appropriately, build it up and ride. I don't think anyone would consider my Rambouillet's patina-ed condition in comparison, it would probably rank as salvage under the 20 years' "beausage" as Grant defined. I think it's next level, what I think of as beausavage. Nothing structural (broken rear dropout replaced with a new pair and the  brake bridge re-brazed) but definitely aesthetically detrimental, and I love it still.

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

[Chris Halasz]

Thanks all so much for your thoughtful and generous input! The consistent nature of the responses was welcomed. 

The frame is a keeper, and the seller is sending a refund. The seller offered for the frame and fork to be returned, but that would've incurred losses on all sides, including my return of the parts I was receiving from RBW for the build. 

Off to find some primer and paint today to cover the dings, and will be sure to post photos of that build once complete! 

 - Chris 

[Chris Halasz]

The Clem chain stay ding on the Clem I received, you may recall, looked like this: 

And is now touched up with a heart-shaped tint and shade of pink in an homage to the Platypus lugs: 

The bike is now built and was ridden a few times in the hills and along the coast, and on a couple group rides, now that the generous West Coast rains (may) have passed. The only Clem I rode previous to this was Grant’s, a couple years ago, and I’ve wanted one ever since. I thought mine would be an unnoticed change since my previous group rides. I was surprised by how much people on their e- and carbon bikes took to the Clem’s appearance: 

The 64cm Clem build includes a Brooks B68 with 60mm Toscos on a 70mm Nitto stem (that's a 90mm Nitto Pearl in the photos, but I went with the shorter option), XT hubs on Alex rims with Oracle Ridge tires, Deore brakes, no-name crank with RBW chainguard, c.1990 Jannd saddle bag that has been on many, many nice Rivendells since then, and a new Arkel ’Signature’ handlebar bag that quickly transforms into a(n over-the-) shoulder bag. I'm about an 88cm PBH, and weigh in at about twelve stone. Saddle is at about 78cm. Bars top out a little over 3" above the saddle mid-section, and I may raise the bars another quarter inch or so. 

I have never ridden a more comfortable bike, and the only one as comfortable, to me, is the Platypus, but the Clem feels unique to the Platy. The Oracle Ridge tires feel and appear a bit slower than a set of 35mm Contis while climbing a section of paved road, judging by who passed me at the top of the climb on their e- and carbon bikes, but a worthwhile trade for having the traction and the wider tread while off-road on rougher stuff, which is why I wanted a Clem in the first place. Cheers to Grant, Will, Mark, James, Roman, and everyone else at RBW for their continued hard work and bold innovation. Riding this bike is so much fun. 

This purchase and build all started with someone offering me those Oracle Ridge tires, in great condition, for $20 a piece, with brand new Schwalbe tubes for a few dollars more, while we were out on the East Coast this winter. Thought the tires would be too wide for another bike I had, so good excuse for an upgrade, right (anyone interested in a 58cm LHT)? 

One of these days going to post a video of some local rides, and see if we can’t get some interest on a summer or fall group gathering through this area of the Central Coast. 

Cheers

Chris 

[Patrick Moore]

Good cosmetic job on the dent, and good on ya for the equanimity about the slight defect.

You say that the Clem "feels unique to the Platypus." I take it that you mean that the Clem feels sufficiently different to the Platypus that you can perceive, and appreciate, the difference. Can you describe that difference? As someone who has vague hankerings after a Clem I'd be interested to hear what others feel makes it "unique."

Oracle Ridges: lovely tires. I recently got a 2nd wheelset for my Matthews "road bike for dirt" and shod it with ORs regular casings, this to get decent pavement handling and rolling with better traction, float, and stability in sand than I got with the Soma Supple Vitesse SLs on the first wheelset. For this bike, I believe that the ORs are the Goldilocks tire: roll surprisingly well on pavement -- better than any other knobby I've used, if not as well as the Somas, corner on pavement as well as the Somas, and very definitely give me more float and directional control than the Somas, which sink and plough. 

If anyone has any Oracle Ridges for sale (Regular or Extralight; not interested in Endurance) please contact me offlist.

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[Chris Halasz]

Patrick 

I almost, and probably should have, refrained from comparing the Clem with the Platypus. 

I built the 60cm Platypus with 42mm Graveling SS tires and Crust Juan Martin bars, front rack, often with a beloved little dog in the front basket rack. The Clem is a 64cm with Tosco bars, 48mm Oracle Ridge tires, and no racks. Surely all of that is part of the change. 

It feels a little more sure - to me - with the type of riding I’m doing now: a little less road, a few more rocky trails (images to follow in another thread). 

I’m highly visual, and while I couldn’t argue that the Platypus is the more objectively beautifully built frame, there’s something downright compelling to me about the largest Clem and the way the top and down tubes diverge at the steerer tube, and the way my somewhat dyslexic brain works, that translate to *me* finding myself more at home on this build; it feels a bit more like an extension of me, or maybe I just feel more sure with the Clem in the type of riding I’m doing now. I’ve grown more accustomed to riding upright, and maybe that extra inch or so of chainstay suits the riding I’m doing now.  

- Chris 

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks for the clarifications and precisions. I'm more auditory than visual so I do appreciate the apercus of someone who is visual about the Clem's appearance. Also, can the Clem take wider tires than the Platypus? At any rate, if I ever get a Clem, it will be for dawdling about on pavement and on sandy roads and trails so I'd need a minimum width of 48.

Please do post more offroad photos of the Clem.

[DavidP]

Chris, thanks for posting the update including photos of the final build. That's great looking Clem and nice touch up work! I love to hear stories of bikes being built around a single part, this may be the first I've heard of a bike being built around a set of tires!

Re: comparisons to the Platypus, the longer WB on the Clem may have something do to with it, though your tire selections definitely will make a difference. My Platy is built similarly to your Clem (50mm GravelKing SKs and 65cm Tosco bars).

Patrick, the Clem can do tires up to 2.6 or ~2.25 fendered. The Platypus can do ~2.1-2.2"; mine's running VO 63mm fenders over those 2" GravelKings.

-Dave

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Dave. I think I might fall between sizes, between the 52 and the 59 and, inclined to go small, the 52 alas is spec'd for 650B instead of my preferred 700C. But perhaps a 59 would be alright as long as I don't want a drop bar.* I don't know my PBH but a 60 X 56 c-c fits perfectly with 9 cm stem and fistful of seatpost -- 4/3 scale Asian build with more of height in torso.

But if the 52 and 650B, good to know that it can take ~58s with fenders.

* And my daydreams of a Clem have it built with some sort of sweepback bar, but that too is a question as every bar I've used except standard drops hurts my left palm.

On Thu, Apr 18, 2024 at 11:25 AM DavidP <dphi...@gmail.com> wrote:

... Patrick, the Clem can do tires up to 2.6 or ~2.25 fendered. The Platypus can do ~2.1-2.2"; mine's running VO 63mm fenders over those 2" GravelKings.

-Dave

[Chris Halasz]

Patrick, 

If Grant can ride a 64cm with an 85cm PBH, you should be fine on a 59cm frame (assuming you can do so without drop bars). 

I'm happily on the 64cm with an 89cm PBH; I used to ride a 62cm Rivendell Road Standard, a 61 Bleriot, and a 60cm Bombadil. 

- Chris 

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Chris, good to know that I can probably ride a size that takes 700C wheels. This information goes to the archive. Yes, if I get a Clem it would be to use it with sweep-back or "tourist" bars of some sort.

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