1400 front derailers

[Bill Lindsay]

On the March 18th email update, Rivendell reported that the container full of frames would also contain 1400 Front Derailers.  They indicated this model will work with all their bikes, but they didn't say exactly what it is, giving it the nickname "skeleton key".  I wonder how much space 1,400 front derailers will take up.  

For those who don't know what's special about "Rivendell Front Derailers", it's a combination of a few things:

1. Rivendells typically have a bit more BB drop than most other bikes

2. Rivendell builds often have a small-sized "big" chainring.  Like a 42 big ring, or a 38, or a 34!

3. Rivendells typically have a more laid back Seat Tube Angle than most other bikes

the combination of those three things brings the trailing edge of the front derailer down close to the chainstays.  So close, that in many cases you flat out can't set up the front derailer "correctly".  You have to run it floating way above the chainrings.  For a lot of people, this works just fine, and some people actually brag about it.  When somebody claims that Combination X is a problem, it's fun to retort "I have Combination X and it's just fine!"  

Anyhow, 650B bikes have less of this problem (because less BB drop).  Still, it's something to think about.  I prepared by stocking up on Shimano CX70 Front Derailers when they existed, and now I'm super stingy with those.  I'm going to give the "skeleton key" FD a look and may buy a few of those also.  As an amateur machinist and maker, I've even dabbled with making my own Front Derailers.  

Or, you can avoid this altogether and run a 1xDrivetrain!

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Conway Bennett]

I find front derailleurs tedious to setup, and I rarely need them.  Advent X is the best solution in my opinion.  But I also live in th second flattest state.

[Joe Mullins]

I’m not sure if I missed it but does anyone know what these derailleurs look like?

Thanks,

Joe in Los Angeles

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[Bill Lindsay]

I have no idea what the skeleton key front derailer looks like.  For whatever that's worth.  

BL in EC

[Conway Bennett]

It's probably an actual skeleton key similar to the stick shift method they used to espouse.

Fair winds,

Captain Conway Bennett
239.877.4119

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[Bill Lindsay]

I would bet a dollar that it is an actual cable-actuated front derailer.  :-)  Sticks grow on trees.  Front derailers do not.  

BL in EC

[Garth]

The reference of a "skeleton key" derailleur is a figure of speech, dontcha know ? 

You betcha it is .....

Referring to "one derailleur suitable for everything" ..... like a master key to open any lock, so to speak. The "everything" in this case refers to the bikes Riv designs, contracts, and configures for customers.

I emailed Grant a while ago about FD's and he mentioned the incoming FD was a model that they had sold before, that took 48-50 tooth rings. So if anyone has a good memory or archive it would reveal itself. So no, it won't be some odd doohickey to move the chain around !

[E. Ricky Creek]

It is probably some version of the IRD sub compact. 

My last apartment had a side door that took a skeleton key. I had a box of old keys and one worked on that door. I found another similar key and filed it down to work, too. So that became the door we always used, because why wouldn't I? This was just a few years ago. 

[TP H]

Made by MicroShift but no model mention: https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/grant-petersens-blog/early-april

[Michael Baquerizo]

grant did mention that aesthetically theyre nothing to write home about so...don't get your hopes up.

[Garth]

So it's here and I must say it looks awful !   (((( laughing )))))   While I recognize it from the Microshift catalog,  at least they don't need to be worrying over FD supply anytime soon, so three cheers for that !

[Bill Lindsay]

Garth said the skeleton key front derailer looks awful.  Awful looks are in the eye of the beholder, HAHA.  I like the look of it very much.  I especially like the compact and simple cage.  The clamp material looks like it would be fun to modify and personalize.  $32 and available are also very attractive attributes.  I'll grab a couple of them, and have a few plans for them.  

Have a look:  Derailer - Front - Stubby Skeleton Key – Rivendell Bicycle Works (rivbike.com)

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[John Hawrylak]

Bill

Great report.    RBW had these FD's on the website on Fri, 5/20/22, and they looked ok to me.

  

They state a 48.8mm chainline.      This seems excessive if you are using a 45mmm chainline road triple, like an XD-2.  The FD may not have inward swing to shift to the Inner chain ring. 

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

[Bill Lindsay]

Also note that this front derailer is intended for a large chainring of 42 teeth or smaller and 14T of total difference.  I doubt there are a lot of people running an XD2 road triple with a 42 tooth big ring and only 14T of difference.  What would that be: 28/34/42?  I doubt there are many people with that setup.  It'll be the perfect FD for a Gus/Susie with a 34/24 double wrapped around huge tires.  

If there's somebody out there running an XD2 triple with two rings and a guard, then that person maybe has a 40/26 or something on their Roadini.  If that person has no front derailer, then they might indeed have a hard time getting this one to pull the chain to the small ring.  

Anyway, I will give it a look on my Black Mountain Monster Cross, which will have a 38/24 double on it soon.  I've got a few different FD options for that setup, and I'll give the skeleton key FD a look as I dial it in.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[John Hawrylak]

Bill

My comment on the Skeleton Key FD chain line was meant for a full triple, not a XD-2 with a guard for the outer ring.  For a triple set up as a double, the chainline should not be problem for Skeleton Key FD, since it only needs to move 8 to 10mm to shift the Middle/Inner rings.

On the Skeleton Key FD webite, RBW states:  "This will work with all Silver cranks"      RBW sells a Silver triple with 3 chainrings.   The Skeleton Key may have problem with shifting to the Inner ring.

What is your Rear chain line on your Monster Cross??

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

[Bill Lindsay]

I will go out on a limb here and predict that Rivendell went ahead and checked whether it would work before buying one thousand four hundred of them.  They are the ones who have to set up their own bikes.  

The chainline on the Black Mountain Monster Cross is standard Shimano Road Chainline.  43.5mm by the book, or 42mm by my measurement.  The Skeleton key will either work or I'll be modifying a derailleur.  Besides the awesome cage shape, I like the 34.9mm clamp.  I may decide to turn an eccentric spacer set to pull it inboard a few mm.  We'll see.  Summer projects.  I'm in the thick of making my own front derailleur as well.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[John Hawrylak]

Bill

The RBW Skeleton Key kinda looks like a MicroShift MarvoFD, see MicroShift link 

Marvo Front Derailleur 2x9 | microSHIFT

same funky 48.8mm front chain line & 14T capacity.  If so, at 1,400, RBW must have bought an entire production run.  At least Microshift states this a 2x9, not a One Size Fits All.

John Hawrylak

Woodstown 

[Corwin]

I judge stuff like derailleurs/derailers based on how well they work.

If something works really well, it's appearance actually grows on me. Pretty dramatically.

I really hate stuff that looks pretty but does not work - or is difficult to setup or maintain, fails frequently, etc.

Thanks,

Corwin

[Bill Lindsay]

Back in May I indicated that I may decide to turn an eccentric spacer for the Skeleton Key front derailer.  I finally went ahead and did that today.  

For a little background here, most Rivendells have a 28.6mm seat tube, and most Rivendells take a clamp on front derailer.  Very few front derailers today are made with a 28.6mm clamp.  Almost all clamp on front derailers are made with a larger clamp diameter and they come with a plastic spacer to fit smaller diameter seat tubes.  The increments of seat tube diameter are 1/8", so 28.6mm = 1-1/8" , 31.8mm = 1-1/4", 34.9mm = 1-3/8".  The Skeleton Key front derailer is a 34.9mm model, and it comes with two different plastic spacers to fit the next two sizes down.  The Skeleton Key front derailer was made for a chain line that is "pretty wide" which would be great for a Gus/Susie but maybe not so great for a roadish bike.  

I have been preparing to set up an ultra compact, low-Q-factor drivetrain on my Black Mountain Monster Cross, and the key missing bit is the perfect front derailer.  I like the cage shape of the Skeleton Key, but not the wide chainline.  Since I need to run a plastic spacer anyway to make that 34.9mm clamp fit my 28.6mm seat tube, I decided to make my own eccentric spacer on my small lathe.  As a first shot I only did about 2.5mm of eccentricity.  Depending on how I position my spacer, I can bring my Skeleton Key 2.5mm further in or 2.5mm further out.  

Pictures prove I was machining plastic today:  https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/albums/72177720303067081

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Collin A]

I like it Bill! When I worked in a machine shop I always found working with acrylic more frustrating than working with metal, but it was great for prototyping stuff (less $$$) if it didn't crack and shatter!

Cheers,

Collin, surrounded by IronMen Racers this weekend, in Sacramento