Introduction with ulterior motive

[JP]

Hello I’m JP. I was at The Concord Willows REI 10 years ago and a person had a shirt that said “Rivendell lugged bikes” on it or something. I did an internet search when I got home and was converted by the wisdom immediately. Took a lunch trip over to the shop and met Kevin, eventually created a “bike tree” of about 9 bikes with my own evangelizing. With my Sam being #2 after getting my dad to buy a homer.

Fast forward to today and I’ve since changed jobs houses and had more kids.

Where I’ve moved has a relatively steep hill that had put me off riding for a while. My Sam has a double crank with road bike oriented size rings that was great until I moved.
But with the help of a car rack and covid 19 I’ve stared again.

I’m bummed I missed the 2018 Rivendell stress as I would have helped a bit. I was having some work stress then too and missed it.

Anyway thinking of selling my Sam and Will@rbw said to look on here.

Really excited to be riding again in any case!

[Dorothy C]

Why sell the Sam and not just put a new crank and cassette on it?

[Deacon Patrick]

Welcome, JP!

I second Dorthy's question, and add one:

- walk the hill? The lowest common gear (LCG every bike has. Walking is never a failure, always an option, and sometimes the best option. Grin.

With abandon,

Patrick, who rides fixed gear 70" most milage, 55" gear for single track on Pikes Peak, which includes LCG now and again.

[JP]

Sorry i meant to say my dad's homer with a triple isn't UNpleasant (really it is pleasant)!!

On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 10:08:24 AM UTC-7, JP wrote:

I don't mind walking at all, it's not so so steep - but it is long - my dad's homer with a triple isn't a pleasant experience.  

[Joe Bernard]

Well don't be shy, let's see that Sam!

[Deacon Patrick]

Gotcha. As another alternative, you can learn to climb with greater power/torque at a slower cadence. In effect, you are doing a one-legged squat with each pedal stroke, while pulling up on the bars. The trick is to do so with partial power and continue to slow breathe (I nose breathe only, save for fully anaerobic climbs and/or climbs at higher altitude (starting around 11k feet). It takes a bit to get used to it, but it uses anaerobic power with aerobic effort, if that makes sense.

With abandon,

Patrick

On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 11:08:24 AM UTC-6, JP wrote:

I don't mind walking at all, it's not so so steep - but it is long - my dad's homer with a triple isn't a pleasant experience.  

On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 9:40:58 AM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:

[Deacon Patrick]

Oh, and I forgot to repeat, just swap your cranks for a tirpple or a wide double and you're all set. Grin.

With abandon,

Patrick

[JP]

Yes i'm learning about options with regard to new gearing - i have a few technical questions about it.  I don't mind coasting a bit downhill as well if that's a limitation of a double that requires less torque from me.

[James / Analog Cycles]

You can have ultra low gears (lower than any stock bike) and keep decently high gears.  You just need to be willing to operate outside the box a bit.  You can even use a double... but you need a specific kinda double, a wide range one, like the White Industries VBC road cranks.  A 44/24 combo up front and a 11-40 cassette in the back let you ride really low low gears, but still keep your high gears.  I have it on my Sam, works great.  I could blather on about it, but if you want to know specifics, IE what you'd have to change, let me know, I'm happy to help.

-James 'Turkey Vulture gearing' Johnson

[JP]

That's not a bad idea.  If i went to a triple i'd need a new derailer too correct?  What about just putting new rings on my existing crank?  I don't mind coasting a bit downhill.  

Also thinking about cannibalizing the sam to put on the new homer - i do want to have a longer bike at some point.

My family just wants me to keep both a new bike and the sam and i do have a 16 year old son who will physically grow into the 60cm someday perhaps.

 Thanks much!

On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 9:14:13 AM UTC-7, Dorothy C wrote:

[JP]

Here you are.  It's a 60cm with sidepull silver brakes.  I normally have the seat higher.

It's in great shape with the exception the front rims are very grindy sounds when i break and i don't know if that's normal.  I put it picture to inquiry as to you folks as to if they rims are damaged or if noise from past debris is a concern at all.

[Analog Cycles]

Rims need polishing and cleaning, which is pretty easy with a Hozan rim cleaner or fine sand paper.  Brake pads in all likelihood need filed down or replaced, they probably have crud stuck in them.

-james

Analog Cycles  

www.analogcycles.com

instagram.com/analogcycles

analog...@gmail.com

301-456-5471

181 Hillside Rd East Poultney VT 05764

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[Patrick Moore]

+3 for swapping rings or cogs instead of selling the Sam, unless you have other reasons to sell the Same.

You said that your father's triple was not pleasant. Why is that? A well set up triple works very well -- and I say that even though I forgo triples for wide range doubles, and forgo very low gears to get closer gaps in the middle. But you can easily get a lower-tan 1:1 ratio with a triple, and even on a double is you don't mind wide gaps.

Patrick Moore, who did a 17 mile windy ride in a wide-range 76" gear (fixed) in windy (gusts to 32 mph) ABQ, NM

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 11:08 AM JP <jay...@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't mind walking at all, it's not so so steep - but it is long - my dad's homer with a triple isn't a pleasant experience.  

On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 9:40:58 AM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[Erik Wright]

I’m gonna guess your existing crank is 110 BCD and likely won’t accommodate a smaller front ring, as I’m also assuming it comes with a 34 lil’ ring. That’s generally the smallest ring you can fit on a crank like that. A 30 tooth ring floated around here recently on another thread but for a cost of a new crank.

You wouldn’t necessarily need a new derailleur depending on how you set it up. I have a sugino triple that I set up as a wide/low double by removing the outer ring and replacing the middle ring with a 44 tooth chainring. I use an old suntour derailleur and didn’t need a triple-specific derailleur. One additional cost associated with this move is the need for single speed chainring bolts, but those run $10 or so.

Erik, Philly

[Erik Wright]

There’s a few good crank options that someone’s selling over on iBob right now:

https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/internet-bob/3xeT5WyIjVE

[Patrick Moore]

Even with a 34 t (or 36 t) inner ring you can get a 1:1 ratio with the right big cog:

https://www.ebay.com/i/322899062173?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=322899062173&targetid=884619362040&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9030489&poi=&campaignid=9338046851&mkgroupid=94993845019&rlsatarget=pla-884619362040&abcId=1139336&merchantid=101673960&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvLXo3pj96AIVCL7ACh2Ihw60EAkYAiABEgJtsfD_BwE

I'm pretty sure Miche sells them, but couldn't pull up one of theirs.

And innermost cogs get a heck of a lot bigger than 36 nowadays.

You might need a new rd to shift to a 36, but chances are you might not if you already have a long cage derailleur.

[JP]

Sorry I meant it was not UNpleasant.  It's great!

[Patrick Moore]

I saw your correction after I'd sent my reply. At any rate, your options are all good:

1. Get a triple, and possibly a new rear derailleur.

2. Keep your double, but get a big enough rear cog (and possibly a longer cage rear derailleur).

3. Assiduously internalize the Velominati rule #5. (Gloss on this scripture: get used to climbing in a higher gear. I started out riding fixed with a 63" gear, since I used a 60" gear for our steeper hills here in ABQ, NM, but it was so horribly low for flats, not to mention downhills, that I quickly moved up to 65", 67-8", and 70" for my errand bike, 75-6 for my gofast, and found that hills flattened accordingly. Really, it took me longer to accommodate our strong winds.)

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:33 PM JP <jay...@gmail.com> wrote:

Sorry i meant to see it was not unpleasant.  It is pleasant!

On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 4:24:33 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:

+3 for swapping rings or cogs instead of selling the Sam, unless you have other reasons to sell the Same.

You said that your father's triple was not pleasant. Why is that? A well set up triple works very well -- and I say that even though I forgo triples for wide range doubles, and forgo very low gears to get closer gaps in the middle. But you can easily get a lower-tan 1:1 ratio with a triple, and even on a double is you don't mind wide gaps.

Patrick Moore, who did a 17 mile windy ride in a wide-range 76" gear (fixed) in windy (gusts to 32 mph) ABQ, NM

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 11:08 AM JP <jay...@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't mind walking at all, it's not so so steep - but it is long - my dad's homer with a triple isn't a pleasant experience.  

On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 9:40:58 AM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:

Welcome, JP!

I second Dorthy's question, and add one:

- walk the hill? The lowest common gear (LCG every bike has. Walking is never a failure, always an option, and sometimes the best option. Grin.

With abandon,

Patrick, who rides fixed gear 70" most milage, 55" gear for single track on Pikes Peak, which includes LCG now and again.

On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 8:56:29 AM UTC-6, JP wrote:

Hello I’m JP.  I was at The Concord Willows REI 10 years ago and a person had a shirt that said “Rivendell lugged bikes” on it or something.   I did an internet search when I got home and was converted by the wisdom immediately.  Took a lunch trip over to the shop and met Kevin, eventually created a “bike tree” of about 9 bikes with my own evangelizing.  With my Sam being #2 after getting my dad to buy a homer.  

Fast forward to today and I’ve since changed jobs houses and had more kids.  

Where I’ve moved has a relatively steep hill that had put me off riding for a while.  My Sam has a double crank with road bike oriented size rings that was great until I moved.
But with the help of a car rack and covid 19 I’ve stared again.

I’m bummed I missed the 2018 Rivendell stress as I would have helped a bit.  I was having some work stress then too and missed it.

Anyway thinking of selling my Sam and Will@rbw said to look on here.  

Really excited to be riding again in any case!

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[JP]

Thanks all again for the good info. I’m really relieved my wheels aren’t ruined as well.

The only other angle is in assuming I needed more dramatic changes I got up to date on the really long bike developments of 2018, which is appealing to me as my dads old homer as a 63 always was more comfortable, and it sounds like the long wheelbase has progressed even more. I’ll do some research.

Best!

[Bill Schairer]

I’m thinking your existing crank may very well have 74 bcd tapped drillings on the inside that, with 5 more chainring bolts and spacers, will allow you to mount a third, inner ring down to 24 teeth. If so, no new crank needed to convert to a triple.

Bill S

[Deacon Patrick]

Aye, I thought the same thing Bill. May Require a wider BB to clear the chain stays if they went as narrow as possible with the current build.

With abandon,

Patrick