700 x 45-50 options

[Trenker]

What is available in tires 700 x 45-50 for commuting and touring? For an Atlantis on synergy rims. I have used Marathon Supremes in 700 x 40. They are really nice tires and I have toured with them. Most of the paved and unpaved roads in my area are fine with these, but some newly laid gravel can need a wider tire.

I have Compass 700x44 and they are very light tires. For touring they’d be all right because even if I get a flat every couple of days it doesn’t matter, since I stop to rest anyway. But they are hardly bigger than the Compass 700x38, they measure about 40-42 mm on my rims. For combined touring and commuting I want something a bit sturdier than the Compass and a bit lighter construction than the Marathon Supreme, at least 45 mm wide.  I want to make good use of the clearance on the Atlantis.

[Reed Kennedy]

I quite like the Schwalbe Big One:
http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/mtb-reviews/schwalbe-big-one-2016

Slightly wider than you asked for at 57mm (measured, from the link) but still nice and light and supple.

Fits my Hunq. I think it'll work on an Atlantis? I use the Compass 38mm for paved touring and these for more interesting stuff.


Reed

On Sat, Mar 25, 2017 at 6:58 AM Trenker <dctr...@gmail.com> wrote:

What is available in tires 700 x 45-50 for commuting and touring? For an Atlantis on synergy rims. I have used Marathon Supremes in 700 x 40. They are really nice tires and I have toured with them. Most of the paved and unpaved roads in my area are fine with these, but some newly laid gravel can need a wider tire.

I have Compass 700x44 and they are very light tires. For touring they’d be all right because even if I get a flat every couple of days it doesn’t matter, since I stop to rest anyway. But they are hardly bigger than the Compass 700x38, they measure about 40-42 mm on my rims. For combined touring and commuting I want something a bit sturdier than the Compass and a bit lighter construction than the Marathon Supreme, at least 45 mm wide.  I want to make good use of the clearance on the Atlantis.

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[Chris Lampe 2]

You might consider the Maxxis Torch 29 tire.  It's relatively new in the 29'er/700c size so not a lot of reviews out there but it's been used in the BMX world for a while.  It's on my short list for my next set of tires.  

Maxxis Torch 29

[Trenker]

Thanks, both of those look interesting.

 I could use a Marathon Supreme 50 as well. It would be fine, however ideally I prefer some tread, I have slid out and crashed on the slick Marathon Supreme on wet pavement; I learned not to exceed those limits but it's nice to have a margin of safety.

Incidentally I have to wonder about some kind of conflicted feelings of the Maxxis guy who comes up with names for their tires. “Torch” conveys to me something combustible that burns up fast. Another one of my favourite strange Maxxis names is “Detonator:” not sure that is the image I want to be rolling along on.   :-)

[Stuart Lovinggood]

Already ordered some Torches for my new Appaloosa. Can report back next week with some photos and impressions.

[Steven Sweedler]

How about the Schwalbe Thunderbert  700 x 2.1. A friend is running those on his Atlantis and felt a big difference over the 700 x 50 Marathon Mondials that he replaced. Steve

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Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire

[Scott Blouke]

I just picked up a set of Schwalbe almotions in 50-584 but they make a 50-622 and a 55-622 and this one might be exactly the size you are looking for if they are a bit undersized.

They are currently only measuring out to 43mm wide on synergies but they are taller then the 42-584 Marathons they replaced.

I got them to mount tubeless on a set of cliffhangers so we will see once all those parts come in.

They seem tough but still roll well.  

[Chris Lampe 2]

I look forward to hearing your impressions.

[Trenker]

"How about the Schwalbe Thunderbert  700 x 2.1. A friend is running those on his Atlantis and felt a big difference over the 700 x 50 Marathon Mondials that he replaced. Steve"

These sound good. I like Schwalbe tires, I've never had one that wasn't well-made. How are they for riding a whole day on 70 % pavement/ 30 % gravel? I used to have legs like tree trunks but now I want something that makes life a bit easier.

David

[Conway Bennett]

If interested, I have a lightly used set of marathons in 700x50 and brand new Smart Sam 700x45s I want to get rid of that I'll sell at a fair price.

[dougP]

A while back, one of the guys at Rivendell said you'd drive yourself nuts trying to figure out Schwalbe's tire selection, and recommended the Smart Sam for mixed surface touring.  On this forum, much has been written about the Thunder Burts & they seem well liked.  I have Sams on a bike & they're surprisingly quiet for such an aggressive looking tire.  The roll well enough on pavement (not Marathon Supreme well) and get good grip in the dirt. 

dougP

[drew]

i went through this quest a few weeks back, trying something different from 700x50 marathon supremes  i wanted to try thunder burts, but in the time it took me to try to figure out the various versions, i stumbled on wtb nano's for 12$ each. i just finished a little 2 day trip on them and they were awesome, especially for the price. this trip was 90% dirt though, and the tires are bigger than youre looking for. i probably wouldnt use them if i was primarily on roads.  i have smart sams on another bike. they are nice, but even less road oriented than the wtb's.  i still really like the big marathons, and will probably move back to them in a few months. thunder burts are also still on the list to try.... and soma cazaderos... and those maxxis ones too...

[Mark in Beacon]

The Thunder Burts will not be a hindrance on the pavement. I consistently out-roll guys on 700 x 28 Compass Extra Lights with my 26 x 2.1 Thunder Burts. Real quiet, too. Excellent tire. Here they are for $32 each in 700:   http://tinyurl.com/ma5m4xg

[Kieran J]

The Thunder Burt is an excellent tire, and rolls well on pavement - especially the LiteStar variant.

If you considering that tire, you might also look at the Clement X'plor MSO in 700x50. I've been riding the 40mm version pretty much exclusively throughout this weirdly snowless winter, and they have done very well. Fast, quiet and comfy.

KJ

Toronto, Canada

[Tony McG]

I have heard rumors of a Soma Cazadero in 700x50. The Terrene Honali 700x50 was announced last week, and you couldn't go wrong with the Clemet MSO 700x50 if they roll as well as the 40s.

[Chris Lampe 2]

Interesting.  I didn't know the MSO came in a 50mm size and Clement doesn't even list it on their website.  I see that Black Mountain Cycles has one left in stock.  Is it brand new or something that is being discontinued?

[Tony McG]

I found them here, but not on their website.

https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=79786&category=4190

[Kieran J]

I believe it is a fairly recent addition. If I could choose one all-purpose tire that does everything reasonably well, the MSO might be it.

KJ

[John G.]

I'm running a set of Snoqualmie Pass tires on my Atlantis. When I first got them mounted, I was highly disappointed by their width--couldn't have been more than 40mm. They were awful purty and supple, so I left 'em on. 400 miles later, and they are definitely wider--probably around 43-44cm.

Great tires. I ride a lot in the metro NYC area, and have no flats yet (touch wood).

[RichS]

Tire size/rim width compatibility have been discussed here before but I'm curious: How comfortable are you running a 45-50 tire on your Synergy rims? Jan Heine has stated that rim width isn't as critical with supple tires. Okay, I get this. But I would be reluctant to use a 45-50 size tire with stiffer sidewalls on Synergy rims.

Good luck in your search!

Regards,
Richard

[Patrick Moore]

I used to run 60 mm Big Apples on 24 mm outside width rims -- stock on my Monocog 29er, and back in the day all the cool cats ran Farmer Johns and such on 13 mm inside/19 outside rims. I'd not worry about a 50 mm tire on a typical 23 mm outside rim, though of course wider would be better. 

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[Stuart Lovinggood]

Also worth noting that there are now two Smart Sam tire treads. The older is great, I've had it on two bikes, and it's the one Riv recommends. The new one is modern looking and looks a lot like the Maxxis Crossmark II. I haven't seen it in person but I don't think the centerline is continuous anymore.

[Orc]

Huh.   They're selling the 650b Ones for $30, too, which are about as close to the opposite of the Tburts as you can get from the same manufacturer.

-david parsons

[William R.]

I have been riding the Schwalbe Almotions (50-622) on my Appaloosa for a couple of days. They came folded. Very stiff sidewalls. I mounted them on Atlas rims on Friday night, spun them in the stand, very lumpy. I let the air out a couple of times and tried to get them seated better. Rode them on the ride with Mark in Beacon on Saturday and they were just really lumpy/bumpy, but it seemed like they were getting smoother as time and the miles went by. Dropped the pressure to 50 rear/45 front before heading out on Sunday. They were better. I want to like them. I am going to give them a good chance and see if they round perfectly out. If not, back on will go the T-Burts, they will go back on at some point anyway, they are so good! I put the Snoqualmie's that I had on the Cross Check build that I am doing for my son. I might get another pair for my go fast summer tires. There seems to be a gap there in 622 fast, light tread tires from 44 (41 really in the Snoqs) to about 60. I wish Schwalbe would fill up their Kojak line with 45, 50, 55+ sizes and size down their Big Ones through the same range. And as long as I am wishing, I wish Jan would come out with some 48, 54 and 60's in 700/622 fast tires. Those Torches look like they would be good on the Appaloosa too. I will look forward to your report on them Stuart.

-Bill in Westchester, NY

My 58cm Appaloosa with the Almotions (50-622) and fenders:

[Scott Blouke]

I am still undecided on the Almotions.  The reflective stripe isn't printed round and in the stand they look out of round but feel nice riding around.  They do not feel nice like the Bicycle Rolling Resistance review lead me to hope for.

I think that the tested tire and the TLE version are quite different.  I will give them a fair shot setup tubeless. 

I was excited to build up my Cliffhangers today but my double checking on my spoke calculations wasn't enough and I transposed some numbers so I would up with a bit too long drive side spokes.  I tried lacing it twice thinking it was me and not the spokes...  That was a bummer to a mediocre day.  So correct spokes are ordered hopefully they are here over the weekend I would like to get the Bombadil I recently got off the list up and ready to ride.

[Chris Lampe 2]

I've had the lumpy/bumpy issue with three of the four sets of Schwalbe tires I've owned.  I really, really like the Big Apples but I'm reluctant to buy new ones because I don't want a lumpy tire and I don't want the hassle of having to return a lumpy tire.  

[Patrick Moore]

I wonder if quality has declined? I've owned 3 pairs of BAs, the first dating back to their initial appearance in the early 2000s (when they cost $80 or more retail!). This was a 26 X 60 mm pair. The next pair, circa 2010, was a 700C X 60 pair; and the last, a couple of years later, was a pair of the 700C X 60 folding Liteskin model, with thinner sidewalls. All were perfectly round on a variety of rims, and all rode very, very smoothly.

I've also owned numerous pairs of Kojaks; ditto. And F Freds, of course, again, ditto.

Have others found poor quality in Schwalbe tires? I hope it's not a trend.

[William R.]

These Almotions are the first Schwalbe tires that I have bought that were anything other than perfectly round. I have had Kojaks, Big Bens and Thunder Burts. All were/are great. Third ride on these this morning and they seem to be getting better little by little. Or am I getting used to it? I will keep riding them and see. It certainly doesn't seem as painfully obvious as it was when I first rolled on them.

And yes Scott, the reflective stripe on these is all over the place, that will never smooth out. More eye catching for drivers though! So a plus?

-Bill "not giving up on Schwalbe" in Westchester, NY

[sameness]

I've had the lump-bumpy-reflective-stripe issue on plain ol' wire bead Marathons in 32/559, and the bumps never rode out. So much soapy water massaging I'd get dishpan hands. On the bright side, they never got a flat. No such problems with Kojaks.

Jeff Hagedorn
Los Angeles, CA USA

[Roy Drinkwater]

William, did you set up the Almotions tubed or tubeless?

Roy Drinkwater
Lititz, PA

[William R.]

Roy: Tubed. Nice extra light SV19 tubes.

Bill "never gone tubeless" in Westchester, NY

[Stuart Lovinggood]

I have gone on a few rides now with Maxxis Torch tires mounted on my Appaloosa. I'm using the stock rims (25mm outer IIRC). Tires are rated at 700 x 53 and measure out around 51.5 after breaking in. So far, I like them more than my Big Bens but maybe not as much as Compass tires. The treaded area is quite thick compared to the sidewalls and has a hard edge, which I was not expecting and is also hard to photograph. Folded up it appeared as though there would be a significant effect on cornering but inflated the tire has a nice tread coverage. I'm working them down slowly, they're now at 30/35psi and feel like they could go much lower, but I'm still experimenting. The tread is grippy even off road and held up on a short steep dirt climb I've washed out on before. 

My friend test rode the Appaloosa around the parking lot of the local brewery and got a piece of glass crammed between the treads. That was less than fun. Although it probably would have survived only if it were one of the extreme Schwalbe-type flat protection systems. Had a patch kit but the patch job seems to be slowly leaking air – is there anything more infuriating about bicycles than flat tires?

Overall I am happy with this tire as a slick for commuting and riding gravel/fire roads and will probably keep it on unless I feel like picking up a pair of Smart Sams. These are my favorite semislick 50+ tire I've tried. That said, they were about $100 for the pair at my LBS and if Compass had an offering in this size, I'd pony up the extra dough. The Snoqualmie Pass felt plusher at a similar psi ratio. 

[Stuart Lovinggood]

Forgot a rear clearance shot (it's pretty close) and a better shot of the flat section of the tread. 

[Chris Lampe 2]

I just put a pair of Torch's on my Karate Monkey this week and I'm similarly impressed with them.  I agree with your description of the tread.  My Big Apples are a smooth, continuous transition from sidewall to tread but the Torch has a very defined tread section with a well defined border between tread and sidewall.  I actually prefer this because it gives the bike a more "planted" feel.  If Compass ever comes out with a similar width 700c tire, it will be hard not to purchase a set. 

Thanks for posting your Appaloosa.  Not only is it a beautiful bike but I've been sitting here imagining a Hunqapillar with Bullmoose bar and Torch tires.  Now I know how good it would actually look!  

On Thursday, April 13, 2017 at 1:20:47 PM UTC-5, Stuart Lovinggood wrote:

[Bill Lindsay]

Stuart 

Yours is one GREAT looking Appaloosa.  Without fenders and with the bullmoose bars it looks super clean, and almost minimalist.  I love the Silver, too.  APPROVE

BL

[William R.]

Spot on Stuart. Great photos too, really nice Joe! Read about the Torches here and checked out Maxxis' specs. They sounded so good I ordered a pair from Germany. While I waited for them to arrive, I took the Almotions off (don't think I can ever like them) and replaced them with my Lite Skin Thunder Burts. The Thunder Burts are so good. The only place I feel they are lacking a little is on pavement. And most of my rides involve at least 50% pavement. That has kept my eyes open for a better all rounder. Enter the Torches. Comparing them side by side before mounting the casings seem almost identical. And right away I noticed abrupt start and uniform thickness of the tread from edge to edge. I guess that is where the extra 200 grams per tire is. Still, these are a good 200 grams per tire less than the Almotions too. I like the Torches a lot. I think the only area they are lacking a. It against the T-Burts is weight. I have been riding them daily for a week now. They are fast and corner better than any tire in this size range that I have tried. I guess they perform like a good bmx tire should. I plan to keep these on as my favorite all round tire. If I do an all or mostly dirt ride I will put the Thunder Burts on. Though I am guessing the Torches will perform well in the dirt too.

Bill in Westchester, NY

[Ian Strader]

Seems like Compass 700x44 would be about as big as you could get if you wanted fenders on the Appaloosa. Sweet bike, btw

[Stuart Lovinggood]

Au contrare, Riv has these B65 fenders (albeit not as long as some other models), built up on an Appaloosa in the product photo: 

https://www.rivbike.com/collections/fenders/products/sks-esge-commuter-ii-silver-fenders-b65-700c-29er

Riv's description lists these as up to 55mm tires, which means they would likely work with the Torches.

[Chris Lampe 2]

Here is another interesting tire: Terrene Honali in 40mm and 50mm widths