Pavement/dirt; fat/skinny; hard/soft: what are your likes?

[PATRICK MOORE]

I just took a nice 22 mile out and back, 3/4 dirt, along our Rio
Grande bosque trails and fire roads: wonderful ride. I find that I am
considerably less tempted to do the time trial schtick on dirt than I
am on pavement, making for a more pleasant ride and -- mirabile dictu!
-- fast, comfortable "mini time trials" on the way back, on dirt,
thanks to having given myself ample time to warm up.

But enough about me. After riding the (insert name of non-Rivendell,
but IMO very Rivendellish, tigg'd, Salsa model here -- steel! steel!
It's steel!!) with the skinny Sun Rhyno wheelset with 40 mm Ritchey
Speed Maxes for a couple of months, I finally got around to going to
the fabric store and buying a roll of 1 1/2' ribbon wherewith to
provide the SnoCat SLs with rim strips (I was tempted to buy some very
pretty brocade type ribbon but saved my $$ and bought basic black) so
I could re-install the Big Apples. Today's ride was on the BA wheelset
at about 12/18 psi, and I was once again surprised and pleased at how
well the 60 mm BAs roll; on pavement -- tho' they are faster at a few
psi more: say 20/25 -- but especially on firm dirt and gravel; I swear
up and down that they roll ***as well*** on the sub 1" sand, packed
clay, woodcut debris and light gravel of the route I took as they do
(at 12/18) on smooth pavement. (As I was cruising at 18 mph on the
gravel verge of the bike path, a youngster passed me (on pavement) and
said, "Nice beast!") Me, I'd rather push a soft BA on pavement than
push a hard, skinny, sub 50 mm tire on dirt.

So, what's y'all's preference for combination on/off road riding? Fat
and soft on pavement, or skinny, hard 42s on dirt?

Patrick "God willing, will pick up my 35 mm Kojaks for the Rhyno Lite
wheelset -- strictly pavement! -- tomorrow" Moore

--
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact
Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html

[Montclair BobbyB]

Patrick:

Fat n soft... You can always pump em up and they roll like
fogettaboutit...

Favorites: Still love the 50mm Big Apples, 60mm Fat Franks or BAs,
and my new fave: 50mm Kojaks...

I also have discovered (this may sound crazy) the red Grand Tycoon 26
x 2.125 tires roll exceptionally well, and the rubber is so soft and
pliable, these rank up there with the Schwalbes at half the price.

Peace,
BB

[Patrick in VT]

On Feb 1, 5:34 pm, PATRICK MOORE <bertin...@gmail.com> wrote:

> So, what's y'all's preference for combination on/off road riding? Fat
> and soft on pavement, or skinny, hard 42s on dirt?

There are so many varietals of "dirt" - Vermont has quite a few.
Pennsylvania has its own brand. And from what I've seen, the Cali
kids have some really unique stuff too. But for combination on/off
roading, rough-stuff riding in my neck of the woods, the 650b Hetre is
just ridiculously adept and feels anything but skinny and hard. It is
a joy to ride just about anywhere.

[Montclair BobbyB]

We need a grass-roots movement to push for Hetres to be made in other
sizes... 26 and 700 !!!!

[robert zeidler]

+1

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[Allingham II, Thomas J]

I have a set of the relatively new Compass Cycles 26 inch tires, which I briefly mounted on an early '80s Mongoose ATB out of curiosity (it normally rides on 60mm Fat Franks).  The Compass tires ride like a dream, very cushy but very quick feeling.  Sort of, uh, "Hetre-like".

---

From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of robert zeidler
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 10:46 AM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] Pavement/dirt; fat/skinny; hard/soft: what are your likes?

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[Patrick in VT]

On Feb 3, 10:46 am, robert zeidler <zeidler.rob...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1

anybody try the Compass 26x1.75? looks like it might be comparable,
despite the different tread.

Bobby's "Grand Tycoon" sounds about right too ... I'd buy that on name
alone. but i'm wary of buying 26" tires because 650b is poised to
take the MTB world by storm and turn 26ers into dinosaurs, right? how
much stock should we put into that one?!

[Steven Frederick]

No way! If you guys want Hetres you have to come over to the 650b side!

B-)

Steve

[Patrick in VT]

On Feb 3, 11:34 am, "Allingham II, Thomas J"

<Thomas.Alling...@skadden.com> wrote:
> I have a set of the relatively new Compass Cycles 26 inch tires, which I briefly mounted on an early '80s Mongoose ATB out of curiosity (it normally rides on 60mm Fat Franks).  The Compass tires ride like a dream, very >cushy but very quick feeling.  Sort of, uh, "Hetre-like".

oh. as Emperor Joseph II was fond of saying, "well, there it is."

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

No doubt the MTB bike and parts mfrs are going to push 650B this year...akin to the road bike manufacturers jumping on the 10+ speed cassettes and other changes over the years. It's important to the bike business model to have something new to sell on a continuous basis. It would be a simple thing to wave one's hand and dismiss these "innovations" as so much hype, but here and there you'll find some genuine improvements, applicable to all but the most retro-grouchy and antiquarian types.

One odd thing: even with 650B being barely a niche item (at the moment), it has displaced 26"/559 in many minds because of small but influential players like GP and JH and some of us who discuss it on the Internet. Very often, someone comes in the shop and observes a bike with 559 wheels and asks me if it's 650B. To be sure, they may not comprehend that 26" and 650B are different. But 650B dominates 26" in terms of publicity in certain circles. At the moment, I'm more comfortable with 26", but that could change in 10 years.

[Patrick in VT]

On Feb 3, 3:04 pm, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery <thill....@gmail.com>
wrote:
> It would be a simple thing to wave one's hand and dismiss these "innovations" as so much hype . ...

I don't mean to be dismissive. Anybody who has developed preferences,
as many on this list have, appreciates options - and I think 650b is a
great option for both road and MTB. I'm just skeptical that it will
replace 26ers, or 29ers for that matter, as some speculate. wasn't/
isn't the 29er supposed to make the 26er obsolete? in theory, that
means that the 650ber can't replace the 26er. there can't be planned
obsolescence without a plan! there are rules, Donny!!

[Smitty-A-Go-Go]

Sort of a side track from the OP but regarding wheel size trends... My wife has a Kona brand commuter type bike. She's 5'3". The frame's a 50cm or so (I forget exactly and it's not available to measure at the moment). It has 700c wheels. The top of the back wheel is level with the bottom of the seat. It has fenders and a rear rack. The rack is so far above the braze-ons that it made more sense to zip-tie it to the seat rails. It's a perfect example of why wheel size as a trend is foolish. The wheels are way to big for the bike... poor design. The wife's Betty Foy is 650b and is much more proportionally appropriate. 

[William]

Jan will tell you 700x32 Grand Bois Cypres is the functional match for the 650x42 Hetre.  You can't get it in red, though.  There's a pretty good chance my next bike will be built around the 700x32 Cypres.  

[Steve Palincsar]

I can't believe that for a minute. It's not borne out by anything he's
written on the subject (if the Cypress 700x32 he'd been using before the
Hetre was the "functional match," why switch to the wider tire?).

What's more, it's not borne out by my own experience: I own two black
randonneurs, one a Velo Orange built by Johnny Coast (700x30 Cypres) and
the other by Mitch Pryor (Hetres) and I have personal experience with
both. Yes, they're both tires, and they're both round, and each in
their own way is nice. But equivalents? That's laughable.

[Peter Pesce]

+1 Steve. I think that BQ's article on optimum wheel and tire sizes may have concluded that the Cypres (and the folding 35mm Kojak too, BTW) was about the right weight for acceptable handling on 700c wheels, but everything Jan has written on the subject would seem to indicate the wider, lower pressure tire is better for almost every situation.

Pete in CT

[Carla Waugh]

Sounds like a fun ride and I wish around here we had something like that to ride on.

Artist/Art Educator/Bicyclist

[Bruce Herbitter]

As GP demonstrated with the blue tun of Rams, a smaller wheel allows a sensible geometry tor shorter riders. I have the 52 cm with 559 mm wheels and love it. Even a slighter bigger frame works on a smaller wheel.

Sent from my Kindle Fire

---

From: Smitty-A-Go-Go <54c...@gmail.com>
Sent: Fri Feb 03 16:08:09 CST 2012
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: Pavement/dirt; fat/skinny; hard/soft: what are your likes?

Sort of a side track from the OP but regarding wheel size trends... My wife has a Kona brand commuter type bike. She's 5'3". The frame's a 50cm or so (I forget exactly and it's not available to measure at the moment). It has 700c wheels. The top of the back wheel is level with the bottom of the seat. It has fenders and a rear rack. The rack is so far above the braze-ons that it made more sense to zip-tie it to the seat rails. It's a perfect example of why wheel size as a trend is foolish. The wheels are way to big for the bike... poor design. The wife's Betty Foy is 650b and is much more proportionally appropriate. 

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