Another >10year old Rivendell

[Bill Lindsay]

I've admittedly got a huge stable of bikes.  It has "swole" to fully 16 bikes at the moment.  I'm really proud of the fact that all of them are dialed and that I ride them all.  As a result, even though I put down a decent amount of mileage, none of my bikes has been ridden an epic amount.  

The bike I've owned the longest and ridden the most is my 56cm Rivendell Sam Hillborne.  I bought it initially in December of 2009.  My work situation recently changed and has me travelling to Wayne County Michigan once a month, for at least a week at a time.  As an investment in my own quality of life away from home, I shipped out my Hillborne, which now lives in my office.  At first it seemed like exile, but now I realize it's a position of honor.  Here on the west edge of the eastern time zone, it stays light until 9PM or later, so there's a ton of time to get riding in, and when the choices are watching TV in a hotel room or going on a ride, it's been quite easy to put quite a few miles in. When you have only one bike, the choice is "ride or don't ride".  There's no fretting over wear-leveling the whole stable.  Over this past weekend I made a longer trek out into Washtenaw County to visit Ann Arbor.  It's shocking how quickly the miles peel away when there are no hills to speak of.  

My Sam Hillborne is freaking perfect, and there is no question in my mind that if I had to downsize from 16 bikes to 1, the Hillborne would be the one I'd keep.  Here's a few shots of my endeavors to increase my footprint in Wayne County.  

https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/51184956010

https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/51183817561

https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/51183880066

https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/51183881196

https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/51184958840

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA (but sometimes Livonia, MI)

[Jason Fuller]

Very nice Bill, cheers for the story and wow at 16 bikes - it is heartening to read that even with that collection it's the Hillborne that would outlast them all - I feel the same about mine, though I've only had it two years!  Any idea as to what its mileage would be?  It does sound like the perfect situation, having it at the office - it's kind of like you do just have one bike when you're there, and supports your claim that it would be The One.  

I wonder how many bikes I'd have if space wasn't such a restriction for me... 

[Kushan]

Hi Bill - Nice Sam.. That Harlequene braiding on the bar drops is so unique. 

[Ray Evans]

Bill, the last bike I rode in Michigan was my yellow Schwinn Varsity, in about 1973. Nice to see those beautiful Sam pics at my alma mater! Go Blue!

Ray (now in Santa Barbara, but headed bikeless to Detroit tomorrow to visit my 94 yr-old dad)

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[Bill Lindsay]

Jason asked about the mileage on my Hillborne

I've only been logging mileage on Strava since 2014, and only got really obsessive about logging every single ride since 2017.  I have a total of ~19,000 miles on Strava, spread over a total of 22 bikes.  The Hillborne has the most documented Strava mileage at 1760.  I've got 10 different bikes over 1000 miles on Strava.  

Pre-Strava, before I was logging miles at all, perhaps I rode the Hillborne another 1500 miles when it was part of a smaller stable.  So maybe 3000 miles total on this bike.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 11:08:13 AM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:

[Jason Fuller]

Bill - interesting to know the numbers, thanks!  I also haven't been keeping close track until the past few years, but started before I got a Riv so I know I've got good numbers on those. My Hillborne just clicked over 4000 km on my last ride on it, which might be my highest mileage on one bike to date (had a Soma that might beat it if I had kept track), and I'm just a few km's away from 2000 on the Bombadil now--which is interesting, as I've only been riding it since December, and I had a Clem H for a full year that I only racked 1100 km on! 

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[Patrick Moore]

I owned a first edition Sam for a year or so and, if it had accepted fatter tires I might still have it; it was, or would have been, a very nice all rounder; the early ones were limited to -- Bill may and will correct me -- about 38 mm wide, IIRC, and there weren't (IIRC) any or many nice rolling 38s on the market circa 2010-2011; I used Jack Brown Greens. I found the tt too long, but in retrospect, d'oh!, I could have -- you know -- bought a shorter stem (bar height is not for me a variable).

But I sort of kind of agree that if someone held a gun to my head and said, "One bike. Choose." I'd be very tempted to pick either the Matthews 1:1 or the Matthews 2:1 (2X10 29er road bike for dirt and 1X3/1X1 26er road bike for road) with 61 and 41 mm tires respectively. OTOH, I keep coming back to home base: the 1999 Joe Starck stripped down fixed gear, which is among many very pleasant bikes still the most pleasant, even if it gets the fewest miles.

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[Bill Lindsay]

Patrick Moore said some things about his former Sam Hillborne

" I owned a first edition Sam for a year or so and, if it had accepted fatter tires I might still have it; it was, or would have been, a very nice all rounder; the early ones were limited to -- Bill may and will correct me -- about 38 mm wide, IIRC, and there weren't (IIRC) any or many nice rolling 38s on the market circa 2010-2011; I used Jack Brown Greens. I found the tt too long, but in retrospect, d'oh!, I could have -- you know -- bought a shorter stem (bar height is not for me a variable)."

I run mine with 700x38 almost all the time.  Steilacoom or Gravel Kings when I want knobbies, Barlow Pass slicks or Gravel King slicks when I don't.  It fits full metal fenders with 38s.  I've run up to 45s without fenders.  I think you decided the tt was too long because you ran the saddle too far back on your Sam, because you didn't correct for seat tube angle.  With the saddle mid rail, you would have had the KOPS you want, and the top tube length would have been correct.  That frame had a 59cm top tube.  Correcting for seat tube angle you would have run the saddle 2cm forward from normal, and voila, it would fit like a 57cm top tube.  That would have improved the front end handling for you as well.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Patrick Moore]

The saddle was in the right place, since saddle position (height, fore/aft) is always my starting point for fit, but mine (floor model) came with 10 cm stem and I was trying out Grant's suggestion that instead of shortening the stem, raise the bar. But I didn't think it through: even raised as high as I cared to do (level with saddle, possibly 1/2" higher), the stem was about 1 cm too long; and the bar was a 46 cm Noodle (IIRC) which I later (on another bike) decided was about 4 cm too wide for my comfort. Had I thought it through, once I got the saddle in place, I'd have considered where I wanted the bar (reach and height) and how wide a bar I wanted (42 max at hoods) and selected the stem accordingly. I guess that my standard 8 cm stem and a narrower bar would have fixed much of the problem.

The handling, or at least the "feel" of how it handled, was doubtless harmed by a bar too high for my taste and habits -- not enough weight on the front wheel; but still, I think the Sam had more flop than I care for, even with a wide bar; at least, it had more flop under heavy rear loads, which are my practice. But perhaps with the bar properly placed this would have been less of a problem.

In any event, the Sam is one of the sold-on Rivs that I can imagine having kept; probably more keepable, for my uses and tastes, than the Ram for its versatility -- had it accepted 50+ mm tires. I liked and still like the idea of a Sam.* Around here, anything under 50 (and 50 is marginal) is a road and not an off road tire (well, for me, at least; I follow others riding thru bosque sand pits cursing and swerving on sub-50 mm tires), but a Sam with 55 mm RH tires would indeed be worth examining closely.

* Ideal Sam, for firm dirt and pavement -- a sort of 700C all rounder: much lighter tubing, clearance for those 55 cm RH tires, geometry allows a setup like my road bikes -- like the Ram, in fact, as far as 55 mm tires allow.

[Patrick Moore]

Like Matthews 1:1? Not quite; more road-like than even that "road bike for dirt", though that Matthews is pretty road-like in fit and handling for a bike suitable for 3" sand. Lower bar, quicker handling, perhaps even more bb drop; Possible? Desirable in real life instead of imagination? Dunno, would leave that to the builder. More pavement focused than the Matthews 1:1 but more dirt capable than Matthews 2:1 with 42 mm tires (26) max. 

On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 8:13 AM Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:

...

* Ideal Sam, for firm dirt and pavement -- a sort of 700C all rounder: much lighter tubing, clearance for those 55 cm RH tires, geometry allows a setup like my road bikes -- like the Ram, in fact, as far as 55 mm tires allow.

[Patrick Moore]

Sheesh: 42s with fenders (which on this bike are non-negotiable).

On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 8:20 AM Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:

... but more dirt capable than Matthews 2:1 with 42 mm tires (26) max. 

[Pam Bikes]

I love all the bikes getting ridden.  I think it's glorious to share them for all to see and appreciate.  I visited a friend today and was admiring his blue Rambouillet.  What a beautiful head badge.  I could stare at Rivs all day.  

[esoterica etc]

In his initial post to start this thread, Bill said, "My Sam Hillborne is freaking perfect, and there is no question in my mind that if I had to downsize from 16 bikes to 1, the Hillborne would be the one I'd keep."

I'm really rather surprised to hear you say that Bill, especially since you've got an Ebisu All-Purpose bike. Could you please expound on the reason(s) that, for you, makes your Hillborne better than the Ebisu?

On a tangential note, if you ever find yourself in a pickle and have to scale down to N, I call first dibs on the Ebisu! :)

~Mark
Raleigh, NC

[Bill Lindsay]

Mark asked about why my Hillborne is "better" than my Ebisu.  

You caught me.  The Ebisu is also pretty much perfect, and it's set up almost identical to the Hillborne.  Those two bikes absolutely replace one another functionally, and I always have them living at different locations for that reason.  Aesthetically, the Ebisu is 'old' or 'classic'.  In order to achieve the fit I want in contemporary Stack and Reach space, I need to ride a huge level top tube frameset that I can't barely stand over.  It's a classic French or English look, with a fist full of seatpost, but having a frame that I can barely stand over doesn't get me anything but the look of an old bike.  The Ebisu provokes comments from some cyclist-bros "that bike is too big for you".  I may have said that 25 years ago, but I also didn't know about stack and reach 25 years ago.  25 years ago I thought it was all about top tube length and seat tube length.  Aesthetically, I suppose you could say the same thing about lugs.  Lugs don't get you anything but a look that is classic.  The sloping top tube design of the Hillborne is definitely the way I would spec a custom.  So, that's the one functional tiebreaker.  The other from a hypothetical downsizing exercise, the Ebisu is worth a lot more in the minds of my potential buyer.  Even though they are equally awesome, I could get a lot more money for the Ebisu than I could get for the Hillborne.  The Ebisu is not a superior bike, but it is more coveted.  I'd sell the Ebisu for $5000 today to anybody who wants it :).  I'm at the stage in life where I'll never be in a pickle where the price of one bicycle would get me out of that pickle.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[John Hawrylak]

Bill

Glad your enjoying Michigan with the Sam.   The pictures were very nice.   

Not surprised about your conclusion the Sam would be the 1 bike you would keep, from your previous posts  I thought you also had a Northern-Lyon and with the low trial and thin wall tubing, I thought the N-L would be the one bike to keep.

There is a dairy farm a little north of Monroe, Calder Dairy Farm.  They have delicious ice cream if you ever ride or drive in that direction.

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

[Bill Lindsay]

John Hawrylak stated he thought my Norther Lyon would be the one bike I would keep over all others.  

My Norther Lyon is another perfect bike, but it's a perfect bike for a particular application, and that's being a rando bike.  I can easily knock out a brevet on the Hillborne.  Having a perfect rando bike is a great #1 bike for a person who only does randonneuring.  For me, the Norther Lyon is #6 on my ranked list of Strava miles.  

By saying the Hillborne is the one bike I'd keep, I did not mean to imply that the other 15 are bad and I want to get rid of them.  My stable is dialed.  All 16 bikes are perfect in their own way.  The number is really good.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA