Hillborne vs. Bombadil vs. Atlantis (vs. Surly LHT, but nevermind that...)

[broken_cynic]

If you were contemplating the purchase of either a Sam Hillborne, a
Bombadil or an Atlantis as an all-rounder which was to be used mainly
for commuting and the occasional weekend trail ride to start with,
then proceeding to s24o type outings, shorter and eventually longer
unsupported touring to include some off-road elements, which would you
lean toward and why? At 6'1 and just shy of 200lbs I'd need one of
the stouter frames if it is to carry myself and a load of gear over
rough ground. I know the "right" answer is to ride all three and go
with whichever feels best, but it will a few months at best before I
have that opportunity and the question is burning a hole in my mind
right now, so I'm enlisting your opinions as a sort of vicarious
contemplation.

[Dave Craig]

BC:

I've got no personal experience with the Hillborne. However, I own and
have toured long distances on both the Atlantis and the Bombadil, so I
can tell you about those.

Both bikes make pretty good all-rounders and I like both bikes a lot.
I've ridden each of the bikes on and off road with and without touring
loads. I've run the (64cm) Atlantis with a range of tires down to 28c
and stripped down for fast event rides as well as in full touring gear
with 40c tires. I recently rode the (60cm) Bombadil on a tour from
Seattle to LA with 50c Marathon Supremes and drop bars and I'm now
transforming it into a flat bar MTB with 2" off road tires. Both bikes
can fit 2" tires - something I think is necessary to take a 200 pound
rider and 40-50 pounds of gear over rough and uneven terrain (I'm 6'2"
and 205#). To some extent, the two bikes are interchangeable and both
bikes are excellent tourers.

So why did I buy both? First, I love riding the Atlantis in it's
current, stripped down formation. I think it's a great road bike for
big guys riding on poorly maintained or dirt roads like I do here in
AZ. When faced with the opportunity to do another long, self-supported
tour, I just couldn't bear to load it up again with racks, fenders and
heavy wheels. The Bombadil looked to me like a versatile bike that I
could use as an MTB as well as a touring machine. There's a lot of
great single track here in town and I'd just sold my MTB, so I was
looking for a replacement. I also suspected that the Bombadil, with
its double top tube, would be a bit stiffer and therefore more
suitable for my riding style and route choices during tours. It worked
as well as I'd thought it would and I'd give it the edge over the
Atlantis for meeting MY touring needs.

Which bike would I keep if I could only have one? For the majority of
my riding, the Atlantis is my favorite tool. I enjoy riding the
Atlantis on the road and it is tough enough to deal with my rides that
sometimes include dirt roads and less technical trails. I bet the
Atlantis would even function much better as an off-road tourer on easy
single track if I were to tow a BOB trailer instead of full racks and
panniers as I've done. If your actual, day-to-day riding sounds
similar to mine (commuting, fitness riding, occasional, long event
rides and country exploring) you'd probably prefer the Atlantis as
well.

Dave

[Ray Shine]

Atlantis. Stout, nimble, trail capable under loads, tour capable under loads, commute capable with ligyt gear and upright bars, etc.  It's the middle bike of the two, and can do it all.  I have one, have commuted on it, trailed with it in the desert, and toured fully loaded cross-country on it. Ray --- On Mon, 8/10/09, broken_cynic <broken...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Ray Shine]

I should have added that I have used the Atlantis fully loaded with front and rear panniers (I rode this way on the Western Express; me -170 pounds, gear -45) but I have also used it with just a BOB traler on shorter rides here in Northern Cal and Oregon.  As a side note, while on the Western Express and part of the Trans-Am, the loaded touring bike I saw more than any other was the Surly LHT.  As a contented owner of three Rivendells, I have to admit that the Surly is an awful lot of bike for the money… --- On Tue, 8/11/09, Ray Shine <r.s...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

[Garth]

Test rides can be somewhat helpful . . . but they are far from
conclusive as you don't really know how you like a frame until you own
it for a while. No different than cars, clothing etc. . . you're too
enamored with it at first to really notice what you don't like.

On a Bombadil, and I believe the Atlantis . . . your choice of
chainrings is more limited than on say a LHT, which is more suited for
the road. You're limited to a 34 or 36 middle ring, and you may be
able to get a 48 on a Bombadil, depending on the BB length. . . but a
46 appears to be what is was designed for. In a nutshell, don't expect
to use a road crank or half-step rings. I know nothing of the Sam
frame either .

The Bombadil and Atlantis can take the widest road 700c's and many
29er tires . . a Sam and LHT cannot. Some of the really big 700c
tires look coll and all , but they can weigh up to and over two pounds
per tire! This can make them feel a bit sluggish at times.

The Bombadil also has a longer TT that any of these frames. This may
or may not matter, it depends on your preferred position. I did not
get an Atlantis because of the shorter TT. With a shorter bike I would
not have been able to use an Albatross bar to my liking, as it would
be too easy to hit my knees. You may not want to use an Albatross bar
today . . .but you may in the future.

I noticed the Sam frame has only 2 water bottle mounts. You can always
add the bolt on type . . .but hey .....as these braze ons are
inexpensive to do . . I scratch my head why they were not included.


The truth is in the details of the frames though . . . . make a list
of the things you absolutely will not compromise over, and those you
will. Things you like . . things you don't.

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

For most of our purposes, these three bikes are interchangeable. If
using the fattest tires is a priority, the Hillborne isn't ideal, but
otherwise it's a great value at $1000. The Atlantis and Bombadil are
really nice, but of course they cost quite a bit more.

[Johnny Alien]

You actually can get the info you need right on Rivendell. For your
weight the Hilborne is pretty much out. Rivendell lists the the
weight limit on the SH as 240lbs combined for passenger and load.

That leaves the Bombadil and Atlantis both of which would be good
choices. The Atlantis is listed with a 300lb limited while the
Bombadil is listed as able to take more. If you were going to limit
yourself to mainly commuting and some light touring I would say the
Atlantis is the best choice however if you think you ever might do
heavy duty touring the Bombadil would have less limitations.

http://www.rivbike.com/assets/full/0000/0012/framecompJan.pdf

[Seth Vidal]

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 6:37 AM, Johnny Alien<johnn...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> You actually can get the info you need right on Rivendell.  For your
> weight the Hilborne is pretty much out.  Rivendell lists the the
> weight limit on the SH as 240lbs combined for passenger and load.
>
> That leaves the Bombadil and Atlantis both of which would be good
> choices.  The Atlantis is listed with a 300lb limited while the
> Bombadil is listed as able to take more.  If you were going to limit
> yourself to mainly commuting and some light touring I would say the
> Atlantis is the best choice however if you think you ever might do
> heavy duty touring the Bombadil would have less limitations.
>

I've often wondered about those weight limits. I bought an atlantis
and I'm very happy with it, but I'm curious how much room there is on
the weight limit on the AHH, for example.

I have a few other bikes and I can't imagine they are more robust or
well made than any of the rivendells, but I've never seen a weight
limit on them and I've never had any issue with them. I'm 6'1" and
weigh 225lbs as a point of reference.

-sv

[Bill Connell]

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Seth Vidal<skv...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've often wondered about those weight limits. I bought an atlantis
> and I'm very happy with it, but I'm curious how much room there is on
> the weight limit on the AHH, for example.
>
> I have a few other bikes and I can't imagine they are more robust or
> well made than any of the rivendells, but I've never seen a weight
> limit on them and I've never had any issue with them. I'm 6'1" and
> weigh 225lbs as a point of reference.

I think Rivendell publishes weight limits because they get a fair
number of requests about it from tourers and big riders. They have
generally carried much larger frames than are generally available, and
if you're 6'8" and looking for a bike, weight capacity is an issue.

--
Bill Connell
St. Paul, MN

[cm]

How can you not love the Atlantis? The Bombadil is amazing! The
previous posts cover the differences
between them much better than I could ever do. The only thing that I
would add is that, in my experience,
touring bikes get beat up pretty badly. Being outside in the wide
range of weather, grit, banged around at camp, non-ideal
locking situations all beat up a bike pretty quickly. Some people
arent comfortable with this and it takes away from the enjoyment of
the trip. I have seen people buy the least expensive bike that suits
their needs for touring (ie the LHT) and then using their Riv for
other riding. Maybe you are ok with it, and that is awesome (bikes are
meant to be ridden)-- but there is nothing wrong-- and a lot right--
with having a bike just for touring. I have an old Trek that I tour
with and the Riv for most other things. Nothing worse than touring
with someone who is so worried about their bike that they cant seem to
enjoy themselves. Just one more thing to consider.

Cheers!
cm

[EricP]

I'll disagree the Hillborne is out. My own weight is 240 pounds and
have done an S24O on my Hillborne with no ill effects. In fact, Sam
is the bike I've ridden the most this year. Also own an Atlantis.
For fully loaded "ruff stuff" touring, would take that. Nothing wrong
with Sam being on unpaved roads and some trails. Although with "just"
40s the tires might not be perfect for serious single track with
baggage.

Would argue that if you are a gentle rider, you could probably do a
fully-loaded tour on the Hillborne.

But yes, if the tour is primarily dirt based, then the Atlantis or
Bombadil would probably be the better bet. That being said, I'd
recommend the same whether you weigh 200 or 150.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

> > contemplation.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[PATRICK MOORE]

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 6:35 AM, Garth <gart...@gmail.com> wrote:

.  Some of the really big 700c

tires look [cool] and all , but they can weigh up to and over two pounds

per tire! This can make them feel a bit sluggish at times.

For the record, the 60 mm Big Apples, at almost 2 lb in 559 size and right at 2 lb in the 622 size, roll very well for their width -- even at 12/15 psi! (On very wide rims). Certainly, both roll better on pavement than the equally wide 700C X 2.35 622 Exiwolfs, which IIRC is lighter than even the 559 60 mm Big Apples, and which, in its turn, rolls better on pavement than most knobbies I've used.

--
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
Professional Resumes. Contact resumesp...@gmail.com

[Don]

Hey,
I have some limited experience with my Sam Hillborne but I will be
glad to share it.
Forgive me if I seem a bit gushy, but it is how I really feel. I am a
very satisfied customer.
I just purchased my SH for many of the reasons you list for your
purchase. I don't think
that I will be doing as much off-road as you will. But if I were I
think the SH could handle it
with perhaps some larger tires.
I am taller and heavier that you (6'2" 225 lbs) Budget somewhat guided
my choice, but in
many ways I think the SH is worthy of being one's first choice.
Since receiving my bike a little less than two weeks ago I have been
riding the heck out of it
commuting, and extended daily rides. It is an absolute dream that
already far exceeds all of
my expectations. You could say that it is a bit premature to say this
but I have the feeling that
this bike will only get better and better the more I use it.
I have had about 250 lbs including me on it and it can take that and
more. It is sure footed,stout,
buttery smooth, and surprisingly nimble. When I have needed to step on
it in situations it goes.
This is my first RIV so I am a bit over the top about it. Clearly, it
is superior to any other bike
I have owned. But I have only been a CroMoly steel guy and I have had
some
beauties (Schwinn Peloton, Myata 610).
I don't know how long RBW has been selling the SH but I think once the
word gets out it will be a top seller
if it is not already. And it is a bargain to boot!
Lastly, I can't say enough about the folks at RBW. They walked me
through the process (thanks Keven!) and
were spot on with all of their recommendations. I would have purchased
a smaller size, and that would have been
ok but given all of my measurements and how I would lay out on the
frame, the 60cm is perfect. I'll becha
you will get rave reviews for a Atlantis or a Bombadil. But be sure to
take a real good look at a
Sam Hillborne. In burnt orange it also stunning. A chariot fit for a
king.
Soon I hope to have some photos up. If I can just stop riding and take
the time to shoot them.
Good luck and cheers,
Don

On Aug 10, 10:57 pm, broken_cynic <broken.cy...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Tim McNamara]

On Aug 11, 2009, at 5:37 AM, Johnny Alien wrote:

> On Aug 10, 10:57 pm, broken_cynic <broken.cy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> If you were contemplating the purchase of either a Sam Hillborne, a
>> Bombadil or an Atlantis as an all-rounder which was to be used mainly
>> for commuting and the occasional weekend trail ride to start with,
>> then proceeding to s24o type outings, shorter and eventually longer
>> unsupported touring to include some off-road elements, which would
>> you
>> lean toward and why? At 6'1 and just shy of 200lbs I'd need one of
>> the stouter frames if it is to carry myself and a load of gear over
>> rough ground. I know the "right" answer is to ride all three and go
>> with whichever feels best, but it will a few months at best before I
>> have that opportunity and the question is burning a hole in my mind
>> right now, so I'm enlisting your opinions as a sort of vicarious
>> contemplation.
>

> You actually can get the info you need right on Rivendell. For your
> weight the Hilborne is pretty much out. Rivendell lists the the
> weight limit on the SH as 240lbs combined for passenger and load.

Not if he keeps his total weight below 240,. Less than 40 lbs of
gear for an S24O is easy and for a long unsupported tour can be
done. The 2 wheeled Winnebago mentality makes bike touring much less
pleasant than it ought to be.

And, I suspect that Rivendell's weight limits are very conservative.

[Johnny Alien]

I surely did not mean to sell the Sammy H short in any way. Beyond
the Rivendell PDF I have been told by 2 of their dealers that if I
planned on doing any heavy touring to heed those weight limits. I am
SURE that it is a tad conservative and as long as the original poster
is looking at light touring and s24o action than the SH is probably
way more than enough. But if it was me looking and I was investing a
good deal into a bike frame I would get the one that fit as many of my
needs as possible. If the original poster thinks that he may do any
heavy duty touring at any point it might make sense to go with a frame
that is designed to handle a little more weight than the SH.

I myself own a Bleriot and am very aware of what that frame can handle
so I have no doubts of the greatness of the SH. One of those in
orange is on my short list to acquire within the next year.

[erik jensen]

i kinda cringe at the thought of owning an Atlantis and not wanting to use it for touring to the point that a similarly nice yet less expensive bike, a LHT, is purchased.

What's the point of buying a really expensive touring bicycle and then not bringing that onto the road for extended and rough trips? It just seems like a lot of consumption to me, the lack thereof being the great reason to buy a lifetime bicycle like a rivendell. I love the scratches and dings on my atlantis, which cost me about a half year's surplus of full-time income and craigslisting to boot to afford at my mere 23 years but has since seen everything from snow to rain to desert. I imagine that it will be looking fine indeed once I spend a few years worth of nights camping with it.

I paused at saying anything this morning, but darn if I can keep from it this time around. I also enjoy rebuilding headsets and finding all the goodies left-over from "that time when..."

My vote? Buy the best you can afford reasonably and ride the hell out of it. That's the point. The atlantis is a fine bike indeed.

Best,

erik

[erik jensen]

so i amalgamated a few posts into one general otherwise trend to respond to with that post, it's been a long day and i realize that this wasn't really applicable directly here in its entirety. so nobody go getting personally off'ed or anything.

cheers

[cm]

What I was pointing out was this... some people are not comfortable
using a bike that costs them a substanitial amount of money
(regardless of what company made the bike) as a touring bike. Some
people love scratches and rust and some dont-- and I think both are
ok. A lot of consumption? That seems like a stretch to me-- I mean, I
have a tuxedo that I dont wear to do yard work, not because it isnt up
to the task, but because to me it isnt the best option to do yard work
in. Having similiar articles,clothes, shoes, bikes, or whatever, that
may have overlap of function but not purpose seems pretty natural.
And, I think that is up to the individual to determine-- not carved in
stone. I agree that bikes are meant to be ridden, but how they are to
be ridden is a personal thing.

For the record, I dont tour on the Riv because it isnt a touring bike,
not out of fear of scratches, rust, dings, or dents. But also for the
record, I have done a fair number of tours, and for me, I wouldnt
spend that much money on a bike that gets abused the way my touring
bike get abused. If someone else wants to, perfect, but no way for me.
A touring bike needs to be just good enough..not great-- unless you
want it to be great.

They are all great bikes (including the Surly). Get the one that you
see yourself riding the most and being happiest with.

Not even close to offended-- You do your thing, I will do mine, and we
can high five when we cross paths.

Cheers!
cm

[JoelMatthews]

> What's the point of buying a really expensive touring bicycle and then
> not bringing that onto the road for extended and rough trips?

I agree. Touring takes a lot out of the body. You want the best
possible bike that will absorb the bumps and knocks with aplomb. Too
many things can go wrong out on the road. A great touring bike like
the Atlantis is not very likely to be one of those things.

[Kevin Turinsky]

The Atlantis is an incredibly versatile machine. If you're ever going
to ride it in the snow w/ wide rims, like 45mm SnowCats, go w/ the
Atlantis instead of the SH. If you don't live anywhere near snow and
snow-packed winter trails, then the SH is probably the ride for you.

Here are some photos of what I've done w/ my Atlantis:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28720636@N02/sets/72157609908249398/

Here's another link to an amazing Flickr Atlantis photo collection:
http://fiveprime.org/flickr_hvmnd.cgi?method=GET&sorting=Interestingness&photo_type=250&page=1&noform=t&search_domain=Tags&photo_number=50&sort=Interestingness&tag_mode=all&textinput=atlantis,rivendell&search_type=Tags

Let us know what you decide!!
Kevin

[Fai Mao]

I am 5 11 and 190 lbs. I love my Sam Hillborne. I have one of the 52
CM frames

I don't know what the weight limit on the frame is but I ride it with
the Maxy-Fasty tires on Velocity Dyad rims and DT-Swiss 370 hubs. Kind
of a fast commuter and when I tour I travel light with less than 15
lbs of gear but a credit card with a high limit. However, I am sure
the light hubs reduce the weight limit of the bike.

My other options that I looked at were inporting a Dawes Galaxy or
Thorn Nomad or Mercian King of Mercia from the UK but the currency
conversion crashed the budget. I've toured all over Asia, in some
rather difficult places and I can't really imagine a place that I
would go that the SH wouldn't handle well. Obviously, you have to know
the limits of your bicycle and riding ability.

On Aug 12, 6:51 am, Johnny Alien <johnnyal...@verizon.net> wrote:
> I surely did not mean to sell the Sammy H short in any way.  Beyond
> the Rivendell PDF I have been told by 2 of their dealers that if I
> planned on doing any heavy touring to heed those weight limits.  I am
> SURE that it is a tad conservative and as long as the original poster
> is looking at light touring and s24o action than the SH is probably
> way more than enough.  But if it was me looking and I was investing a
> good deal into a bike frame I would get the one that fit as many of my
> needs as possible.  If the original poster thinks that he may do any
> heavy duty touring at any point it might make sense to go with a frame
> that is designed to handle a little more weight than the SH.
>
> I myself own a Bleriot and am very aware of what that frame can handle
> so I have no doubts of the greatness of the SH.  One of those in
> orange is on my short list to acquire within the next year.
>
> On Aug 11, 6:39 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 11, 2009, at 5:37 AM, Johnny Alien wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 10, 10:57 pm, broken_cynic <broken.cy...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > >> If you were contemplating the purchase of either aSamHillborne, a

> > >> Bombadil or an Atlantis as an all-rounder which was to be used mainly
> > >> for commuting and the occasional weekend trail ride to start with,
> > >> then proceeding to s24o type outings, shorter and eventually longer
> > >> unsupported touring to include some off-road elements, which would  
> > >> you
> > >> lean toward and why?  At 6'1 and just shy of 200lbs I'd need one of
> > >> the stouter frames if it is to carry myself and a load of gear over
> > >> rough ground.  I know the "right" answer is to ride all three and go
> > >> with whichever feels best, but it will a few months at best before I
> > >> have that opportunity and the question is burning a hole in my mind
> > >> right now, so I'm enlisting your opinions as a sort of vicarious
> > >> contemplation.
>
> > > You actually can get the info you need right on Rivendell.  For your
> > > weight the Hilborne is pretty much out.  Rivendell lists the the
> > > weight limit on the SH as 240lbs combined for passenger and load.
>
> > Not if he keeps his total weight below 240,.  Less than 40 lbs of  
> > gear for an S24O is easy and for a long unsupported tour can be  
> > done.  The 2 wheeled Winnebago mentality makes bike touring much less  
> > pleasant than it ought to be.
>

> > And, I suspect that Rivendell's weight limits are very conservative.- Hide quoted text -