Rat Trap Pass: reviews? impressions? poetic waxings?

[Patch T]

They've been out for just over a year now, yeah? More? 

Who has been riding them extensively, and can share some solid feedback? Where and how do you ride them? On what? With whom? And why?!?!

I'm interested in getting the Standards, but would like to read about the Extralights, too.

(If there's already the same thread, apologies, I searched but couldn't find it)

Love,

Patch

[Gravel & Grind Espresso + Bikes]

I’ve had ‘em on my Hunqapillar for about half a year.  I commute, do fire roads, single track with rocks, short dirt road tours.  Tread wear is as to be expected from such a light tire.  Paselas they are not, for durability on the tread.  They also don’t grip nearly as well as Paselas, as I found when corning in the rain, and my whole bike flew out from under me, as did the guy’s bike right behind me, riding the same tire.   

Pluses:  great ride quality, I run em around 30 psi.  Low weight.  Look great.  

Downsides:  super thin.  They flat on any little sharp object.  Not gunna last more than 2000 miles, for me at least.  Maybe 1500, really.  Expensive.

Tubeless:  I didn’t want to run mine tubeless, but I set them up that way after repeatedly flatting on them.  2-3 flats for a weekend tour.  Can’t handle that.  I used orange seal enduro sealant and tape, and Stan’s valves.  No flats since, and that was 5 months ago.  

Recommendation: get em if light weigh, supple, basically bald tires sound like they might fit your riding style, and you are willing to convert to tubeless.  As a rule, when setting them up on customers bikes, I urge tubeless conversions, and most of the 12 pair or so I’ve sold go out the door tubeless.  

-james

co-owner of Gravel & Grind

[Rod Holland]

I had an experience recently that may be relevant. As part of a hilly 30-mile loop in the Boston suburbs, intended as a training ride for a gravel ramble in the Vermont hills later in the month, I came to a long segment (maybe 2 miles?) of grooved pavement in a hilly stretch of Concord Ave., Lexington. I was riding my Surly Trucker DeLuxe, a 26" touring bike equipped with RTP ELs (affectionately known as the "Monster Trucker"). After riding to the top of the first of several hills, I plunged without hesitation into what soon became an all-in descent; the tires made this feel like the right thing to do, and that feeling increased through a 35 mph run, and was repeated in two more descents before the pavement reverted to normal. The fact that I dropped a couple of roadies who were gingerly negotiating that stretch on 23 mm tires was, of course, icing on the cake. The fact that the tires were also doing their thing admirably on the smooth pavement, as well, made it sensible for me to be out riding them on what was basically an all-pavement ride in the first place. The Surly frame (which I like well enough, btw, and have run happily with other tires) was incidental: in this case, it was really about the tires, making possible things that didn't feel wise before, in this case a 35 mph descent on grooved pavement. The tires are the thing. Maybe someone will come up with one or more optimal bicycles to match them, but in the meantime, they make any bike that can fit them a whole lot better.

By way of data points, no flats in 600 miles, no traction problems in the rain. I'm running the RTP ELs on Sun Rhyno Lite rims at 30/35 PSI. I've taken them on pavement rough and smooth, city and country, gravel ranging from stone dust to railroad ballast, dirt, roots, rocks, the last three on single track and our local "abandoned carriage roads". I'm not running tubeless. I find they spin up well from a standing start, and that the pneumatic suspension rewards standing on the pedals in those situations, good for when the light changes. They climb happily (they climb, the rider is happy).

rod

On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 7:16:59 PM UTC-4, Patch T wrote:

[Clayton]

I have been using the ultra lights with the tan sidewall. The sidewalls are translucent. Very, very light tires with a delicious ride. Supple. Sort of like riding on just an inner tube as the tire.

 

When I first installed them, the front end washed out on clean dry pavement and I wrecked. I blame the mold release on the tires combined with the pressure at 40 psi.  After the crash,  I took a long ride in the dirt to scrub the mold release off and now run the tires at 30 psi, which seems ideal. I have been a little reluctant to corner real hard (still have the road rash) but I'll head to a parking lot one of these days and see how far I can lean them. I rack the wreck up to operator error.....(I knew about mold release on tires).

If I was to purchase again, I'd get the standard, not the ultralights. The standards are really light. 

Beware, once you are spoiled by the ride of these tires, it will be hard to take them off. 

I haven't had them long enough to report on wear, but due to my wreck, I am thinking they might have a harder compound, and should last longer than they appear they would. 

Last but not least, they look really cool. 

Clayton (Bend)

[Lungimsam]

What do you mean by "mold release".

[Ryan Thompson]

I running a set of standard RTPs on a 86' Schwinn Cimarron and love them.  No flats in 300 miles and I run them at 35/40psi, but maybe I should lower that a bit.  The bike is set up with dirt drop bars and I consistently return a higher average speed on my commute as compared to my Sam Hillborne with Soma C-lines.

On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 7:16:59 PM UTC-4, Patch T wrote:

[Steve Palincsar]

The light sidewalls on the Compass ELs make you think they're "event tires," but in fact they have a reasonably thick tread, the same thickness as the standard tires.  Unlike many "event tires" that for me last only about 1,000 miles, the Compass X-pass in 32mm and 28mm last as long as Grand Bois Cypres 32mm or Paselas.

[Scott Loveless]

A mold release agent, typically silicon-based, is applied to the mold
used in the production of tires and tubes. It's what gives them their
shiny appearance when new. It's also slick. When you repair a tube
with a patch, the purpose of sanding is to remove the mold release
agent so the patch, vulcanite glue and tube can bond properly.

On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 2:59 PM, Lungimsam <john1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> What do you mean by "mold release".
>

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[Patch T]

Thanks both of you. 

I'm a small guy, and live in a very dry Los Angeles. Wanting to build an old Trek mtb I found into an overnighter road+dirt camper/tourer. Thinking these may still fit my bill. 

James, are you running the Extralights or Standards? Have you experienced both? Worried about sidewall protection, as rocks out here get big & sharp. 

Rod, have you been carrying much poundage on these?

Both of you's, are you heavy dudes or light or in-between?

I did find more info over at iBob, and am learning of the layover between, but would still like to put this out there to Riv folks.

Thanks again all.

[Steve Palincsar]

You also want to remove it from the tread of a brand new tire, for the
same reason.

[Beardpapa]

I have the standards. I first road them on a loaner bike in Seattle. The dreamy ride motivated me to build up a bike that could take em. They roll as fast as the Babyshoe Pass (650B) and Barlow Pass (700) on my other bikes with even more pillowy float. I haven't tried them on trails or dirt yet. Highly, highly recommended. 

[dstein]

I have the standards on a hunqapillar and love them. I was sort of thinking of selling my hunq due to too much overlap but after putting some RTP on them it has breathed new life (into an already awesome bike, but one that was setup w/ knobbies and used mostly for trail riding). I've used them in all kinds of riding conditions and come to the conclusion I can keep them on year round except for the rainy season in northern california. A little slippery in rain as James pointed out. Not great with loose sand or mud (which is a given since they're knobbies, but I still pushed its limits and found out the hard way), otherwise great for road, fire roads, singletrack, etc.

[Mark in Beacon]

Wow. No grip in wet conditions and short tread life are not things I've hear about the RTP up till now. I have a pair, but only rode them briefly before I took apart the bike they were on. I am in the process of building a different bike and plan to use these tires. This will be mainly a commuting machine (heard they were not bad regarding flats, but plan to run them with tubes that have a squirt of Orange Seal just in case. In any case, just about any bike I build these days has to be for commuting;^) but obviously leery of a slippery when wet tire. Of course I expect any tire to let go at some point while cornering in the rain, but usually it is the cheaper tires with harder compounds. The fact that the guy directly behind you wiped in the same spot makes me wonder--could there have been something else on the road that day?

[dstein]

Mark - take James word over mine, I'm not a fan of riding in the rain in general and don't have many tires to compare it for wet riding conditions. 

[Lungimsam]

Thats odd because Heine states that tge tread rubber is super grippy even in rain,iirc.

[Lungimsam]

Fir all Compass tires, iirc.

[clayton bailey]

When tires are manufactured, the inside of the molds are sprayed with a substance to make the rubber release after cooking them. Until that thin coating wears off, the tires can be quite slippery. I learned this in the motorcycle world, where it is VERY important to know your tires and what affects their traction. Don't ask how I learned this important lesson. 

Clayton

On Friday, August 19, 2016 11:59 AM, Lungimsam <john1...@gmail.com> wrote:

What do you mean by "mold release".

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[Gravel & Grind Espresso + Bikes]

No one is gunna claim their tires don't grip in the rain, especially if they live in Seattle.  I don't think these tires have bad grip, for what they are, but Paselas have way more grip, in my experience.  Paselas are also slower feeling, and as the saying goes, there's no free lunch.  Gotta give up something.  One just has to be aware of limitations, with any equipment.  

[Mark in Beacon]

I would agree with Gravel & Grind that most designers would be reluctant to advertise shortcomings. But I was surprised at just how contradictory this review was to the item description (ie, sales copy) on the Compass website. Your review in a nutshell: Low mileage, repeated flatting, poor wet weather handling, but faster. The product blurb:

Compass tires are designed to offer optimum performance above all. Their supple casing is key to making these tires roll faster than most. It also absorbs vibrations and shocks better, making these tires supremely comfortable. The tire tread was designed to offer optimum cornering adhesion and precision, both in wet and dry conditions.

Despite this focus on performance, Compass tires are sensible everyday tires. The tread is 3 mm thick in the center to last many miles, unlike thinner high-performance tires which are best treated as “event” tires. We at Compass ride our tires year-round on the road, on gravel and in the city, without any problems and with very, very few flats.

Maybe there is something about the RTP that makes them different from the other tires in the lineup? I have heard of a few people that have reported lots of flats on some of the 700C, but most seem to be reporting results closer to the ad copy. One theory is that wider tires run with lower pressures are less susceptible to being pierced. I'm curious because your experience just seems so far from the feedback to this point. More than curious, since I will be running these again soon. During the initial run, I did not have enough mileage, nor did I ride them in rain or wet, to have an opinion or experience on any of the above parameters, though I liked the road feel.

[Philip Kim]

These tires are expensive but fast. Corners like you might expect from a bald tire though I don't push it. I think it might be a diff story if there were actually wide 26 rim brake rims for these tires. Most of them are in the 17-20 internal width range. Grip is pretty decent, but Thunder Burts they are not. I view them as plusher road tires. If I did gravel or off road, I would choose Thunder Burts or something else.

I sold the standards to "upgrade" to ELs. So far don't think EL's are worth the price. Was just in G&G and got standards to put on once I wear through the ELs. Same amount of tread, walls are thinner, more difficult to seat the bead tubeless. Tread life is less of a worry than sidewall damage.

If you are value-oriented or prioritize grip, there are some better tires, but if you wanna go fast these are the way to go.

[Rod Holland]

They're certainly not cheap, but they're also not bald. Low profile file tread. Pretty grippy, in my experience. Not Paselas, different feel, but also not Kojaks... and not water skis...

rod

[Mark in Beacon]

The tread pattern on my RTP is the same as the one on my 700C Stampedes. A fatter 26" tire with this minimal herringbone road tread will definitely look pretty smooth.

Since this is RBW, here are their tips on tires:

https://www.rivbike.com/kb_results.asp?ID=58

Jack Brown

Tread for Roads
On dry asphalt, the road embeds itself into the tire, so you'll get the best traction with a slick, which increases the contact patch with the road. 

Once the road is damp or wet, some kind of tread helps. This violates some tire-grip theories out there, but I quit riding pure slicks in the winter when I started scratching out on steep climbs, and slipping around corners. Tread helps in the wet, but you don't need a lot of it, just some. That's why the Roll-y Pol-y and Ruffy Tuffy and Jack Brown have the tread they do. Half smooth, half slight tread, and it seems to work. 

(When you ride on a wet road, just watch it around corners. No crash due to slipping is ever the tire's fault. Even if somebody made an oil-impregnated tire that oozed oil constantly as part of the Plan, it's still your job to figure out what you can and can't do on the tire.)

[Rod Holland]

Right. Key word is "look". They look slow, too, to some who haven't ridden them.

Love the last paragraph of the Riv quote.

rod

[Jan Heine]

It's not clear to me why a tire would have to grip worse in the rain to be faster. Both grip and speed are improved with softer rubber – ask any skateboarder about this! So a tire that grips better in the rain also will be faster.

When you compare tread patterns, the Pasela is basically a slick tire. Those little grooves don't do anything – Panaracer is very honest about them being a "design feature". The Compass tread has many ribs that interlock with the road surface, so it actually grips a lot better in the wet.

Most of all, the Paselas are made by the same company as the Compass tires - Panaracer. The biggest difference is in the casing – the tread material is similar, albeit a bit grippier on the high-end tires.

As you pointed out, we do ride in Seattle. It rains here. We love to descend fast. We wouldn't accept a tire that didn't grip well in the rain. Here is a photo of the "BQ Team during a cold and rainy descent. Sorry for the poor photo quality – it was dark and cold and rainy on the January day when it was taken.

I am sorry that you and your friend crashed on the Rat Trap Pass tires. I think you just encountered a really slick spot, and you probably would have crashed on any tire.

Jan Heine

Compass Cycles

www.compasscycle.com

[Jan Heine]

The Rat Trap Pass use the same casings, same tread pattern, and same tread thickness as the other tires in the Compass line. We did a lot of testing with prototypes to make sure that you could actually use such a supple casing on such a wide tire – nobody had ever done that before.

As to tread wear, the wider the tire, the more rubber touches the road. So the wear is spread over a larger surface, and the tire lasts longer. It's that simple. Our tires have a somewhat thicker tread than event tires like the Soma Grand Randonneur or the Pari-Motos. Again, we did a lot of testing to see how thick we could make the tread rubber without slowing down the tire significantly, so we could optimize speed and longevity.

I get about 5000 miles out of a set of Babyshoe Pass tires before I retire them. When I cut them apart to check the wear, I am always surprised how much tread is left – I probably could have ridden them another 1-2000 miles. I haven't yet worn out a set of Rat Trap Pass, so I cannot comment on how much longer they last.

Of course, you'll find tires that last longer (harder rubber that doesn't grip well, thicker tread that rolls slowly), but for a high-performance tire, I am very happy with the mileages we and others get on these tires.

Jan Heine

Compass Cycles

www.compasscycle.com

[Lee Legrand]

Listen to what Keith Bontrager says about wide tires.  Not directed at you Jan.  It is at 2:35.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpxUcfZhxLk&list=TL7aUwq5E8PH4yMjA4MjAxNg

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[Jan Heine]

That is interesting stuff, but I think the idea that wider tires are a disadvantage on smooth roads is a bit outdated. I wonder when this video was recorded.

You might also be interested in a podcast that featured Josh Poertner, formerly of Zipp (now of Silca), James Huang and me, talking about the latest research. I was surprised that the guys at Zipp came to the same conclusions as we did at Bicycle Quarterly, only their research was top secret and only available to their sponsored riders! You can listen to the discussion here:

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/08/cyclingtips-podcast-episode-9-rethinking-road-bike-tire-sizes-and-pressures/

Jan Heine

Compass Cycles

www.compasscycle.com

On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 8:31:22 AM UTC+9, Lee Legrand wrote:

Listen to what Keith Bontrager says about wide tires.  Not directed at you Jan.  It is at 2:35.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpxUcfZhxLk&list=TL7aUwq5E8PH4yMjA4MjAxNg

On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 5:26 PM, Jan Heine <hei...@earthlink.net> wrote:

The Rat Trap Pass use the same casings, same tread pattern, and same tread thickness as the other tires in the Compass line. We did a lot of testing with prototypes to make sure that you could actually use such a supple casing on such a wide tire – nobody had ever done that before.

As to tread wear, the wider the tire, the more rubber touches the road. So the wear is spread over a larger surface, and the tire lasts longer. It's that simple. Our tires have a somewhat thicker tread than event tires like the Soma Grand Randonneur or the Pari-Motos. Again, we did a lot of testing to see how thick we could make the tread rubber without slowing down the tire significantly, so we could optimize speed and longevity.

I get about 5000 miles out of a set of Babyshoe Pass tires before I retire them. When I cut them apart to check the wear, I am always surprised how much tread is left – I probably could have ridden them another 1-2000 miles. I haven't yet worn out a set of Rat Trap Pass, so I cannot comment on how much longer they last.

Of course, you'll find tires that last longer (harder rubber that doesn't grip well, thicker tread that rolls slowly), but for a high-performance tire, I am very happy with the mileages we and others get on these tires.

Jan Heine

Compass Cycles

www.compasscycle.com

On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 1:47:26 AM UTC+9, Mark in Beacon wrote:

 

Maybe there is something about the RTP that makes them different from the other tires in the lineup? 

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[ascpgh]

The EL casing is so much more supple than most tires that my realization of too low of a pressure in my Stampede Pass Els was a low speed washout on the switchbacks of multi user ramp on a repurposed bridge, decked with concrete, on a sunny dry day, just as Clayton's. No "mold release" or bloom of tread compound liquor involved, all my fault, but these tires are so fantastic that I'm not surprised that I have to relearn so much of what I used to overlook as a given about tires.

My tire episode felt like it slipped, as Clayton described, but as soon as it occurred I looked down and saw that my big turn of the bars (30-35°)‚ at almost no forward speed twisted up the sidewalls, slack to that sort of force against the contact patch, and produced the wrinkles that immediately caused the sidewall to washout. I was just fortunate to see what happened.

Not too dissimilar to this appearance (that by horsepower, mine by a huge swing of the bars at low speed and an ill-advised low tire pressure):

Those Stampede Pass ELs on West Mountain, Hot Springs, National Park, AR

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh (Arkansas this week)

[Bill in Roswell GA]

Thanks for sharing the link, Jan. Very informative and often entertaining discussion. Candid, too, but respectfully so. Nice that you're getting recognition for all the tire testing contributions you and crew have made over the years.

Quite interesting was discussion of the effect that wider tires has had on modern bike design. And disk brakes are allowing that envelope to expand, which was further discussed in a later podcast.

Good stuff!

Cheers,

Bill in Roswell, GA

[Jim Bronson]

Since the blurb you are commenting on is about Compass tires in
general as opposed to just RTP, let me just say that, I think they
handle just as well as anything else out there in the rain! I've done
quite a few rainy rides on them, on warm days and cold ones.

I also get many less flats than on other light supple tires I have
tried. The center tread is definitely thicker.

Where I would not use these tires would be any off-roading where you
might encounter sharp rocks. The sidewall is very thin.

Jim

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[Kowalsky]

Hi,

I feel a bit crazy as I just received a pair of these... well, it's my little Christmas presi?

Of course I had to inspect them first and a few questions came up that I did not find on my wild search in the net and I was wondering if there are some who'd know a bit more?

- I was wondering how to read the manufacturing date (e.g. N15 on the left, 2 circles 12 dots, 1 circle 10 dots and a S1 on the far right)?

- The Rat Trap Pass is recommended with a Schwalbe SV13. At the moment I have only the SV14 here and before buying those SV13, I was curious for the reason (minimal better puncture resistance, better roll off, little stiffer tire...etc)? I wrote to Compass about this a few days ago, but didn't hear back yet.

- And a silly one at last: One tire came in at 452gr, the other with 20gr more at 472gr. Not too nice, but not too crazy I guess. Still wondering where/how these extra 5% add up (I hope not on a single spot, or cause unevenness)?

Thanks

[phil k]

The tires are made by Panaracer, and these tires are made by hand - which may explain why there is a slight difference in weight, yet crafted very carefully.

The RTPs are some of my favorite tires, if only they made more bikes that fit them. I would get the SC 14s, as the tires on 23mm outside width rims measure around 50mm.

-Phil

Arlington, VA

[Kowalsky Mist]

Thanks Phil!

Yeah, my rim is 20mm on the inside and 27mm on the outside and the tire measures 50mm. One SV14 blew at around 48 psi, one survived ;) A Michelin "tank" tube replaced the other.
Unfortunately one tire is a complete banana, very poorly crafted, maybe by an intern or so. Which gives me also the impression quality control doesn't exist there. The black center tread is off b about 4 mm on several spots where it's suppose to connect with the sidewall. All the spots where it doesn't make it to the sidewall are paper thin, plus the corners of tread is about 1mm thinner there. Fortunately it looks like I will get a replacement, time consuming but nonetheless uncomplicated so far, lets see.

Ride wise I'm quite surprised not so positive for now. At 25/30 PSI it's not as plush as I expected. Not sure if my Gauge on the Turbo Morph is accurate, didn't compare it yet. According to that pump my Panaracer Ribmos 1.75 where at 18/22 PSI which is way under their recommended PSI, but they where great that way.

Riding the RTP at 22/26 at the moment, feels better ...but also not recommneded, but the only real approvement that way.

I was mostly surprised about the different handling/stearing with these tires. On one side you feel like riding a big boat or an old Cadillac, BUT the stearing is realy agile, in a weird way. The tire, unless holding the steerer real stable on straight, the front turns imediatelly and radically, this multiplies with stuff on your front rack. Did not get used to it yet. I don't get the physics why, but its a lot more work for the arms and wrists.

Well, we'll see... as many say, you got to find your sweet spot on the pressure and for now I don't ride it with the little shaky banana tire on the front.

Cheers,
K

[Scot]

I know I'm late to the party, but thought some input might still be helpful. I put the RTP EL on my '83 Stumpjumper with Velocity Cliffhangers and tubes about 6 months ago. I got the Extralight version because the Standard was not in stock anywhere. I LOVE THESE TIRES!!!! I don't know the distance I've ridden on them because the bike is mostly used around town and I don't log those miles. I also have never ridden them in the rain. After saying that, they are FAST and feel great. The only other non-knobby, 26" tires I have experience with are Schwalbe Big Apple which are wire bead and heavy, but still seem fast rolling just a slower start and less grip.  I enjoy the Rat Trap Pass tires so much I went with the Bon Jon Pass for my Roadini build and those are great too. No flats yet. Most my riding is street and paved trails on those tires though.

About a year ago I was riding with a buddy in our local mountains on fire roads. I had the Extraterrestrials on my Troll and he was running the RTP Standard on his Crust Romanceur. It seemed that both of us handled similarly in the loose dirt sections.

Scot

Orange, CA

[DN]

I liked my first RTP so much, that I got another one for the other bile. This time the "Extralight", not for the weight, but the color (kind of lame).

Not so happy with it this time:
After less than 10km a pretty bad cut.


After less than 100km a rusty, not sharp hook in the tire, on gravel

I'll see how long this one will last, but will most likely skip this tire in the future and start looking for alternatives again.

[DN]

Got my 2nd pair for another build. This time the Ultralight, not for the weight, but the color (a bit ridiculous).

I was and still am happy with my first pair. Not so much with the second.

This after less than 10km (street):

And this after less than 100km (gravel):

I'll see how it continues, but will most likely look for a new tire next time. I love the ride on them, but they seem too expensive and weak unless you stay just on the street (and even then).

[Michael Morrissey]

I just got back from the local bike shop to pick up a new tire and swap out my Rat Trap Pass. I had two flats within the same week on the same tire. The smoothness of the ride is incredible, but they simply do not hold up to real world use for me. The riding I do is aggressive NYC daily commuting, hopping curbs, frequent gravel/broken glass/sand/road debris. Perhaps they are best left to the Instagram-perfect desert riders I see on The Radavist. I also previously tried to set them up tubeless, but neither tire would seal properly for more than an hour.

I really like the ride so I am going to try a RTP on the front and a WTB knobby on the back. I don’t need my tires to match, and it makes sense to have a thicker tire on the back where most of my weight is anyway. I’m quite disappointed.

M

[Mackenzy Albright]

I've also found the tires eat glass shards and anything sharp like mad. Also recently found on any muddy surface there like riding on ice.

I've switched to running a 2.1 racing Ralph on the front and a RTP on the rear. I've found it a nice setup as long as I'm extra careful to steer clear of sharps.

[Mark Roland]

Breaking news on iBOB: Riding high performance bicycle tires through glass strewn streets may cause flats; wide tires with no tread are slippery in mud.

Lucky for me, I don't have the same experience with RTP EL. I get high performance and few flats.  I don't ride them on Instagram, but also not on streets filled with glass--somewhere in between. I have experienced very few flats. I don't use them when conditions will be extremely muddy; otherwise they are quite capable on gravel and dirt roads and light trails. Both pairs are lasting longer than I would have expected. They are a blast to ride, well worth it for me.

[Mark Roland]

My bad. Got suckered into  a &%%$@! zombie thread. I find these almost as annoying as slashing a sidewall on a new tire. C'mon people, if a thread was started 4 years ago and last zombied two years ago, it's okay to start a new thread, even on a similar or identical topic. This has become a mini trend. Yes, I'm stupid, I didn't notice. But that's part of what makes them so annoying. Maybe everyone else loves them, and it's just a pet peeve of mine? If so, apologies, carry on.

[Ryan M.]

I’ve used the Antelope Hill, Steliacoom, and the Stampede Pass tires in the past and never had flatting issues. I wouldn’t use them as a durable commuting tire though...that’s not really their purpose.

[Mackenzy Albright]

Also. I didn't point this out in the last post-but I ran baby shoe and rat traps (neither were the extra lites) Even though they eat glass, I have only really had one cut large enough to patch. When I DID get a flat I saw all the glass and shards embedded and plucked it all out with a needle. The tubeless system worked amazingly as long as you kept them topped up with orange seal. I'm running tubes now and little issues with flatting with a good amount of inner city commuting and chunky rocky trails.

I'll continue to run them on the rear. I think they're good all around and easy enough to patch. I think they're worth the comfort and speed. IMO. Hopping on my bike with schwalbe marathons just feels harsh and dead to me after such a cush ride.