New Atlantis setup, loving the drops

[Mark Reimer]

I've been riding albatross bars for the last few months after more than a year on dirt drops, and I decided it was time for a change. Alba's are awesome in the city, but I found the upright position a bit inhibiting for bigger and longer efforts. With fall coming up, I've got some longer rides planned and wanted a bar more suitable for century rides and such. I put the trusty Noodles back on and tried this gorgeous deep purple cloth tape. I'm very pleased. It's amazing how changing your bars totally transforms the feeling of a bike. What used to feel very relaxed and lazy now feels quick and sporting. Fun!

Also just a reminder that if anyone out there has a 61 Atlantis or 58 Hunq... I'm looking to trade my 58 atlantis!

[René Sterental]

Any reason for going with non-aero brake levers? I

'm considering them for my custom to try them for the look/personality, but just read one if Jan's articles explaining why they are much harder to use from the hoods as that position has a much shorter lever arm and braking is better from the drops. 

On the aero levers, both positions have similar lever arms so braking from the hoods is much easier and equivalent to braking from the drops. 

René 

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[Tony DeFilippo]

Your Atlantis looks great Mark! I like the non-aero levers to.

Bar change must be in the air.. I've been riding with alba's on my Saluki for over a year now and have been getting itchy to put Noodles back on. I almost started last night but ended up messing around with my XO3 instead (moustache bars on that one).

[Mark Reimer]

René, a few reasons for those levers, with the main reason being that I had them kicking around, and didn't have any non-aero levers available. But beyond that, I think there is some aesthetic value there. The classic non-aero levers really look nice with a Rivendell in my opinion. You are correct about the braking issue though - braking from the hoods is pretty bad honestly. In the drops I have all the power I need, but man... at speed, braking from the hoods isn't a great option. 

On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 12:08 PM, Tony DeFilippo <vpi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Your Atlantis looks great Mark!  I like the non-aero levers to.

Bar change must be in the air.. I've been riding with alba's on my Saluki for over a year now and have been getting itchy to put Noodles back on.  I almost started last night but ended up messing around with my XO3 instead (moustache bars on that one).

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[Mark in Beacon]

I never got that one, other than maybe some don't have the hand strength to pull the lever completely from the hood position, which I guess takes a bit more muscle. I have non-aero on both my current drop setups and have never had an issue with braking from the hoods. The brake doesn't know where your hand is, so as long as you can comfortably apply the full braking motion, there should be no difference in stopping power. Just step up your iron fist kung fu training a bit and you should be fine. Most heavy/emergency braking is best done from the drops anyway, since it facilitates getting into a position that gets your weight back. For scrubbing speed you don't need the full court press.

That purple tape is royal!

On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 1:05:28 PM UTC-4, René wrote:

Any reason for going with non-aero brake levers? I

'm considering them for my custom to try them for the look/personality, but just read one if Jan's articles explaining why they are much harder to use from the hoods as that position has a much shorter lever arm and braking is better from the drops. 

On the aero levers, both positions have similar lever arms so braking from the hoods is much easier and equivalent to braking from the drops. 

René 

[Bill Lindsay]

Rene said that he:

" just read one if Jan's articles explaining why they are much harder to use from the hoods as that position has a much shorter lever arm and braking is better from the drops"

Jan is absolutely right and it's all just math.  The pivot for non-aero "traditional" brake levers is quite low.  Of course, if Jan said "much harder" then that's a subjective thing.  People have been using non-aero brakelevers for generations, and they've done just fine.  "Harder" is an objective fact, and just comes down to the math.  If your hands are strong enough, it doesn't matter, like Mark pointed out.  If having a lighter touch on the levers is something you prefer, or is something that makes you feel safer, then absolutely do that.  If having a firmer pull on the levers makes you feel more confident that you are in control, then absolutely do that.  If both styles work and feel fine for you, then choose based on ergonomics (how it feels riding on the hoods) or aesthetics.   

One thing you might want to add, Rene, is how the braking will feel relative to the rest of your stable.  I did a build recently with M.A.F.A.C. centerpulls and decided to use the stock brakelevers.  The braking was plenty powerful, but the lever feel was so different from my other 10 bikes, that I switched out the levers.  I decided it was more important to me that my many bikes feel relatively similar to each other, so my 'stop quick' grip on "Bike X" does not equal an "over the bars" grip on "Bike Y".  

I hope those thoughts help

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

 

[Steve Palincsar]

On 08/15/2016 02:55 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote:
> Rene said that he:
>
> " just read one if Jan's articles explaining why they are much harder
> to use from the hoods as that position has a much shorter lever arm
> and braking is better from the drops"
>
> Jan is absolutely right and it's all just math. The pivot for
> non-aero "traditional" brake levers is quite low. Of course, if Jan
> said "much harder" then that's a subjective thing. People have been
> using non-aero brakelevers for generations, and they've done just fine.

Well, that's true but there's a caveat: they did just fine braking from
the hooks, but not the hoods. That wasn't so popular until after aero
levers came in. And the reason for that change is obvious, once you try
both.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 08/15/2016 02:26 PM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
> I never got that one, other than maybe some don't have the hand
> strength to pull the lever completely from the hood position, which I
> guess takes a bit more muscle.

It's not "hand strength," it's more like "finger strength." From the
hoods you really don't get to use your more powerful hand muscles.

> I have non-aero on both my current drop setups and have never had an
> issue with braking from the hoods. The brake doesn't know where your
> hand is, so as long as you can comfortably apply the full braking
> motion, there should be no difference in stopping power. Just step up
> your iron fist kung fu training a bit and you should be fine.

I'm not even sure how you'd go about trying to strengthen those muscles.

[Ryan Fleming]

And this is where I love those groovy TRP levers. I can brake easily from the hoods or the drops...they are sinfully comfortable and they really work well ...esp. combined with the VO Grand Cru brakes which replaced the old Campy Super Record brakes and levers.

On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 1:23:37 PM UTC-5, Mark Reimer wrote:

René, a few reasons for those levers, with the main reason being that I had them kicking around, and didn't have any non-aero levers available. But beyond that, I think there is some aesthetic value there. The classic non-aero levers really look nice with a Rivendell in my opinion. You are correct about the braking issue though - braking from the hoods is pretty bad honestly. In the drops I have all the power I need, but man... at speed, braking from the hoods isn't a great option. 

On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 12:08 PM, Tony DeFilippo <vpi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Your Atlantis looks great Mark!  I like the non-aero levers to.

Bar change must be in the air.. I've been riding with alba's on my Saluki for over a year now and have been getting itchy to put Noodles back on.  I almost started last night but ended up messing around with my XO3 instead (moustache bars on that one).

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[Steve Palincsar]

On 08/15/2016 02:23 PM, Mark Reimer wrote:
> René, a few reasons for those levers, with the main reason being that
> I had them kicking around, and didn't have any non-aero levers
> available. But beyond that, I think there is some aesthetic value
> there. The classic non-aero levers really look nice with a Rivendell
> in my opinion. You are correct about the braking issue though -
> braking from the hoods is pretty bad honestly. In the drops I have all
> the power I need, but man... at speed, braking from the hoods isn't a
> great option.

I agree 100% on both points. The old-style non-aero levers look great.
And braking from the hoods is pretty bad.

[Deacon Patrick]

Zippy! Agreed on the Albatross. You're smarter than me. I took two years to figure that out. Grin.

With abandon,

Patrick

[René Sterental]

I will give the non-aero levers a try just to experience the difference and decide if I leave them or switch to the aero ones like I have on the other bikes with drop bars. Haven't used those since I was 16-17! Back when I didn't even know frames came in different sizes and just rode a bike I was loaned. I just thought I needed a longer seatpost for it... ;-)

Thanks for all the feedback! And yes, I do think the Atlantis looks better with drops and that bartape!

René 

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[Bill Lindsay]

Always keep a couple rolls of Eggplant Newbaums on hand for the ROYAL TREATMENT.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[John Hawrylak]

Mark,

The new does look 'royal'.

What front rack are you using?

What front bag is that?  It blends in well.

Do you use a decailluer?

Thanks

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

[Patrick Moore]

I've asked this question before in another context, but I'll ask it again here, since the general question has been raised: if non-aero levers require more force on the hoods, not because of the shape of the lever, but because the leverage is less favorable, then:

Doesn't this mean that non-aero levers are designed to pull more cable? IOW, is more force required because the lever moves the pads more for a given unit of distance? Or, is there some 3d reason, unknown to me, why more force is required?

My motive: if non-aeros pull more cable, then perhaps they might be a good mix for cable-operated disc brakes.

Patrick Moore, whose new BB7 Roads pulled by aero levers are working just fine at the moment.

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[Bill Lindsay]

John Hawrylak asked:

What front rack are you using?

What front bag is that?  It blends in well.

Do you use a decailluer?

Butt-in-sky Bill Lindsay replies:

The front rack is a Nitto Campee model 27F.  You can buy it from Somafab, Bens in Milwaukee, or Alex's straight from Japan.  

The bag is a Swift, I think.  The huge size and the curve of the side pockets are the clues that I'm using to guess that it is a LARGE Swift Ozette.  I may be wrong.  

Yes, he does have a VO headset mounted decaleur on the bike.  

[Mark Reimer]

Bill, you got it 100%! 

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[Bill Lindsay]

Not 100%.  I meant to call myself a buttinski.  Calling myself a butt-in-sky could be taken differently....I really meant that I have a tendency to answer questions not directed at me, when I think I know the answer.  I did not mean that my butt is currently pointed at the sky.  :-/

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Steve Palincsar]

On 08/15/2016 07:21 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:

I've asked this question before in another context, but I'll ask it again here, since the general question has been raised: if non-aero levers require more force on the hoods, not because of the shape of the lever, but because the leverage is less favorable

No, although I've never measured it, I don't think it's cable pull, but rather where you're pushing on the brake lever with respect to where the lever pivots.  The pivot is very close to where your fingers rest when you're trying to brake from the hoods, so the lever arm is very short, meaning more force is required; and you're trying to do it with the muscles you use when you're typing, the ones the make the fingers push down, rather than the strong ones you use to squeeze something inside your fist.

[Mark in Beacon]

Steve Palincsar wrote:
It's not "hand strength," it's more like "finger strength."  From the
hoods you really don't get to use your more powerful hand muscles.

My hand consists mainly of a bunch of fingers. See here:

Steve wondered: "I'm not even sure how you'd go about trying to strengthen those muscles." See here:

http://tinyurl.com/z3kou66

[Tom Virgil]

Oh, I get it.

[IanA]

What width are the Noodles? I have had 42cm and currently have 44cm and 46cm. The 46 are great on the hoods, but the drops are deep. The 44s are great in the drops and there's enough real estate on the top of the bars. I've found all three sizes that I've tried to be excellent.

Ian A/canada

[Patrick Moore]

Got it; thanks.

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[Mark Reimer]

These are 44cm I believe. I'd like to go wider though. After running dirt drops for a long time, these feel sooo skinny