Taking it to 2

[Patrick Moore]

On-topic content: Bike in question is the 1999 Joe Starck fixed gear road custom.

Well, a year after I received the 2-speed fixed TF and TC-hub wheels, I finally got the shifter sorted, or so I thought, and I've ridden both hubs briefly and they're pretty nice! TF gives direct and 75% (52/17 X 24.8" wheel = 76" and 57"), TC gives direct 76" and 86.5% or 66". The TF drop is like shifting from a 52 t ring to a 39 t ring while using the 17 t cog.

The TF has hardly any lash; it feels like a fixed cog and a well-adjusted chain. The TC has much more slop, but less than the annoying S3X, and the direct-to-2nd gap is far, far more useful.

The NOS TF top-tube-mount quadrant shifter pulls a shortish amount of chain and, of course, shifts the TF perfectly. I had hoped it would work as well with the TC, but that hub was modified by having a modern AW 3-spline driver replace the original 12-spline driver for which cogs are very hard to find, all of them 1/8". (I've filed modern 3-spline SA 3/32" cogs to fit the 12-spline TF driver, and I suppose I could re-swap the TC driver, but it's easier to get a new shifter, and I found a NOS SA 3 speed quadrant shifter on British eBay which I hope will arrive this month. The longer pull of the 3 speed shifter ought to allow installation and adjustment to shift the 2-speed TC and perhaps even the TF, since the cable pull from 2nd to 1st is considerably more than that from 3rd to 2nd.

Pictures soon, and more ride reports after I ride them more. But what's to report about 2 speeds???

The TC hub was rechromed nicely by a Seattle shop; the TF is 85-year-old NOS (both hubs are dated 1937), and Aaron at Rat City Bikes did the overhauls.

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[lconley]

In the meantime - a dis-assembled NOS 1972 40 hole AW and the longest axle that I could find. Just a standard 3 speed, not one of Patrick's exotic Sturmey-Archers. For the Rosco Baby. Original grease/oil was fairly petrified.

What kind of oil do you use in your SAs, Patrick?

Laing

[Patrick Moore]

I use any light-midweight oil; currently chainsaw oil because I have 3/4 of a pint but I've used 10-40 or whatever my car uses and I think even transmission fluid. FWIW, the experts say that regular motor oil is fine. I daresay that 50 weight oil in winter might be to thick; I'd not use a very thin oil like sewing machine oil. I see a bottle of Phil: That is also recommended at least by some experts.

A few years ago I pulled the almost-unused S3X out of my box to ponder what to do with it -- I dislike the lash and gear gaps (tho' setting it up for a ~90-95" High with big ring and small cog so that you get a downhill gear, a moderate cruising gear, and a better than nothing climbing gear works alright. Maybe that's how it was designed?). I had casually read somewhere about someone filling his up with grease, so I took my grease gun and did just that, with sticky auto bearing grease. Then I read that this is a stupid thingh to do. I'll have to disassemble it and clean out it if I use it again.

Is your work tray magnetic? I should get something like that; can you give product maker or link? Thanks.

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[Will Boericke]

I've taken to using ATF in AWs as well as in my Nexus 8.  I've been using 0W20 for years because I have two cars that take that.  

I just disassembled an AW and lost one of those minuscule pawl springs in the process.  Grrr.  Had to scavenge the innards from another.

Will

[lconley]

It is just an aluminum baking sheet, probably from Target.

Laing

On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 5:22:08 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

Is your work tray magnetic? I should get something like that; can you give product maker or link? Thanks.

On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 2:33 PM lconley <lco...@brph.com> wrote:

In the meantime - a dis-assembled NOS 1972 40 hole AW and the longest axle that I could find. Just a standard 3 speed, not one of Patrick's exotic Sturmey-Archers. For the Rosco Baby. Original grease/oil was fairly petrified.

What kind of oil do you use in your SAs, Patrick?

Laing

[Bill Lindsay]

So now you've got three rear wheels for this bike.  Do you expect to be swapping them in and out frequently with your daily whims?  Or do you think one will be the normal?  

Do you attribute the smaller lash on the TF to it's being NOS?  and the larger lash on the TC because it is used?

Will you use the TC predominantly and only use the TF when you are going on longer climbs?  

Why does the driver conversion on the TC influence the necessary cable pull?  

Is your sorted shifter architecture all quick change like you had planned?  How long does it take?

Is this project complete?  Or are there more stages in the works?

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Patrick Moore]

The TF and TC wheels will be occasional wheels, thus quick-on/quick-off systems; at least for now.

TC wheel for Spring winds so I can gear down from 76" to 66" without moving the chain -- tho' that's not hard with the QR axle. I may just have the wheel rebuilt as a "main" fixed wheel for the AM-hub errand bike, where I miss a fixed drivetrain.

The TF is for hillier rides. I can no longer climb Tramway to the East standing (with very short breaks) in a 76" or even 68" (19 cog on the Dingle), and there are some nice climbs to the west that are as steep or steeper tho' much shorter.

QR shifter means for now thinly taping general area for shifter and bending clamp sufficiently (doesn't take much) to install or remove; and taping ditto for the roller, but that has a 2-piece clamp so goes on and off with no bending.

I think, or thought that the TC hub requires more cable pull than the TF to shift from direct to low, and I and someone else speculated that this was because the original driver was swapped for an AW driver. So I ordered a 3-speed quadrant shifter (for same on/off routine) -- due today, in fact -- which has a longer (2nd to 1st) pull; but on more fiddling and thinking I think that the problem (TF shifter not pulling enough cable to get TC innards far enough away from neutral into low) might have been due simply to the shifter being insufficiently tightly clamped and sliding slightly on the tape. I did replace the flat head screw with an allen bolt. I will try the TC again with the TF shifter now that it's tightly in place.

One day I might simply make the TF wheel the "main" wheel, but for now the Phil Dingle is the one I'll ride most. If I do make the TF permanent, I'll probably install a trigger shifter on the bar.

The Naches Pass experiment probably has only a few days left as the (brand new) rear tire is slowly expanding with use; there is no more than 2 mm on each side at the chainstays and I expect it won't be long before it grows beyond clearing.

Lots to learn.

[Patrick Moore]

Forgot: lash: I'm still learning about the different hubs, but I did read that the minimal lash on the TF is due to the bare simplicity of the gear system due, I think in part to the "natural" 75% drop versus the slightly more complex design needed for a smaller drop. I mean to read further to find out about the 3:4 ratio and what about it requires less stuff.

That said, the TC (and the AM which has the same 86.54% drops) doesn't feel any more draggy than the TF or than a direct cog-to-hub-to-tire drive, for that matter.