Repair help needed - Stuck stem expander wedge

[SeanMac]

Hi folks,

Taking advantage of the cold weather to work on a Noodle to Albatross conversion project.  Unfortunately, it is not off to a very good start.  After removing the noodle bars, I decided to remove my stem as well.  I loosened the bolt , gave it a light wack with a rubber mallet and pulled the stem right out.  Unfortunately, the expander bolt remained inside the head tube.  Despite my best efforts I cannot remove it.

What I have tried - so far
1)  Put the stem back in place, put the bolt back, tightened things up and tried to remove it again.  Same result as before
2)  Put the bolt in (no stem) and screwed it into the expander bolt and tried to pull the wedge and the bolt out with a pair of vice grips on the bolt.  Again, no go.

At this point I am at a bit of a loss as to what to do.  My plan was to replace the stem with one that had both a longer quill and a longer extension.  However, I am guessing that if I cannot remove the wedge that I am in big trouble.

Any advice / suggestions about what to do would be appreciated.

The bike is an early 1990s Trek 520.  These are not the original parts.  The stem was likely in place for three or four years before I started fussing with it.

[Kainalu]

Some liquid wrench soaking and a stack of fender washers on top would allow you to use the bolt to pull it free from its anchor, maybe. That would get you infinitely more torque than the vice grips method. Good luck
-Kai

[Jon in the foothills of Central Colorado]

Hopefully it's caused by corrosion and the liquid wrench will break it loose. Another common problem is over tightening the stem bolt causing the steerer tube to bulge.Do you have access to the expander from the bottom of the fork?Can you remove the fork??

I use water proof marine grease on my stem and use it liberally.

Good luck with your project.

Jon

[ted]

If all else fails,
remove the wheel pull brake or rack if needed for clear access to wedge from crown end of steerer,
Flip bike with headset / top of steerer end supported on bench or blocks on floor,
Run largest drill that won't mess up steerer through wedge, the bolt hole providing a center guide,
Tap remaining bit of wedge out with long drift punch and hammer.

[jinxed]

It possible the wedge is "wedged" into the thicker butted end of the steerer. IF that's the case, going from the bottom of the fork will be the best bet. Liquid wrench is a good idea too. Several times I've had luck flipping it over, place the top nut of the HS on a block of wood, then use a long heavy punch and a decent hammer or small sledge to TAP it up through the steerer. Best done with a second set of hands to hold the bike steady. A piece of rebar would work too. Once I broke it free of the thicker steerer section it fell right out.

[Bill Lindsay]

Flip the bike over, front wheel out. Remove anything that is bolted through the crown. Thread the bolt into the wedge from the bottom and tap the wedge out with your mallet

[SeanMac]

Thanks for your suggestions on how to attack my stuck stem wedge.  The consensus certainly seems to be that I need to attack it from the bottom of the head tube.  That suggestion makes a lot of sense to me.  Unfortunately, it also means that I need to remove the front fender and [most likely] the front brake as well.  It is amazing how what began as a relatively simple, straight-forward project has become much more involved.

My plan is to purchase a Nitto Tallux stem to use on this bike, as I am looking to go both a bit taller and longer than my current stem.  Is it possible [or likely] that the stuck wedge has caused any damage to the head tube that will make this plan not work? 

Anyone have any experience with a threadless stem adaptor, such as this one sold by VO?  VO Threadless Stem Adaptor.  I have contemplating using one of these and a VO threadless stem on this project, but think that the Tallus will work even better for me.

Again, thanks for your help.

Sean

[Nikita R]

If nothing else works, check if the wedge is made of an aluminum alloy. If it is, you can dilute it with caustic soda. Only use this method as a last resort since it has several major drawbacks. First of all, caustic soda is dangerous (always work with latex gloves and protective goggles). Second, it will dilute paint/powder coat (but it will not corrode steel). Third, it will mess up any alu alloy parts that it touches (some crown race plates are made of alloys. For example Miche's crown race plate for needle bearings is made of some sort of alu alloy). Fourth, the reaction produces hydrogen which is explosive, so NEVER do it indoors.

I used this method to remove a stuck bottom bracket once. I also used it to remove a stuck wedge from Miche's expander plug. In the latter case, the plug was made of steel, but the expander ring that came with it was alu, so the method worked. BTW, that was the time when I learned that Miche's crown race plate for needle bearings is made of alu alloy:) I had to replace it after it got corroded by a few drops of caustic soda overnight.

[Kainalu]

Consensus is definitely important, from the bottom is a for sure thing. However, even if you lack appropriate big sized fender washers there's no end to things you could use between your headset and that stem bolt to apply pressure upwards and possibly free that thing without removing all that stuff that you've mentioned you'd rather not. It can't hurt. I'm all for doing things the right way, and in the end it may come down to advanced chemistry to solve the problem, but I just wanted to come to the defense of my lazy method as it may save you some time you could be spending riding your newly 'stached bicycle.
Not to sound defensive or nuthin, it actually sounds fun to drill it out.
-Kai

[ted]

Gotta agree with this. As I wrote earlier drilling it out is a when all else fails last resort. Kai's suggestion to essentially jury rig a proper puller is definitely worth a try.

[blakcloud]

Like those pesky stuck seat posts, use ammonia in the head tube to loosen the corrosion. Let is soak for the night and then use your bag of tricks to get it out. If all else fails, I like the drill suggestion the best.

Good luck and though it seems frustrating now "on this little project", it would have most likely reared it's ugly head at some point in the bikes life. Maybe it is a good thing you find the problem now instead of later.

[Bill Lindsay]

Sean

If you don't want to take apart a bunch of stuff going through the underside of the crown, then you should fashion your own wedge puller.  

1.  Thread your stem bolt two or three rotations into your stuck wedge.  
2.  Measure the distance from the top of the headset lock nut to the bottom edge of the head of your stem bolt. Call that distance X

3.  Find a block of wood that is X thick.  Stack up a couple pieces of wood if necessary.  

4.  Drill a hole through your block of wood just big enough that the stem bolt can pass through

5.  Put the block on top of your headset lock nut.  

6.  Slide the stem bolt through the hole with a big flat washer to act as a bearing surface

7.  Thread the stem bolt into your stuck wedge.  As you tighten the bolt, you'll extract your wedge.

8.  If it is stuck all the way up, and you run out of threads on your bolt, you might need to stack up more flat washers

Take advantage of the fact that your wedge is already threaded.  That's what threads are good for.

[Ron Mc]

drop the fork? 

[Bill Lindsay]

Ron

I don't know what you mean by your question.  Maybe you are asking:

"Hey Bill, is it necessary to remove the fork from your bicycle before executing those recommended steps?"

If that's your question, then then answer is:  No, it is not necessary to remove the fork before executing those recommended steps.

It's not necessary

[Ron Mc]

actually wasn't to you Bill, was just considering dropping the fork as a way to make handling the stuck wedge problem easier.  Carrying around a fork with a stuck wedge is a whole lot easier than carrying around a bike with a stuck wedge

[Bill Lindsay]

OK, so your question:

"drop the fork?"

translates to:

"Sean, before going and hiring a shop or other professional to remove your wedge for you, let me suggest you might want to remove the fork from the bicycle, because a fork by itself is more portable than a complete bicycle.  It will save you some effort"

I get it now.  :-)

[JohnS]

I've had my share of 10 minute bike projects turn into 3 hour late into the night projects. Good thing I'm not on the clock and that I'm doing it for fun.

JohnS

[SeanMac]

Good news - my wedge is no longer stuck!

At the suggestion of Bill (and implied by several others), I cut a board that would fit over the head tube.  I drilled a hole in the board that was large enough for the stem bolt.  Then I simply screwed the bolt into the wedge and kept screwing until the wedge "unstuck itself" and I could pull it right out of the head tube.  This was an easy solution to my problem, and certainly less work than pulling off the fenders, brakes, etc.

The next step in the process for me is a new stem.  I will be placing an order from Rivendell today before the 6% off coupon expires.  I need to decide whether to order a 25.4 clamp to go with my albatross bars (which was the point of this little project) or to order a 26.0 clamp.  I have a sham to use the larger stem with my albatross bars.  Getting the bigger size also allows me to switch back to the noodles at some point if I decide that the albatross bars are not for me.  However, a 25.4 clamp size without a shim would be a better fit for the albatross bars.  What to do, what to do?

Thanks for all of the help with my stuck stem wedge.

Sean

[Bill Lindsay]

Terrific news, Sean.  I'm really glad that worked for you.  Good job!  

[David Hays]

Great news. Nice to have that out of the way.

I’d suggest the 25.4 stem which will take a wide variety of bars and leave you the option of switching in the noodle anytime.

David