Why no Atlantis double TT?

[opa...@gmail.com]

I didn't search much for this information, but I couldn't find it on Riv's site anyway..  It appears that nearly all of the currently available framesets are available with a double top tube in largish sizes, except Atlantis.  Is there a reason for this? For instance, why would one need a double TT on an 63cm AHH,  a 60cm Sam Hillborne, a 59cm San Marcos, etc. but not on a 61cm Atlantis?  Are Atlantis' made with stronger tubing?  If not, then I don't understand what the 2nd top tube is for in these cases.  The statement is made on the Soma description that a 2TT "add(s) strength, stiffness, and reduc(es) fatigue."  This seems like something you'd want on a fully loaded tourer, and not a "sporty road bike"..?  Not trying to pick a fight, I'm just curious - I own a 61cm Atlantis, by the way.

Cheers,
Robert

[Seth Vidal]

I suspect the atlantis is the all-time best seller for riv, I'm not
sure of that but, I suspect the idea is you don't screw with something
which is working.

-sv

[Jeremy Till]

I think it's mostly because the Atlantis was designed in the pre-DTT days and Grant et al are probably loathe to mess with one of their most consistent sellers, a bike they have said they intend to keep making "forever."

In one of the most recent readers Grant did have a short blurb about "retrofitting" a DTT to an (his?) Atlantis by strapping a mitered dowel between the seat and headtubes.

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

I have a 61cm Atlantis, which I rode for a tour in the Adirondacks with pretty heavy full camping gear, and it performed beautifully uphill and down -- my assessment would be that no additional stiffness or strength is needed.  And though I have a Bombadil, I like the conventional single top tube on my Atlantis.

---

From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Till
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 11:35 AM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: Why no Atlantis double TT?

I think it's mostly because the Atlantis was designed in the pre-DTT days and Grant et al are probably loathe to mess with one of their most consistent sellers, a bike they have said they intend to keep making "forever."

In one of the most recent readers Grant did have a short blurb about "retrofitting" a DTT to an (his?) Atlantis by strapping a mitered dowel between the seat and headtubes.

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[Steve Palincsar]

On Mon, 2011-09-12 at 08:23 -0700, opa...@gmail.com wrote:
> I didn't search much for this information, but I couldn't find it on
> Riv's site anyway.. It appears that nearly all of the currently
> available framesets are available with a double top tube in largish
> sizes, except Atlantis. Is there a reason for this?

I'm so tempted to reply, "Folie à deux"...

> For instance, why would one need a double TT on an 63cm AHH, a 60cm
> Sam Hillborne, a 59cm San Marcos, etc. but not on a 61cm Atlantis?

You do not. Those frames were already more than stiff enough without
the 2nd top tube. They would have been just fine if made with standard,
rather than oversized tubing, in my opinion.

[cyclot...@gmail.com]

Shhhhhhh, don't plant the idea...

[William]

There are a lot of answers to that question.  The 61 Atlantis doesn't need a second top tube, that's a fact.  The objective reason it doesn't is that a 61cm Atlantis has a much shorter headtube than the other bikes you mention.  The reason a 61 Atlantis has a much shorter headtube is that the Atlantis has a much flatter top tube.  All those +6 degree top tube bikes (San Marcos, Hillborne, Bombadil) have very tall headtubes in the sizes you reference.  Your 61cm Atlantis has a pretty triangular frame still, so doesn't need it as much.  It is consistent that Rivendell stopped offering the Atlantis in huge sizes, nudging those customers to the Bombadil, which does have the 2TT.  The 61 and 63 Hilsens have it as an option, as I understand it, I assume the deciding factor being rider weight and aesthetics.  

Many here on this group think the 2tt is flat out ugly, stupid and unnecessary.  Others think it's beautiful and distinctive and smart.  Still more think it is a benign self-indulgence.  Nobody, to my knowledge is either selling a Rivendell to replace it with a 2TT model, nor is anyone rushing to have a 2TT installed on their bike.  The 2TT is causing some potential buyers not to buy, and that's kind of a shame, but so it goes. 

[dougP]

My guess is the Atlantis has thicker wall tubing than the other
designs, and would not benefit from adding another top tube. Riv has
stated that the Atlantis frame & fork weigh roughly a pound more than
their other bikes. It's been billed as their most versatile bike,
capable of use as a loaded tourer, commuter, MTB, etc. The design, as-
is, meets its intended purposes.

Personally, I've over-loaded mine with more junk than I need, gone
down dirt fire roads fast enough to scare myself, dragged it onto
trains, packed & shipped it by air & truck, and haven't hurt a thing
(paint excluded!). Why mess with success?

dougP

[Thomas Lynn Skean]

On Monday, September 12, 2011 11:45:52 AM UTC-5, William wrote:

 

Many here on this group think the 2tt is flat out ugly, stupid and unnecessary.  Others think it's beautiful and distinctive and smart.  Still more think it is a benign self-indulgence.  Nobody, to my knowledge is either selling a Rivendell to replace it with a 2TT model, nor is anyone rushing to have a 2TT installed on their bike.  The 2TT is causing some potential buyers not to buy, and that's kind of a shame, but so it goes. 

 

I basically agree with that. Ironically, though, it was only the initial introduction of the "under-tube" on the Hillborne that pushed me to pursue a Hillborne (or a Rivendell of any kind) when I did. Subsequent to my ordering one, it looked briefly like the under-tube was *not* going to be available soon. I did *not* cancel my order; precisely because I don't think the Hillborne "needs" an undertube in general. But if it's a benefit for anyone, it's a benefit for me (fat, upright, loaded daily... with gear, not beer). So I was very happy to see it made available again. And happy to take delivery of one.

 

So happy, in fact, having ridden that one for thousands of miles since, that I'm now expecting to get a second one next year. Fortune favoring the foolish, it will not be *completely* identical as they have changed the color. But I did make a point to put one on lay-away that's just like my current one: double-top-tubed and canti-studded and proven reliable.

 

Yours,

Thomas Lynn Skean

 

[Scott G.]

I had a 61cm Gen 1 Atlantis, never noticed a lack of stiffness or
unplanned planning in that bike. ;-)

I do like the looks of the Ant bike Truss model, very cool.

http://antbikemike.wordpress.com/bicycle-catagories/truss-bike/

[Kelly Sleeper]

It was my understanding that the AHH did not get 2tt till 69cm and larger.

I do know that no tour bike ever in my past was as stable as my 2tt Bombadil. Even with full load of 70 plus pounds in the bags and my 220.

When a bike performs above and beyond expectations I find it hard to fault. No other single top tube bike ever compared or was able to have no noodle feeling when standing with the load.

I think to much about nothing is made of the 2tt myself. Especially considering what the bikes are made for.

Kelly

[charlie]

I don't question Grant's decisions on frame design.....I'm certainly
no expert and I have virtually no experience designing, building,
marketing, selling, servicing or warranting bicycle frames. What I do
have is the ability to read and some common sense. Go Grant!

[erik jensen]

i haven't broken my single tt 66cm atlantis yet.

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[Joe Bernard]

Let's see..it never had one, and if it did now, we would be asking why we should by this 2tt bike over that 2tt bike, so..

[Larry Powers]

Nice reply, I was going to say that the Atlantis is such a pretty bike why make it butt ugly with double top tubes.  Just my opinion.

Larry Powers
 
Get a bicycle.  You will not regret it if you live. - Mark Twain

 

> Subject: Re: [RBW] Why no Atlantis double TT?
> From: pali...@his.com
> To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 11:48:00 -0400